Quit Revamp

[wizturbo]

Most of the time it isn't an "emergency" I just need to go, so I feel bad wishing up.  If the staff truly don't mind if players do this, then I'll use that option and stop whining about this :-)

[SMuz]

If you feel that you are going to be severely impacted by your internet connection or real life on a regular basis during your allotted Armageddon time, you should tailor your roles to that.  If you want to play in the wilderness and end up out there on a regular basis, play a ranger (you can quit anywhere).  If you want to play in the cities, know where the quit locations are.  The more socially-based your character, the better (less likely that you'll end up too far from a quit room).  If you know you have to leave in X time, then don't do stuff that will take longer than that.

I think this is what aggravates me the most. "If you can't find the time to play, then don't play outside with a non-ranger." It is the primary reason why I'm not logging in right now. It's why I go for long periods of time without logging in. I don't like devoting 30 minutes to a game that's just supposed to be a break from RL.

Playing in cities off peak basically just means "sit in the tavern all day long", because any other action would get my character killed.

So, the least dangerous strategy is to simply not play. Like with wizturbo, sometimes I just want to do other things, like watch the Simpsons on TV, and it sucks that I can't forage a bit in the 10 mins until then. I think if I kept wishing up for 'emergencies' that way, I'd end up being no-wished or told to play a ranger.

In the end, I just stop logging in until I get bored with playing a non-ranger/non-rinthi, and store.

[BleakOne]

Maybe inside each of the main gates of each city could be quit rooms, to help those who want to duck out with less than 30 mins to play?

[SMuz]

Maybe inside each of the main gates of each city could be quit rooms, to help those who want to duck out with less than 30 mins to play?

The stables usually function as a quit room, but I would really appreciate this for the gates that are far away from stables.

[Reiloth]

I find the lack of limitations with Ranger liberating.

Being able to quit at anytime is definitely in the top 3 reasons why i'm a Ranger fanboi now.

[Marshmellow]

What, so because you can't find it in you to play a character without ranger quit but you don't want to play rangers, the game should be changed to suit you now?  Play what works for you as a player, and your playtimes/habits should be taken into consideration for this along with the consideration of what you enjoy playing.  If you want to play an outdoor character that can quit out whenever, learn the terrain to find quit rooms or play a ranger.  Adapt instead of ask that the game adapt to you.

[My 2 sids]

Change Ranger to be able to sleep undisturbed then (as in, they know how to be secure when they make camp)

But, give everyone the option of quitting wherever. 

[NOFUN]

Change Ranger to be able to sleep undisturbed then (as in, they know how to be secure when they make camp)

But, give everyone the option of quitting wherever.  

But then a warrior/scavenger could do everything a ranger could do, only better.
I think everything is fine as it is. A warrior wouldn't have the know how or the will to sleep outdoors, I think it's already generous that there's outdoor log out spots for every one to use.

Just as a ranger/pickpocker shouldn't be able to beat a warrior in a fight, a warrior shouldn't be able to survive in the wilds (for long periods of time)

Though I would like to see a feature that allows a ranger to log out other pc's in the wilderness, so that they become more valuable in exploration.

EDIT: If you want to explore, spend at lot of time outside city states but don't play often, play a ranger. Or stay in the cities and be a family man.

[My 2 sids]

Then how about making the main roads quit friendly?   

Here's the thing:  more than rangers travel -- merchants, armies, traveling entertainers... all use the main road

And I'm sorry, simply by being human I think there should be at lease a little common sense when it comes to figuring out where to stay the night.

[Marshmellow]

Actually, NOFUN, a warrior/scav can NOT do everything a ranger can.  In fact, not even close.

[NOFUN]

Then how about making the main roads quit friendly?  

Here's the thing:  more than rangers travel -- merchants, armies, traveling entertainers... all use the main road

And I'm sorry, simply by being human I think there should be at lease a little common sense when it comes to figuring out where to stay the night.

But see, the difference between a ranger and armies is that armies generally consist of more than one person which may very well have a ranger or two in it's ranks, and the key thing to remember here is lots of people do die in travel. A ranger, on the other hand would use his/her smarts to survive. Armies generally have food preprepared for travel. Two or three PC warriors aren't going to last too long, assuming the storms, or creatures of the wilderness don't get them then starvation or lack of water will. Rangers are allowed to log outside because it's assumed they know how to gather food/water.

As for merchants and entertainers:

Rangers are usually the second easiest persons to employ, next to
warriors. Any traveller would be a fool to neglect to take a ranger along
as a guide, and good rangers can make large sums of money in this
profession.

I think that implies that most NPC merchants hire NPC rangers for travel, and that any lone merchant wouldn't make it too far. And of course, it's not uncommon to hear of a PC dying whilst trying to get from allanak to tuluk or vise versa. I'm sure NPC's would die just as often, if not more so. The dangers of the wilds is generally why tourism doesn't exist, or rather is very rare IGly.

[NOFUN]

Then how about making the main roads quit friendly?   

Here's the thing:  more than rangers travel -- merchants, armies, traveling entertainers... all use the main road

And I'm sorry, simply by being human I think there should be at lease a little common sense when it comes to figuring out where to stay the night.

And I'm sorry, simply by being human I think there should be at lease a little common sense when it comes to figuring out where to stay the night.

As for this argument, there is. They're the log out spots that everyone can use in the wilderness.

[Nyr]

If you feel that you are going to be severely impacted by your internet connection or real life on a regular basis during your allotted Armageddon time, you should tailor your roles to that.  If you want to play in the wilderness and end up out there on a regular basis, play a ranger (you can quit anywhere).  If you want to play in the cities, know where the quit locations are.  The more socially-based your character, the better (less likely that you'll end up too far from a quit room).  If you know you have to leave in X time, then don't do stuff that will take longer than that.

I think this is what aggravates me the most. "If you can't find the time to play, then don't play outside with a non-ranger." It is the primary reason why I'm not logging in right now. It's why I go for long periods of time without logging in. I don't like devoting 30 minutes to a game that's just supposed to be a break from RL.

That's not what I said.  A better paraphrase would be, "If you know that real life is going to regularly impact your playing, play roles that suit that and delve into game knowledge that suits that."  You can play any role with any amount of time, but this game does require a certain amount of time management, even if negligible.  I think it's fair to say that this game can be for those with limited time to play, but they will have to be the ones to yield to the restrictions of the game, not the other way around.  If you KNOW you have 20 minutes to play (you seem to imply 30 minutes is too much to ask, so we'll go with 20), then you have to manage your time wisely.  If you're playing a non-ranger but want to go outside and hunt/forage something briefly, just outside of Allanak or Tuluk or Luir's, aim for daytime play hours (between dawn and dusk).  Storms in these areas are almost never too terrible for you to navigate.  Equip yourself with proper desert-traveling gear.  You can make it from a stable in either city-state and Luir's to the gates and to a reasonable hunting or foraging area in short order.  Limit your hunting to one or two targets as it is (a couple of reasons for this, but for the benefit of considering RL/OOC first, there is a combat timer that will last about 10 minutes after you cease combat).  Limit your foraging to a certain amount that allows you to get back inside the walls without resting first (if unmounted).  You get back in, stow away your beast (if applicable) and quit out as soon as you can.  (This all assumes you don't run into trouble, either PC-based or otherwise.  This can happen, and at some point, it very well might happen.  This is an RPI; other players are involved, and you can't control what they do.)

I managed to do something similar for a while with a ranger in Red Storm.  I enjoyed the role.  I didn't have much time to play it, but had some degree of control over what times those would be.  I'd keep an eye on the Armageddon time, and then be sure to log in around dawn and go see if it was stormy out.  If my ranger (actually, ranger doesn't really matter to this scenario--I still returned to the tavern/apartment when done playing because I didn't want to log in to a storm in which I could not see...besides, some subguilds get direction sense, and some equipment helps) couldn't even see well enough to see anything to hunt, I'd chill in the tavern, go look for things to buy, see if I could find a PC lingering around.  Due to my own limited playtimes, role choice, and location choice, I accepted that some things were going to be difficult.

Playing in cities off peak basically just means "sit in the tavern all day long", because any other action would get my character killed.

This is a fallacious argument.  You can buy things.  You can talk to people between places.  You can kill people and NOT die.  You can steal things and NOT die.  You can do many things besides sit on your ass in a city tavern.  Assuming you only have twenty minutes, try to play at night with a shady sort of character and do shady things.  Granted, you only have twenty minutes; you won't be able to roleplay things out so much, kill people with any degree of roleplay surrounding it (except a frenzied bit of emotive typing), steal from people with more than cursory hemotes, etc.  This is a limitation imposed by your limited time, not by the game.

So, the least dangerous strategy is to simply not play. Like with wizturbo, sometimes I just want to do other things, like watch the Simpsons on TV, and it sucks that I can't forage a bit in the 10 mins until then. I think if I kept wishing up for 'emergencies' that way, I'd end up being no-wished or told to play a ranger.

You're right.  If you wished up telling us you were out foraging and had to leave right now to watch the Simpsons because you knew you only had 10 minutes to play the game, we'd tell you to stop your whining and play a role suited to your limited time (or manage your limited time more wisely), then log you out.  (Alternatively, we might welcome you technologically to the past few years and introduce you to free services like Hulu or one-time purchases like a Tivo or other devices.)  If you only have 10 minutes to play, use those 10 minutes to flesh out some solo-RP with your character, maybe grab a bar conversation, etc.  You can MAYBE get out of a city and forage, but that's dicey.  You can't go hunt even if you were a ranger--you'd still have to wait the 10 minutes for the combat timer to go away.  The point to take away from this is not "staff is shitting all over my limited time to play the game," but "staff expect those with limited time to play the game to put in some effort in the time-management department."

In the end, I just stop logging in until I get bored with playing a non-ranger/non-rinthi, and store.

If your time is so tight that you only have 10 minutes to play or can't/don't want to invest even 30 minutes into the game at one sitting (and can't or won't play rangers or city-based roles?), then this behavior is unsurprising.

[drunkendwarf]

Actually, NOFUN, a warrior/scav can NOT do everything a ranger can.  In fact, not even close.

+1

I grow tired of the "But this is gonna nerf rangers!!" argument. The point here is for playability. Yes while people are free to chose a ranger for their class if they want to play an outdoor character, folks forget a large chunk of character concepts where it flat out is not an option to play a ranger - magickers. Tell me exactly how I play an outdoor magicker character concept as a ranger, please. I've argued before there should be a subguild that allows you to quit out in some form or fashion (with a tent, whatever) in the wilds. I will put forth that argument again. I don't care if that's the only thing that you get from that subguild - I can think of plenty of my characters that I would have picked that with.
I just don't like being locked down to a class to fit a concept I have, simply for playability reasons. Rangers get so many other things that show their ability to survive in the wilds, and to me quitting out is a matter of OOC playability, and shouldn't have anything to do with being tied a class.

[NOFUN]

Actually, NOFUN, a warrior/scav can NOT do everything a ranger can.  In fact, not even close.

+1

I grow tired of the "But this is gonna nerf rangers!!" argument. The point here is for playability. Yes while people are free to chose a ranger for their class if they want to play an outdoor character, folks forget a large chunk of character concepts where it flat out is not an option to play a ranger - magickers. Tell me exactly how I play an outdoor magicker character concept as a ranger, please. I've argued before there should be a subguild that allows you to quit out in some form or fashion (with a tent, whatever) in the wilds. I will put forth that argument again. I don't care if that's the only thing that you get from that subguild - I can think of plenty of my characters that I would have picked that with.
I just don't like being locked down to a class to fit a concept I have, simply for playability reasons. Rangers get so many other things that show their ability to survive in the wilds, and to me quitting out is a matter of OOC playability, and shouldn't have anything to do with being tied a class.

If you're sick of hearing the ranger nerf argument than try offering something that isn't "Waaah I want my PC to be able to kill twenty gith like only a warrior/magicker could and explore the world like only a ranger could"

Rangers get so many other things that show their ability to survive in the wilds,and to me quitting out is a matter of OOC playability, and shouldn't have anything to do with being tied a class.

The reason commoners tolerate the oppression of the templarate is because it's safer inside a city state than in the wilds. Your commoner isn't going to set up camp outside of the walls just because he/she feels like it, infact if your character has had very little experience with the wilds he/she is going to do everything he/she can do to avoid it. The wilds are supposed to be dangerous. If rangers get so many cool things then play one. Your commoner shouldn't be going into the wilds to find shit on there own, that's why rangers even exist. Don't know where the log out rooms are? Tough shit.

magickers. Tell me exactly how I play an outdoor magicker character concept as a ranger, please.

You don't. Magickers are over populated as it is, the last thing they need is the cool skills that are exclusive to mundanes. Magickers can conjure food, water and some don't even need mounts because they have some kind of magick that lets them move from place to place easily. The problem with magickers being able to quit outside is that every single PC mage would go rogue.

I promise you, if every one was able to quit outside rangers would become rarer than merchants, you say they get all these cool things but the only things that spring to mind are foraging for food/poison/sneak (Which an assassin can do all of, anyway) if rangers did have things that are seemingly as OP as you make them out to be this thread wouldn't even exist as every one would be a ranger.

City-states are supposed to be prisons. It should be very rare for anyone to leave, let alone spending weeks outside of the walls. You want that super rare gem that can only be found at the other side of the known world? Hire a ranger to get it for you.

[Xeran Van Houten]

It has been discussed a few times even on staff side; it is not something we are going to put in for Arm 1.

This will be possible for Reborn.

[jhunter]

Actually, NOFUN, a warrior/scav can NOT do everything a ranger can.  In fact, not even close.

+1

I grow tired of the "But this is gonna nerf rangers!!" argument. The point here is for playability. Yes while people are free to chose a ranger for their class if they want to play an outdoor character, folks forget a large chunk of character concepts where it flat out is not an option to play a ranger - magickers. Tell me exactly how I play an outdoor magicker character concept as a ranger, please. I've argued before there should be a subguild that allows you to quit out in some form or fashion (with a tent, whatever) in the wilds. I will put forth that argument again. I don't care if that's the only thing that you get from that subguild - I can think of plenty of my characters that I would have picked that with.
I just don't like being locked down to a class to fit a concept I have, simply for playability reasons. Rangers get so many other things that show their ability to survive in the wilds, and to me quitting out is a matter of OOC playability, and shouldn't have anything to do with being tied a class.

A Survivalist subguild? I -love- that idea. I have to say I like that idea better than any other sugggested.
Survivalists excel in surviving in the wilds. They are better than average at navigating through storms, finding food, and camping out in the wilds.
Skills- Increased Forage (ability to forage for food), Increased Direction Sense, and the ability to quit in any outdoor rooms.

[NOFUN]

Nerf everything I don't use.

Also I was wondering if my ranger could have the steal skill, since it is something that everyone should be capable of doing right?

[jhunter]

Don't be a troll.

[NOFUN]

Don't be a troll.

Not trolling. Giving an honest opinion.

If your pickpocket can log-off outside with a tent why can't my ranger steal? After all, they're both something every human is capable of doing.

Oh, right. My ranger would get caught every time because my ranger hasn't had any experience stealing.
A pickpocket can survive in the wilderness because.. well.. oh.

[Kalai]

Don't be a troll.

Not trolling. Giving an honest opinion.

If your pickpocket can log-off outside with a tent why can't my ranger steal? After all, they're both something every human is capable of doing.

Oh, right. My ranger would get caught every time because my ranger hasn't had any experience stealing.
A pickpocket can survive in the wilderness because.. well.. oh.

I'm pretty sure it's possible to steal with a ranger, just a tad trickier to set up.  

(You know, putting the arrow in the right spot of the back and all.)

[jhunter]

Correct, it is possible to steal with a character of any guild already. You just have to use the proper subguild.

[NOFUN]

Correct, it is possible to steal with a character of any guild already. You just have to use the proper subguild.

That's the thief sub-guild. Not the ranger guild.
The main argument for letting every one log off outside is that everyone is capable of setting up a tent, but on the other side of the coin every one is capable of stealing, bartering and sneaking. I mean, I could go outside right now and attempt to slip something from some ones pocket. Probably wouldn't succeed, but I could still try. In Armageddon mud, you're just frozen with the "you quietly approach your target" message forever.

Kind of seems like double standards if everyone is able to log off because they go inside a tent and then it's just assumed the animals of the wilderness just leave them alone and they happen to have a unlimited pile of food+water (Since your character is still in the games world while you're offline)  but my ranger can't steal because I did not choose the thief sub-guild.

[jhunter]

A Survivalist subguild? I -love- that idea. I have to say I like that idea better than any other sugggested.
Survivalists excel in surviving in the wilds. They are better than average at navigating through storms, finding food, and camping out in the wilds.
Skills- Increased Forage (ability to forage for food), Increased Direction Sense, and the ability to quit in any outdoor rooms.

This is the idea that I was referring to.

[Kalai]

Correct, it is possible to steal with a character of any guild already. You just have to use the proper subguild.

That's the thief sub-guild. Not the ranger guild.
The main argument for letting every one log off outside is that everyone is capable of setting up a tent, but on the other side of the coin every one is capable of stealing, bartering and sneaking. I mean, I could go outside right now and attempt to slip something from some ones pocket. Probably wouldn't succeed, but I could still try. In Armageddon mud, you're just frozen with the "you quietly approach your target" message forever.

Kind of seems like double standards if everyone is able to log off because they go inside a tent and then it's just assumed the animals of the wilderness just leave them alone and they happen to have a unlimited pile of food+water (Since your character is still in the games world while you're offline)  but my ranger can't steal because I did not choose the thief sub-guild.

When you think about it, assuming no one steals from you and you have plenty to eat and drink when you're homeless and logging off in the Gaj sleeping area is a bit of a stretch as well.