Where do slaves come from?

[Anonymous]

Creeper who still feels a slave is an object, not a person, certainly not a commoner.

Creeper brings up an interesting point.  If slaves are not commoners, what are they then? I always thought that's where they came from, they certainly aren't noble leftovers... are they?

[Dracul]

PROPTERY.


It's been stated as that already, becoming a slave you are no longer a commoner, but property.

[DrunkenSalarr]

Slaves come from at least two places.  They are either born into slavery from at least one slave parent, or they were from some other class of people and brought into slavery.

[Anonymous]

Slaves come from at least two places.  They are either born into slavery from at least one slave parent, or they were from some other class of people and brought into slavery.

What kinds of other people are there?
Anything not of noble birth is a commoner, correct? Anyone who lives in the city who is not one of the Chosen or one of the Faitful (or a lord/templar in Allanak) would be considered a commoner.

Slavery had to have been started in the same manner it was started here in the modern world, the oppresors took over the meek and usable and eventually, there were people born into slavery, but the fact remains that they were, in fact, commoners.

[Rindan]

Slaves are generally born slaves.  A slave that is born a slave is generally the best slave, as it has no notion of not being a slave.  That said, it does happen where free people are enslaved.  Generally, this is not done to the general population.  It is usually that slaves are captured from tribal cultures on slaving runs.  These slaves are generally not the type you see a noble dragging around.  Slaves that are not born slaves generally are either used as breeders or to do hard manual labor, like work in the obsidian mines.  Criminals also at times become slaves, though they are almost always used as obsidian mine slaves.

[DrunkenSalarr]

What kinds of other people are there?
Anything not of noble birth is a commoner, correct? Anyone who lives in the city who is not one of the Chosen or one of the Faitful (or a lord/templar in Allanak) would be considered a commoner.

There are tribals and savages that don't count as commoners.

[Anonymous]

There are tribals and savages that don't count as commoners.

They are indeed commoners if they step foot inside a city and will be given no noble like treatment simply because they are tribals.  Try again.  Anything not noble of birth, is a commoner.  :wink:

They are indeed commoners if they step foot inside a city and will be given no noble like treatment simply because they are tribals. Try again. Anything not noble of birth, is a commoner.

I don't agree here, they're just savages when they enter the city, and should be treated with even -less- respect than commoners get, since they contribute nothing to the city, and simply use it as a tool for their own benefit.

But you're right in that I don't think these kinds of slaves would be used for pleasure slaves, like has been said. I would imagine all pleasure slaves would be bred that way.

[Angela Christine]

The noble/commoner distinction only applies in cities.  Some tribes might call certain members of their tribe king, princess, Son of the Sun, or the Big Pooba, but that "nobility" will not be recognised in most of the cities.  

A missing element in this discussion is Citizenship.  A noble citizen won't be enslaved.  A commoner citizen would usually only be enslaved as punishment for a crime, and part would also lose his citizenship, so he would no longer be be a commoner citizen.  Tribals and other people from outside your city/empire are neither Noble Citizens nor Commoner Citzens, they are forigners or savages.  

If I am a Commoner Citizen of Allanak and I'm wandering around hunting in the wilderness, then a slaver band could capture me and try to sell me in Tuluk or possibly Luir's Outpost, but if they tried to sell me in Allanak the law "should" protect me because I am a citizen.  In Tuluk I'm not a Citizen Commoner, I'm a Foriegn commoner, and the law will treat me more harshly.

AC

Here is my take on Slavery in Zalanthas. It may be incorrect, because I've only had real communicative contact with two slave PCs ever, only the occassional NPC slave on the streets, and have never seen an enslaving take place. This is all just my view and ideals formed from hearing things, and just figuring against the model that is Zalanthas.

Slaves are property. There really isn't debating that. Their real-life counterparts were, and that is a great place to learn about slavery in-game.

The system of slavery perpetuates itself through either free, encouraged, or forced breeding. A noble house with a slavery stable might actually have certain 'higher quality' slaves set aside solely as breeding for their stock. Which they then might mix and mingle with outside purchased slaves, etc.

Like I heard somewhere that it's pretty hard to breed a Mulish slave, because Muls themselves are sterile, (mul is pronouced Mule, like the sterile real-life counterpart). Anyways, that's a bit of track, but shows that there is probably a lot of low-tech, mysterious science stuff going on, maybe even magick, who knows. I dont.

So back on track. It's assumed that a good portion of slaves come from a Stable owned by some noble house. Which is either domestically raised, or fortified with captures, prisoners, sold-off children of hard pressed commoners, etc. All that doesn't really matter, just the fact that there is a large amount of people-property under a noble-house.

This people property is then sold. Either in auctions, or private, or by inquiry. Possibly to other stables to fortify their gene pool. But usually a slave sold to an individual will either be enslaved for life and then die, or possibly used for children, or even set free.

Back to the very original question: If they are not commoners? What are tehy? Well they are lower then commoners in some cases. Noble-slaves would probably be above commoners in the social rungs, but most-likely denied very many of the rights that commoners are allowed, or think they are allowed. While a noble slave might be used to receiving decent food, cleaning and maintaining themselves to their master's standards, (something a commoner might not be able), they can't just go anywhere they want, or own anything, like a commoner could.

So while a commoner is lower socially then a slave, a slave might actually be treated better.... in -some- cases. In others slaves are horribly abused work-horses of their master(s). Cleaning muck, making roads, working mines. These are usually not the property of nobles, but the property of either Templarate, (north and south alike), set to do the many tasks that need doing... for little pay. They can be starved, beaten if they do badly, worked to death. And then just replaced.

But I imagine Templarate stables are far cheaper then a noble stable. Templarate slaves probably encompass alot of former prisoners, captured enemies, and are probably alot of times bound or underwatch, whereas a noble slave might be given a task to go do something for their master and not actually be under constant watch or supervision during the duty.

So summarizing...
Slaves can come from:
-Other slaves.
-Wars.
-Jails.
-Commoners that need money.
-Or a commoner that displeased a noble greatly.
-or some other cases that I might be missing

Slaves perpetuate by:
-Breeding- forced, encouraged, let free to breed.
-or something else I'm missing.

Anyways, as I said this is just my opinion. Could be wrong, or partially wrong.

[Commoner]

Main Entry: com·mon·er
Pronunciation: 'kä-m&-n&r
Function: noun
Date: 14th century
1 a : one of the common people
b : one who is not of noble rank
2 : a student (as at Oxford) who pays for his own board

That would mean tribals and savages.   :wink:

Main Entry: com·mon·er
Pronunciation: 'kä-m&-n&r
Function: noun
Date: 14th century
1 a : one of the common people
b : one who is not of noble rank
2 : a student (as at Oxford) who pays for his own board

An Allanaki Commoner would be:
1 a : one of the common people of Allanak.
b : one who is not of noble rank, in Allanak.

But even without looking it up, a 'commoner' would almost firstly be answered as 'one who is common' or 'one of the common' which happens to be the first, i.e. best, definition of the word. Its also inferred with a little common-sense. As: common + er, just like outside + er, is "one from outside" or some such.

So to be common, you'd have to be a part of the majority of the populace being viewed. So a commoner, in the case of Allanak would be the poor, hungry, citizenry, working class people. Not the slaves. Slaves are not as common as normal people.

Some -could- argue that there are more slaves then normal citizenry, thus making them the majority, and the actual commoners. Thereby making this whole thread tedious...

But -I- and everyone in my house that I've asked considers a commoner someone who is common.

[FiveDisgruntledMonkeysWit]

Look, Commoners -are- enslaved. And they are used. You don't enslave some one unless you have use for them, right? Granted, most are thrown into the arena to be impaled, while others thrown into obsidian mines to inhale tiny crystal shards and die of lung abrasions, but I'm sure -some- commoner, -somewhere- in the North was -sometime- used as a slave with a lifespan of over a year. Granted, it would have been something degrading or manual... Chamber pot cleaner? Field worker? Foot stool? Builder? Fire poker?

Slaves have to start somewhere. Those pure-breed slaves were commoners at some point in their lineage...

If there is an argument as to how risky a slave would be if they weren't born into the role, I have one magic little word for you... Brainwashing. In RL, we have suicide cults that tell people they'll be happy if they kill themselves. I'm sure breaking down someone's self esteem to the point where they believe they are chattle will be no biggie. It's (possibley) cheaper than that pedigree mul, and hey, it works. A The Royal Bootlicker or Food Taster doesn't really need to be skilled, does he?

[creeper386]

Creeper brings up an interesting point. If slaves are not commoners, what are they then? I always thought that's where they came from, they certainly aren't noble leftovers... are they?

Slaves may have once been commoners, or have commoner blood. They might have once been tribles, or of tribal blood. They may even have noble blood in them. It doesn't matter, they are slaves. For all intentions slaves are in a class of their own. They are no longer tribals, no longer commoners, they are slaves. Rather it is above, or below their original position can be in question(And normally depends on WHO owns them) it shouldn't be in question that they are now slaves. Slaves are people that are owned. Therefor they are property. This makes them different from commoners, who for all basic purposes, are free people. Big distinction.


Creeper, who well say this is probably the farthest from any sort of official Staff stance, and anything said within shouldn't be considered correct.

[spawnloser]

Well, documentation does back you up, creeper.