Surnames?

[Erythil]

Would it be simply ostentatious for a commoner to style themselves with a surname, or outright treasonous?

Would be acceptable to use a father's first name in the style of a surname?

I had a thought about making a character with the full complicated gamut of Arabic names, with the 'ibn' and the 'al' and what all else...thought it might be fun in a world full of people with only one name.

[Cindy42]

i've heard surnames, and kuraci family has honorifics at the end of their names... and the families of gmh have that name (kadius, etc) as their last name. i've seen a commoner with a last name. i just don't have them, they're too complicated for peeps that will die in a real life week's time most of the time.

[musashi]

Two words.

Gage. Gritshaw.

[valeria]

I think surnames are fine.

But we already have 'al Surname' to denote specific tribes (ie, al Seik) so if you were going to go that route, I would say you should be a tribal and it should refer to your tribe name.

[boog]

I would assume that most people have had a shitty enough life that they don't care where they come from, but are more concerned with the present and the name they'll be addressed by. Who would want to be called Slimy McSmellyballs when you could just go around as Slimy and when McSmellyballs are known to be a drunken, good for nothing lot?

I think it's more important in tribal cultures, at least it seems that way. And city elves, too, according to the docs!

But really, I think whatever you think is fine enough for the game.

[HavokBlue]

If you have a valid reason for it, I don't see why not. Commoner families exist, families have names.

[Lizzie]

A tribal's name is typically their first name, the sub-family they're in, and the tribe name. So an Arabet might be Talia Dunefighter of the Arabet tribe, in Bendune. In sirihish, that translates to Talia Surhahah al'Arabet

If you're a human from the city and lived in a tenement with your whore mother and someone who she claimed was your older brother, then you'd have no need for a tribal name, or a sub-family name. You'd just be Amos of Tuluk. You could go ahead and get all tribal and say it's Amos Warrenswhelp al'Tuluk but no one is really going to take it very seriously.

[Xeran Van Houten]

The most annoying part is when people don't realize it's fine for commoners to have a family name and you have to spend a great deal of time explaining it... It's worse if that person is a Templar or noble... Awkward...

[boog]

The most annoying part is when people don't realize it's fine for commoners to have a family name and you have to spend a great deal of time explaining it... It's worse if that person is a Templar or noble... Awkward...

"Lol, what do you -mean- you're John Smith?!"

[Zoltan]

The most annoying part is when people don't realize it's fine for commoners to have a family name and you have to spend a great deal of time explaining it... It's worse if that person is a Templar or noble... Awkward...

Heheheheheh.

I only had one commoner character with a surname, and there was a decent reason for having it. I'm glad I never got my balls yanked around on it.

[Lizzie]

It definitely is fine to have a surname. It's also fine to have a virtual family, and virtual lovers. I was pretty annoyed when I played a character who had a living VNPC family, and VNPC boyfriends, and people kept ICly questioning their existence.  Just because your character isn't from a known, coded "official" family, doesn't mean he/she isn't one of the THOUSANDS of other non-coded, unofficial families throughout the known world. It's irksome when other players forget this and give someone shit about it in game, when it shouldn't be noteworthy at all.

[HavokBlue]

It definitely is fine to have a surname. It's also fine to have a virtual family, and virtual lovers. I was pretty annoyed when I played a character who had a living VNPC family, and VNPC boyfriends, and people kept ICly questioning their existence.  Just because your character isn't from a known, coded "official" family, doesn't mean he/she isn't one of the THOUSANDS of other non-coded, unofficial families throughout the known world. It's irksome when other players forget this and give someone shit about it in game, when it shouldn't be noteworthy at all.

I've had this happen before. I wanted to smack the other PC involved.

[Yam]

It's more than fine for commoners to have surnames.

[HavokBlue]

Although I predict, as a result of this thread, lots of people are going to start giving their commoners surnames to prove a point.

[askaran]

I've only seen a few surnames. My favourite being Gage Gritshaw lol. But I've seen ALOT of titles. Like Krylslayer, Mekstomper.. Stuff like that. Mostly with Half-Giants though.

[Yam]

Ah yes the noble Grawp Pantsshitter.

[Barzalene]

I confess I don't like them when they're grandiose. They feel so high fantasy novel, when they are.

[Jenred]

There are numerous examples for the reasonable assumption of surnames.
Quintus Tektolnes and Muk Utep are two of the biggest individuals with surnames.
Then of course there are great houses (they weren't ALWAYs great, and one time they were just regular familes).
Tribal surnames, Gypsy surnames.

I think whats important though, before a big wave of surnames appears, is establishing some of the backstory for surnames.
Surnames can be patronymic or matronymic; occupational, locational, ornamental, etc. and while it might not be necessary for your character to know where there surname came from, I think it can definitely be a nice facet of character depth to at least have some thought in it - even if that thought was "I adopted that name because it sounded nice" - thus being an ornamental surname.

I agree that I, personally, don't like grandiose sounding surnames, but thats more of a personal taste. Historically, people without surnames tended to adopt overly grandiose sounding surnames - or conversely very plain sounding (de-slaved Blacks tended to either go simplistic, based on Presidents).

It would be nice if someone wanted to take the time to make some default Zalanthan surname stuff, perhaps relative to the major cities.

Whats interesting is that due to the transliteration of English into Zalanthas, several "earth-sounding" names would actually be viable. There are still Coopers, Carvers, Potters, Mason, Porter, Sawbones, etc.

[SMuz]

There are numerous examples for the reasonable assumption of surnames.
Quintus Tektolnes and Muk Utep are two of the biggest individuals with surnames.
Then of course there are great houses (they weren't ALWAYs great, and one time they were just regular familes).
Tribal surnames, Gypsy surnames.

I think the issue is that a lot of commoners don't seem to have surnames. It seems like a middle/upper class thing, like silk

There's not really a lot of people on Zalanthas, so I can see how people don't have surnames. People don't take their heritage too seriously. A child of a dungsweeper or miner doesn't need to glorify their heritage. I could see it being useful as a label for popular names, like Amos Bynner, Amos Smith, Amos Sharp, Amos Tokfecker.

I wonder if things like the Arabian 'surnames', where person is "John son of Malik", would apply to Zalanthas.

[Jenred]

A child of a dungsweeper or miner doesn't need to glorify their heritage. I could see it being useful as a label for popular names, like Amos Bynner, Amos Smith, Amos Sharp, Amos Tokfecker.

I wonder if things like the Arabian 'surnames', where person is "John son of Malik", would apply to Zalanthas.

Thats what I was meaning when I said that it would be neat if someone wrote up something that got approved as at least a "default" for Allanak or Tuluk. Like... in Allanak the COMMON (not necessarily mandatory) thing is that people's surnames are occupational, or non-existent, or genealogical.

[TOOL]

Rarely have I made a commoner with a surname, but I've had numerous tribal characters with multiple names.  I don't see anything wrong with it and would encourage more people to add that bit of personality to their characters.  If anything, it makes you think a bit deeper on your character's lineage.

[Marc]

You don't need a mandate from up on high for this sort of thing.  Not to say throwing a Question? through the request system isn't a good idea, but it's a name.  Unless Staff comes out and says it doesn't fit the theme, flock it.

Malek Stonechipper
Malek son of Malek
Malek McMalekson (maybe not this one)
Malek Hunter
Malek Greyhuntrunnerup (yeah, probably not this one either)
Malek Amosus

Best bet is just to include your whole name in your background with the reasoning for it i.e.  Malek Stonechipper has been a stonecarver for decades like his father before him and his father before him OR Malek Amosus once saved Amos Kadius' life from a mugger and took the agents name as an honor for this act.   If staff doesn't think it fits for whatever reason you'll find out why right from the start!

I personally like the idea of occupational last names but that's only because they serve a purpose to the higher-ups ala classifying all the plebs for easy identification.  IMHO only!

[Majikal]

I like surnames as they normally show that the player has put a bit more thought into their pc rather than just a bunch of skills with a face, the more you go back into how your pc was brought up and how his family was the more real the pc begins to feel. Giving your pc a last name that is a reminder to his lineage does a lot in accomplishing that IMO. A pet peeve of mine does involve the silly surnames that just feel so high-fantasy or superhero.

[HavokBlue]

Surnames make sense for some characters, and don't for others.

Amos the orphan grebber probably doesn't have a surname, unless it's assumed or something. Malik, a member of a little trading family, on the other hand, is far more likely to have a surname, for business reasons as much as cultural ones.

[Reiteration]

I enjoy surnames that represent someone's profession, placed at either end of the given name. As well as representing someone's heritage/bloodline.
Kir Builder
Crafter Ightina
Hixup Hunter
Grebber Etrr
Stonechipper Malek, son of Amos

Some however shouldn't be used unless you're a real badass.
Assassin Stanz, Shadowblade of Tektolnes

scratch that, I wouldn't advise using that in the first place.

[Cindy42]

i always assumed that a huge proportion (maybe 50%) of commoner zalanthans living within the city-states who aren't tribal or related to gmhs will not actually possess one, considering a lot of people won't know their fathers, or their mothers, are de-slaved (in the case of a few pcs), came from orphanages, came from the 'rinth (i'd be surprised if a rinthi told me they had a last name, and would consider them top echelon in the rinth, akin to crime family, not sure if assuming this is correct) or the person/persons who raised them won't have one for one of the above reasons. i've believed this as a general, bendable rule for backgrounds. any of this glaringly wrong?

[Taven]

The last time I met a PC IG with a two-part name, I was seriously confused. I didn't know which one was "their name". It took me a couple RL days to figure out that it was a last name. Yeah, I was either really immersed or really out of it. In my defense, people seemed to use the two named interchangeably, so rather then a last name it seemed more like an either/or name thing.

I think last names can be neat. If you have a PC who is really about family, it can reflect that. My favorite group of last name commoners has to be the Makarims. Great times.

I also think that it can add spice to an individual.

It definitely is fine to have a surname. It's also fine to have a virtual family, and virtual lovers. I was pretty annoyed when I played a character who had a living VNPC family, and VNPC boyfriends, and people kept ICly questioning their existence.  Just because your character isn't from a known, coded "official" family, doesn't mean he/she isn't one of the THOUSANDS of other non-coded, unofficial families throughout the known world. It's irksome when other players forget this and give someone shit about it in game, when it shouldn't be noteworthy at all.

Yes, but on the other hand, they have no way to distinguish a vNPC from a fake person. You could have an insane PC who invented a family, and nobody would ever have any way to tell. I mean, don't forget about vNPCs, but also remember that fake/vNPC can't really be discerned, if they've never met them. An excellent way to get around this is to involve them in your scene somehow. Just make them have a terrible cold so they can't talk, or something.

[valeria]

I think the number of characters I've had who I have created surnames for in my head far outstrips the number of characters I have had who I have regularly introduced with their surname.

Maybe I should change that.

[hyzhenhok]

If I play a character with a surname, it's almost certainly because I'm adopting the name from somewhere else but changing it so it's not longer recognizable.

For example, Drih Zutt or Darr Thevader.