State of the magicker poll

[Cutthroat]

I can think of plenty of perfectly IC reasons for a Tuluki magicker to attempt to stay in Tuluk. Just to give one, imagine a character that's born a Tuluki citizen. He hasn't manifested yet, but the player intends to manifest after some months of play. By then he has to pick one out of many ways to deal with his problem. Eventually he decides that he'll suppress his curse as much as he can and try to go about a normal life. Knowing fully well that he is cursed, cantripping from time to time but otherwise not casting if he can help it (why would he want to?). That sounds not only not twinky, but like very good internal RP for someone to try out.

If you're talking about a Tuluki citizen that actively casts in Tuluk, that's not twinky. That's just someone who has something bad coming to them. Until staff start rejecting magicker apps that are clearly going to start in Tuluk, there is nothing wrong with attempting to play a Tuluki mage... so long as the player is responsible about it (and presumably will be having been approved for such).

[Saellyn]

I can think of plenty of perfectly IC reasons for a Tuluki magicker to attempt to stay in Tuluk. Just to give one, imagine a character that's born a Tuluki citizen. He hasn't manifested yet, but the player intends to manifest after some months of play. By then he has to pick one out of many ways to deal with his problem. Eventually he decides that he'll suppress his curse as much as he can and try to go about a normal life. Knowing fully well that he is cursed, cantripping from time to time but otherwise not casting if he can help it (why would he want to?). That sounds not only not twinky, but like very good internal RP for someone to try out.

If you're talking about a Tuluki citizen that actively casts in Tuluk, that's not twinky. That's just someone who has something bad coming to them. Until staff start rejecting magicker apps that are clearly going to start in Tuluk, there is nothing wrong with attempting to play a Tuluki mage... so long as the player is responsible about it (and presumably will be having been approved for such).

Magickers are seriously a player type that everybody and anybody will find a reason to complain about, and probably without playing the different kinds. It's not easy if you don't twink your mage skills, it's actually -really- hard, especially if you want to play an introverted magicker and try to get some kind of RP from people based on that.

[musashi]

Again, metagaming.

Nobody raised in Tuluk would ever believe they could be safe no matter what skills they might have, that is sort of the point to the all powerful godkings and templars types, they see all, they know all and nobody ICly knows exactly how it is done..other then the godkings and templars and they are not going to tell the lower then dirt commoners.

So you have a sense of dread that you're going to be caught any moment now ... so?

[Saellyn]

Again, metagaming.

Nobody raised in Tuluk would ever believe they could be safe no matter what skills they might have, that is sort of the point to the all powerful godkings and templars types, they see all, they know all and nobody ICly knows exactly how it is done..other then the godkings and templars and they are not going to tell the lower then dirt commoners.

So you have a sense of dread that you're going to be caught any moment now ... so?

That promotes conflict and encourages Magickers to have good RP. That's illegal you know.

[musashi]

I mean I see where X-D is coming from in the sense that it would be metagaming for a player who knows what a templar can and can not easily figure out (because they used to play one, or worked closely for them in a past incarnation maybe) to play their character in such a way that they avoid leaving any clues.

Clues that their character should by all rights be leaving, and that a less knowledgeable player would certainly be leaving.

That would be metagaming.

That's not the only way to play a covert 'gicker in a city-state though.

It's totally possible to dread your inevitable discovery while not running to the nearest templar to confess. Because you know what else everyone in Tuluk knows? They know what happens to 'gickers when the Templarate finds them. No one is going to go rush willingly into that, even if they think they'll get caught eventually anyway.

EDIT TO ADD: To me playing a 'gicker in Tuluk felt kind of being in Nazi Germany and finding out you have Jewish ancestry.

[Marshmellow]

I understand X-D's logic, but I will postulate (instead) that "they are all knowing!!!" is meta-gaming because nobody actually knows what the Templars know or how they accomplish what they accomplish.  It could be all cloak and dagger, and much of it is.  You knowing more than others is what makes you think that others that know just as much are metagaming, because you would be playing in a way that is metagamey if you played a Tuluki mage.  I think plenty of people do so just right.

[X-D]

I am not saying that starting in Tuluk is a problem, or having it as a backround.

But the idea that somebody who knows the powers that be already know and they are simply toying with him before they swoop in and make him go away, purposely staying and trying to hide it is silly and twinky.

Sure, as a player you know differently, and that is what makes it so bad IMO.

And Marsh, that is silly, it is documented that Nobles are better then others and that Templars are minions of the godkings, gifted with powers far beyond the ken of any simple commoner, evil sorcerer, elementalist, etc etc, and that the godkings themselves are ten times more  powerful or more then the templars, You, as a citizen, would be raised thinking that these beings are all knowing all powerful beings of DOOM. It is not metagaming in the least for your PC to think that the lowest templar can hear his every thought, desire and see every action. Only you the player might think you know otherwise.

These things could not stay in power unless people actually thought they were that powerful or moreso.


But hey, this is just my opinion on the matter.

[Saellyn]

Maybe he's hoping Lord Templar or Faithful Lord Wackadoo and Wickidee and the Godkings don't -KNOW- because they're so busy with other stuff that they don't give a damn about one mage?

[musashi]

Or he would run away from the city given half a chance but ... leave the city? That's every bit the death sentence waiting for the Templarate to find him is! Doom and Gloom no matter where he turns! 

[Saellyn]

Or he would run away from the city given half a chance but ... leave the city? That's every bit the death sentence waiting for the Templarate to find him is! Doom and Gloom no matter where he turns! 

Well he could buy an escort out of the city... but then they'd kill him and steal his boots!

[musashi]

Or maybe he has family that he has to take care of ... or social ties that make disappearing problematic or ... whatever whatever whatever. There are tons of options for playing a perfectly IC Tuluki 'gicker who stays in the city.

Yes ... they probably are going to eventually get caught though. That's part of the game.

[Cutthroat]

I am not saying that starting in Tuluk is a problem, or having it as a backround.

But the idea that somebody who knows the powers that be already know and they are simply toying with him before they swoop in and make him go away, purposely staying and trying to hide it is silly and twinky.

Sure, as a player you know differently, and that is what makes it so bad IMO.

I still disagree. Yes, a person would probably assume that they are pretty much done for in that case. However, your average Tuluki citizen doesn't think about leaving the safety of the walls. That said, whether he would turn himself in to the templarate or try to hide is up to the character's discretion.

I kind of relate it to hit-and-run accidents IRL. You run over a pedestrian, and people may have gotten your plates. You could either stop and get out or keep driving in fear - mostly in fear of what just happened, but also in fear of getting caught, knowing fully well what will happen.

You're a Tuluki magicker, and the all-knowing templars might have noticed. Gambling on whether they did is just that, and not meta-gaming. It's just an IC decision. Fear of turning yourself in, not knowing whether they'll just kill you or throw you out into the super-dangerous outside, is an IC feeling.

[musashi]

Or even if you know they already know, denial is not a river in Egypt.

I mean how many times have you been caught in a lie by someone (especially when you were a kid) and you KNOW they already know the truth and they've got your number but for whatever irrational reason you just keep denying it?

Same deal.

[Case]

Can't even go to the Temple without seeing gickers

[Saellyn]

Or even if you know they already know, denial is not a river in Egypt.

I mean how many times have you been caught in a lie by someone (especially when you were a kid) and you KNOW they already know the truth and they've got your number but for whatever irrational reason you just keep denying it?

Same deal.

Not "just" a river in egypt, my man.

[hyzhenhok]

Where does it say in the docs that Tulukis think the Tuluki templarate are all-knowing and omniscient, anyway?

[Jingo]

Quite a bit of ic info (and assumptions surrounding them) has been let loose here actually.

[Cutthroat]

Where does it say in the docs that Tulukis think the Tuluki templarate are all-knowing and omniscient, anyway?

...while Tuluk's all-seeing and all-knowing Templarate seems to pervade the city, ruling with their benevolent, firm fist ...

Most direct hinting at the fact that at least some Tulukis believe this. Of course, being sentient, Tulukis can have different opinions about this.

[Cindy42]

magickers are equally as common everywhere, right? the only discrepancy i've ever heard of is the fact that mutants tend to be born more often near the silt sea.

[hyzhenhok]

Where does it say in the docs that Tulukis think the Tuluki templarate are all-knowing and omniscient, anyway?

...while Tuluk's all-seeing and all-knowing Templarate seems to pervade the city, ruling with their benevolent, firm fist ...

Most direct hinting at the fact that at least some Tulukis believe this. Of course, being sentient, Tulukis can have different opinions about this.

That seems like figurative writing. And look at the context: not a main Tuluki article, but an article about the part of Tuluk where the templarate's grasp rather obviously didn't extend! "All seeing, all knowing templarate" is the colloquial way of saying "the coppers" in Tuluk; that doesn't mean everyone believes it.

It seems strange to me that a society that honors skillful thieves and assassins would think that you couldn't sneak around and do things without being noticed.  The society treats things that are unseen as nonexistent: the crime that no one sees never happened, the person who disappeared never died, etc. That doesn't mean people actually think these things never happen. There's no reason you couldn't have a Tuluki magicker who believes his magick is just like the skills of a thief or assassin: as long as it isn't seen, it doesn't exist.

I seriously doubt commoners have the belief that Muk Utep or templars are looking over their shoulder at all times. Commoners know they are inferior--they know they are unimportant, and their individual lives are not really important to the templarate. While they probably believe the templarate has the power to keep tabs on them, there's no reason to believe they actually are, or have much reason to. And after the first time a magicker accidentally discharges magick and subsequently isn't automatically hunted down and disappeared, he knows that apparently his magick is either below the radar or just not a matter of urgency to the templarate.

[Cutthroat]

Where does it say in the docs that Tulukis think the Tuluki templarate are all-knowing and omniscient, anyway?

...while Tuluk's all-seeing and all-knowing Templarate seems to pervade the city, ruling with their benevolent, firm fist ...

Most direct hinting at the fact that at least some Tulukis believe this. Of course, being sentient, Tulukis can have different opinions about this.

That seems like figurative writing. And look at the context: not a main Tuluki article, but an article about the part of Tuluk where the templarate's grasp rather obviously didn't extend! "All seeing, all knowing templarate" is the colloquial way of saying "the coppers" in Tuluk; that doesn't mean everyone believes it.

It seems strange to me that a society that honors skillful thieves and assassins would think that you couldn't sneak around and do things without being noticed.  The society treats things that are unseen as nonexistent: the crime that no one sees never happened, the person who disappeared never died, etc. That doesn't mean people actually think these things never happen. There's no reason you couldn't have a Tuluki magicker who believes his magick is just like the skills of a thief or assassin: as long as it isn't seen, it doesn't exist.

I seriously doubt commoners have the belief that Muk Utep or templars are looking over their shoulder at all times. Commoners know they are inferior--they know they are unimportant, and their individual lives are not really important to the templarate. While they probably believe the templarate has the power to keep tabs on them, there's no reason to believe they actually are, or have much reason to. And after the first time a magicker accidentally discharges magick and subsequently isn't automatically hunted down and disappeared, he knows that apparently his magick is either below the radar or just not a matter of urgency to the templarate.

Yeah, I pretty much agree with you. Which is why I think assuming a magicker in Tuluk is merely a twink is silly.

[Barzalene]

It's not monopoly or basketball. You're allowed to play the losing game, because the point isn't to win, but to create a story. I don't see anything wrong with playing a gicker in Tuluk, regardless of whether the powers that be are all knowing or not, without it being twinky or silly.

[Yam]

magickers are equally as common everywhere, right? the only discrepancy i've ever heard of is the fact that mutants tend to be born more often near the silt sea.

If there's a genetic component (and that sounds plausible) I suspect they're more likely in Allanak since Tuluk tends to cull the herd of any magicky folk.

[palomar]

Personally, I think playing a secret magicker in Tuluk is a perfectly viable role and could provide lots of interesting RP. Elementalists are born with their powers, and I would guess that the number of born potential elementalists are fairly even across Zalanathas.

However, there are some things that have to be kept in mind when it comes to magick and Tuluk. The following is taken from the introduction page, "What you know ...":

Despite the fact that the vast majority of Tuluki citizens were not alive during the initial destruction of the city- state at the hands of powerful elementals, the burning fear and hatred for the chaos wreaked by these creatures has instilled an inimitable hatred for all things magick within the hearts and souls of the population. The former temples to the elements were not reconstructed when the city-state was rebuilt. Magick is outlawed within the Gol Krathu region and its surroundings and no distinction is made between a defiler and an elementalist when one is discovered practicing these arts. Execution is swift and brutal and many discovered to be magickers do not live to face the Templarate.

The quote above indicates that magick-hate is not only due to indoctrination from the Templarate, but rather something that has survived on its own among the people living in Tuluk -- after all, there are many many signs of how bad and dangerous magick is around the city. People who experienced the Cataclysm are dead and gone, but a lot of people who experienced the Flood are still alive. It would be a very tough situation to come to terms with for the newly-manifested Tuluki elementalist.

I don't think Tulukis would really talk about the existence of magick on the individual level within the city. Maybe hushed whispers about someone who was suspected and then never seen again. There are no real similarities to the valued and recognized Arts of theft and assassination.

As Barzalene just said, there's lots of room to create a story with this kind of roles in Tuluk (or at least starting out there). Anything can be twinked or turned silly, but I don't think a magicker-in-Tuluk is, out of the box.

[Xeran Van Houten]

So...

Gemmed procreation: acceptable, illegal, or up to the templar/noble that has the most direct authority over the gemmed in question at the time?