I just don't buy it...

[Anaiah]

If what you're saying is:

Templars basically have the power to do anything they want, and don't hesitate to use it when threatened, intimidated, or annoyed.

...then I fully agree. It explains this here in the documentation. That's how it's supposed to be, yes.

Also:

Perhaps you should stop posting and delete your gdb account.

You failed at playing the game, now you're failing to play the gdb.

Could staff lock this or delete it or something? It's nothing more than flame-bait.

It's imminent. And you posting things like this is only fanning such flames. Let's be civil.

[quickslash]

I guess it is. I just really wanted to know if the pbase agreed. I've said all I wanted to say now, I think.

[Barzalene]

The thing is, you need structure for a story, and you need rules for a game. The game isn't designed to  please the upper tiers, it's a framework that limits your character's options. That's a good thing in the same way that at the poker table you have to wait for your turn to bet.

[quickslash]

Like I said, I didn't annoy anyone. On more than one occaision this has happened when I instigated nothing, drawing the line only at my character's self respect.

[Cutthroat]

Nobody would put up with the system in Allanak. They're allowed too much freedom. They can come and go as they please, hire protection, organize and conspire. The Templars are grossly outnumbered and- when it comes down to it- completely overplay their hand on an individual basis. If you're going to have people who demand that much ass-kissing and actually get away with it, you'd need the political system to be so overbearing and rigid that you wouldn't have a game.

A month of this bull and you'd have every able-bodied commoner plotting to go set up their own government in Red Storm or Luirs. Failing that they'd found their own town.

People probably put up with the templarate's crap because it's the safer alternative to braving the wastes. People who don't put up with that crap become refugees. There have been refugees represented as NPCs and vNPCs in various places.

I can't help but get the feeling- no matter how many different characters who react in different ways I play- that this game is designed to gratify the upper tier of characters. I hope I don't go to far with this, but I get the feeling the people who play them were bullied a lot in school. I'm unconvinced by the gameworld and even if you can explain it (magic is the only way it's possible, the water issue could be solved) I'm still too repulsed to find it worth my time.

The worst thing you can do in this game is take attacks on your character personally. Oppression is a part of life in Zalanthas, and luckily there are quite a few ways to avoid the brunt of it. If I were a Zalanthan getting hunted by the templarate, I would do things to protect myself, such as leave, or do things to make it detrimental for the templar to continue, such as joining an influential clan.

[Erythil]

If nobody's mentioned it already, Red Storm was actually founded due to your own reasoning.  It's a city run by the descendants of dissidents.

I imagine, if we had a much bigger playerbase, there might be more such movements and more small cities, but unfortunately, even Storm doesn't have any players in it most of the time.

[quickslash]

If nobody's mentioned it already, Red Storm was actually founded due to your own reasoning.  It's a city run by the descendants of dissidents.

I imagine, if we had a much bigger playerbase, there might be more such movements and more small cities, but unfortunately, even Storm doesn't have any players in it most of the time.

In an effort to balance myself a bit, I want to say that I did find RP in Red Storm once and not only was it the best I've found on this game, but it was some of the best I've found in seven years of MUDing

I'd be happy to work with players who see things my way to get Red Storm kicking again now that you mention it, but with ARM 2 looming on the horizon and myself with a Nakki character to play I doubt it's really plausible that I can.

[Jdr]

It's nothing more than flame-bait.

Your post.

[Reiloth]

If nobody's mentioned it already, Red Storm was actually founded due to your own reasoning.  It's a city run by the descendants of dissidents.

I imagine, if we had a much bigger playerbase, there might be more such movements and more small cities, but unfortunately, even Storm doesn't have any players in it most of the time.

In an effort to balance myself a bit, I want to say that I did find RP in Red Storm once and not only was it the best I've found on this game, but it was some of the best I've found in seven years of MUDing

I'd be happy to work with players who see things my way to get Red Storm kicking again now that you mention it, but with ARM 2 looming on the horizon and myself with a Nakki character to play I doubt it's really plausible that I can.

Arm 2 is not looming on the horizon. If you want to play in Red Storm, go for it. The Labyrinth is a great place to avoid Templar authority if that is not your bag.

[Semper]

...
It's apparent that this kind of incident (dying to templars/authority figures) has happened with several characters for you. Any sane person with several lives would try and fit into the structure if it they didn't fit into it, or go someplace else. I don't see why you continue to play rebellious, non-conforming commoners in Allanak when you can play elsewhere in the game, and if you still want to play those kinds of characters in Allanak, don't be surprised when you get killed for your characters foolish actions/words. Far more smarter would be to AVOID those kinds of figures (or openly rebel against as raiders/criminals), and I know many many players/characters who have done just that and had just as much as much fun with the game.

Templars can kill commoners on whim. Since you know that, you should have avoided them, or expected to get punished if you brought attention to your character.

That said. Whatever. There's goods and bads of the game. Some players like the goods despite the bads, and still remain playing for years. Others don't, and leave. Hopefully you are the former, though it sounds like you're the later. Either way, good luck.

[quickslash]

I might try the Labyrinth.

And for the last time, I did /not/ start the conversation. I acknowledge the existance of the Templar with an emote and was singled out. I won't go into details, obviously, but suffice it to say that dozens of vNPCs probably do the exact same thing in a given day.

Then the conversation started, and from that moment I was doomed just for having a self-respecting PC.

[Semper]

I might try the Labyrinth.

And for the last time, I did /not/ start the conversation. I acknowledge the existance of the Templar with an emote and was singled out. I won't go into details, obviously, but suffice it to say that dozens of vNPCs probably do the exact same thing in a given day.

Then the conversation started, and from that moment I was doomed just for having a self-respecting PC.

Put in a player complaint? There's some awefully played characters IG, but also some tremendous ones as well. Hopefully you meet one of the great ones soon if you haven't already.

[Zoltan]

A self-respecting person should also have a sense of self-preservation. My most zealous anti-authority, anti-templarate, egotistical character still knew enough to shut the fuck up and do what the templar wants and then to proceed to stay the fuck away from said templar. And believe me, no PC in the game is totally untouchable, not even nobles and templars.

Zalanthas, and especially Allanak, has little demand for martyrs getting themselves nailed up onto crosses. Allanak is a city state ruled brutally by means of unspeakable magick power, sharp class and race divisions, paranoia of outsiders and fear of the outside in general. Any true resistance would be buried deep in someone, and it would be built from there.

I've had my share of subversive characters. They weren't making out with half-elves, keeping company with baby-eatin' magickers, spitting on templars or otherwise deviating wildly from the norm -- they were making damn sure to blend in.

[boog]

Maybe it's just me, but I've never had issues with people over-exerting their 'influence' in this game.

The current templars are pretty bomb diggity, in each city-state. I enjoy all of my interactions.

Instead of looking at things so drearily, you might want to be more positive and try to learn from your experiences. Like previous posters have said, you can rebel in quieter ways. Thinks, feels, quietly gathering together a resistance or a group of like-minded individuals.

Or, the next time you play, play in an area that isn't so strict in its laws and regulations.

[Drayab]

Think of it in Darwinian terms. Your average Nakki ought to know how to whine, grovel, and beg his way out from under the Templar's jackboots. Knowing how to do that is a cultural adaptation.

[Niamh]

You have to consider the fact that the majority of Allanakis are the fit in and play nice type, and will bend to a templar's will whether they want to or not.  They might secretly not want to, hate doing it, whatever.  You yourself have seen firsthand what happens when people step out of line with the norm.  Tektolnes and his templars have not retained control over Allanak by allowing rebellious upstarts to flourish.  As a player, sometimes you have to step outside what you as a person are like to roleplay a character that you are not.  Think of it as acting - an actor will most definitely not fit into a part if they only ever portray their own personality.

[Jdr]

I love this game because it's unfair. Nobility are cruel and powerful, and I need to play meek or get killed. It's so refreshingly original in a world of games which want to allow players to, well, have r It's why Arm 2 saddens me - no more overbearing overt cruelty from those born to power. But that's not for discussion here.

[jstorrie]

Yeah, as far as Zalanthans are concerned, acting submissive around a templar has no bearing at all on the character's self-respect. They, like so many other people in Zalanthas (feared raiders, powerful magickers, trade barons) literally have the power of life or death over you.

I don't think many Allanakis or Tulukis consider it shameful or indignified at all to obey a templar. Those that do move, rebel, go underground (literally or figuratively), outplay their political foes, or die.

[quickslash]

To all of the above:

I understand this, agree with it and want to stay away from this game because of it. I've tried at least four completely different characters in Tuluk and Nak who actively avoided pissing off Templars but were each pushed to their limit. Usually by the first one they met. It's not for everyone. I guess it's just hard for me wrap my head around the fact that I'm in the minority on this one.

I've played in Luirs and Red Storm and in a tribe and my only grief with those is the inconsistency of available roleplay.

[Is Friday]

Boring people will be bored.

What I gathered from a short AIM conversation: If you don't want to read documentation in order to play this game, then you're in the wrong place. Obviously people don't want to interact with you even borderline favorably if you haven't read any docs.

[brytta.leofa]

Just about the only totally unforgivable thing you can do in Allanak is refuse to show how much you love and fear Colonel Gaddafi and his patriotic enforcers.  You're not a bad person to not like this kind of environment, but you gotta understand that you will get pwned over and over and over if you play Mr. Dignity O'Mankind, whether in Libya or Allanak.

But I've seen players of templars bend over backwards to avoid actually PKing people who give them lip.  Not to say that they all do or should.

[quickslash]

I prefer a system that rewards ambition and crushes stupidity. Maybe ARM's got that to a point. But I also prefer a system that allows you to approach that ambition from whatever angle you choose. ARM seems to only have a very select few such angles.

If I were to pour over the documentation I'm more than confident I'd find some loophole in the system that I'd love exploiting- hell I might even be able to pull it off.

But I have the overwhelming sense that somehow, some way, I would be completely denied any satisfaction with how it all ended.

[quickslash]

Just about the only totally unforgivable thing you can do in Allanak is refuse to show how much you love and fear Colonel Gaddafi and his patriotic enforcers.  You're not a bad person to not like this kind of environment, but you gotta understand that you will get pwned over and over and over if you play Mr. Dignity O'Mankind, whether in Libya or Allanak.

But I've seen players of templars bend over backwards to avoid actually PKing people who give them lip.  Not to say that they all do or should.

I promise you, my character was /not/ that uncompromising. The Templar pressed until he either chose his self respect or to not piss them off.

[Cutthroat]

To all of the above:

I understand this, agree with it and want to stay away from this game because of it. I've tried at least four completely different characters in Tuluk and Nak who actively avoided pissing off Templars but were each pushed to their limit. Usually by the first one they met. It's not for everyone. I guess it's just hard for me wrap my head around the fact that I'm in the minority on this one.

I've played in Luirs and Red Storm and in a tribe and my only grief with those is the inconsistency of available roleplay.

No one is keeping you here. The fact that you're staying here and arguing about it shows you want to make it work, though. So here's a few tips I have, in a checklist, from the point of view of your PC:

Why is this templar mad at me?
_____ I am a foreigner (a northerner or 'rinther in Allanak proper, or a southerner in Tuluk).
_____ I did not nod, bow, or prostrate (depending on the templar's rank and city) before addressing him/her.
_____ I did not address the templar correctly (Faithful Lord/Lady, or, Lord/Lady Templar, depending on the city).
_____ I am not human, and thus have stereotypes about me that the templar may believe.
_____ I am a member of a clan whose relationship with the templarate is bad or strained.
_____ I have no affiliation, and thus have no protection.
_____ I am a criminal, and am thus under arrest.

If one or more (or especially more) are checked, your PC is the low hanging fruit for the templar to pick.
If none are checked and the templar's mad at your PC anyway, well, there are plenty of reasons for that to be the case that have nothing to do with your PC, and more to do with the templar's own internal RP.

[quickslash]

That hasn't been my experience with what it takes to piss off Templars.

As to the last, they should go torture some vNPCs or players who are asking for it.

Anyway, this line of debate can only lead to the dead end where we need IC details. I appreciate all of you who're trying to help. I do have a more clear image of what the pbase thinks of this which is what I wanted.

But if anyone was going to change my mind, it would've happened already.