Policy Discussion: 2011

[Jdr]

The day Tektolnes got SO WASTED on spice and booze and decided to promote Lord Templar Amos Jal to the Black, because he's a really cool guy, y'know?

[HammerofJericho]

If I were a Black robe I would do research to make icy pops (honey-flavored, cactus-flavored, japuaar flavored) and then become a city hero.

[HavokBlue]

From the south, a male voice shouts, "Give it up for the new Giant's Fist champion of Allanak: Lord Templar Walik the Black!"

[Marauder Moe]

"With a throw of... err... how many cords away is Tuluk?"

[Aruven]

Probably wouldn't be much fun for the black robe's player either.  A black robe really wouldn't be able to do ANYTHING without live staff support, save perhaps meet with underlings (red robes).

I mean, seriously, how the heck do you envision things working with them?  Supreme Lord Walik the Black strolls into the Gaj to see what's going on?  Goes out riding with the PC militia for a larf?  Meets with Junior Merchant Jilla Kadius to buy silk toilet paper?  Stops for a game of Giant's Fist on the way back?

Hah, i get the idea, hence the prospect of a role like that, we'll take a black robe in this instance, would require different RP. Not an ass load of staff interactions, but a lot of tolerance for solo RP. High level meetings with high class people, plotting your reds to make your blue robes squabble and get shit done. Keeping four fingers around the noble throats. It wouldn't be awful. Writing, reading, research. A lot of paths to go on.

[Semper]

Probably wouldn't be much fun for the black robe's player either.  A black robe really wouldn't be able to do ANYTHING without live staff support, save perhaps meet with underlings (red robes).

I mean, seriously, how the heck do you envision things working with them?  Supreme Lord Walik the Black strolls into the Gaj to see what's going on?  Goes out riding with the PC militia for a larf?  Meets with Junior Merchant Jilla Kadius to buy silk toilet paper?  Stops for a game of Giant's Fist on the way back?

Hah, i get the idea, hence the prospect of a role like that, we'll take a black robe in this instance, would require different RP. Not an ass load of staff interactions, but a lot of tolerance for solo RP. High level meetings with high class people, plotting your reds to make your blue robes squabble and get shit done. Keeping four fingers around the noble throats. It wouldn't be awful. Writing, reading, research. A lot of paths to go on.

Maybe let the player use some of the staff tools? They'd pretty much become part of the staff if they ever got that high...

[Nyr]

Probably wouldn't be much fun for the black robe's player either.  A black robe really wouldn't be able to do ANYTHING without live staff support, save perhaps meet with underlings (red robes).

I mean, seriously, how the heck do you envision things working with them?  Supreme Lord Walik the Black strolls into the Gaj to see what's going on?  Goes out riding with the PC militia for a larf?  Meets with Junior Merchant Jilla Kadius to buy silk toilet paper?  Stops for a game of Giant's Fist on the way back?

Hah, i get the idea, hence the prospect of a role like that, we'll take a black robe in this instance, would require different RP. Not an ass load of staff interactions, but a lot of tolerance for solo RP. High level meetings with high class people, plotting your reds to make your blue robes squabble and get shit done. Keeping four fingers around the noble throats. It wouldn't be awful. Writing, reading, research. A lot of paths to go on.

High level meetings with what high class people? What blues and reds do you mean? What noble throats? 

Yes, it would be awful. Everyone you expect to interact with in your hypothetical scenario is an npc of vnpc.

[Aruven]

Probably wouldn't be much fun for the black robe's player either.  A black robe really wouldn't be able to do ANYTHING without live staff support, save perhaps meet with underlings (red robes).

I mean, seriously, how the heck do you envision things working with them?  Supreme Lord Walik the Black strolls into the Gaj to see what's going on?  Goes out riding with the PC militia for a larf?  Meets with Junior Merchant Jilla Kadius to buy silk toilet paper?  Stops for a game of Giant's Fist on the way back?

Hah, i get the idea, hence the prospect of a role like that, we'll take a black robe in this instance, would require different RP. Not an ass load of staff interactions, but a lot of tolerance for solo RP. High level meetings with high class people, plotting your reds to make your blue robes squabble and get shit done. Keeping four fingers around the noble throats. It wouldn't be awful. Writing, reading, research. A lot of paths to go on.

High level meetings with what high class people? What blues and reds do you mean? What noble throats? 

Yes, it would be awful. Everyone you expect to interact with in your hypothetical scenario is an npc of vnpc.

Hmm. I wasn't meaning to come off like special app a black robe. i was trying to point out that a higher level can be done, like a red. Nobles that roleplayed senators would be cool too. I've -seen- it, but not in a long, long time.

[Nyr]

The higher levels you refer to would not interact regularly with anything but other higher level folks and occasionally their subordinates. Blue robes are subordinate to reds. Senior nobles are subordinate to senators.

"Control vast aspects of Allanak! Interact with no one! Become an Allanaki senator!"

If you want to do that just apply for a staff position.

[Ktavialt]

I know I'm preaching to the choir but I like posting .  For realism purposes, the playerbase has to be a pyramid with an incredibly wide base and an incredibly thin top, power wise, and that "top" from a PC standpoint today may equal one red robe templar, at the maximum.   Its just the spread.  If we ever get to 250 players logging in at once on a regular basis, I could see it viable for more higher level roles being opened, as the lower ends would be covered and there would be enough "more interesting" stuff that higher ups would have to deal with.

[Zoan]

We won't get more players, though, because whenever someone new complains about something we tell them to piss off, newb.

To be fair, they can be pretty annoying with their gripes, but is antagonizing them really necessary? We all go through our little bitch-fits and get over it after a character death.

[Taven]

No new clans or organizations can be officially formed.

Nyr Comments

Yes, there have been new clans and they're pretty cool. But that's staff related, and player-related is something very different. The player-created clan and subclan that you mentioned both had boards. I think that boards and places really show staff love. I'm not saying that every random player should be able to make a boarded clan and if it did ever happen it should be very hard and rarely occur. I would like to have the possibility, however. If an unofficial clan can bring things to the game, provide interaction, enrich play and has been able to keep itself established for a significant amount of time then I think it would be nice to have just even the possibility of being a real clan. I think the requirements for this should be very steep, and very hard, and it should rarely, rarely happen... But I think the potential of it happening is awesome.

Slave roles are no longer available.  If enslaved, the PC is force stored even if they'd like to play out the role.

I'm just curious how long you can be a slave before you get stored. IE, can you have a couple of RL days to plot escape and potentially go out trying to escape?

Every sponsored role (and nearly every clan) seems to be mundane only. To the point that I don't even find myself wondering OOCly if any sponsered PC's are secretly anything but mundane. A feeling I often had in the old days and miss greatly.

Nyr Comments

I don't care so much about sponsored roles not being magickers. It's the "nearly every clan" bit that bothers me. I don't know what's currently going on, but some more leadership from those that work with magickers (gemmed) or some under-the-table hiring might be neat, if it's not already happening. Maybe it is, and if it is, that's awesome. Rock on.

The overall 'rank' that PC's can attain seems to be artifically capped, so ascension to things like senior templar, senior merchant house, or noble positions don't seem possible any longer.

Nyr Comments

Right off the bat I'm just going to say that I'm a little under informed in this area. However, I think that more awards, or awards handed out more often would be cool. What about ranks that weren't as powerful/stepped up as they are now? Something that recognizes an older successful PC with a rank designation without making it so they have to be incredibly rare or overpowered. I think that would be neat.

[Zoan]

I've never read that all sponsored roles MUST be mundane. I mean sure, there's been a couple, but there's never been some official written rule that says 'You are not allowed to be transmundane' for every single sponsored app. They tend to specifically comment that they want a mundane character only, which means there's no written rule.

Edited: Also, a few years back I felt pretty damn special for being in not particularly important roles like sergeant. Maybe it was the players, maybe it was the staff. All I know is, for whatever reason today's middleman leadership roles feel like they have lost their lustre.

[My 2 sids]

Going back to the org. post -- maybe more time and energy should be invested in "making ripples"?

Take a look at micro-lending.  Micro lending does work -- an investment of twenty-five or a hundred dollars can change lives!  However, the circumstances must be right:  if applied to multi-million dollar companies  or included in communities with HUGE economies, loaning $25 or $200 dollars just won't make much impact.

And I kind of get the impression that in the game we have all these low, middle-management leadership PCs trying to impact things WAY too large for them.  And there in lies the frustration:  trying to make ripples in the ocean.   Better, I think, for the truly powerful in the clans (and staff)  to allow for some small shallow ponds, where middle-management level
PCs actually CAN make a difference.

The GMH shouldn't really be noticing if some low-level workers decide they need to rumble with another GMH low-level workers.  The Templars of the city shouldn't really be bothered if some Private or lower-rank soldier wants to intimidate some other low-level citizen for coins to buy a drink.  No one should really take notice of a petty thief or burglar who has no real criminal connections,  just trying to eek out a living.

I just think if small, petty plots were giving the attention and backing some of the larger plots did, or at least allowed to exist w/o drawing attention, PCs would feel like they were more able to start and carry out a tiny little plot.  Not everything has to be blown up and carried out to "World Changing" status, to be a successful plot.

[musashi]

This is unrelated.  We won't store someone for being a badass sorcerer/defiler/whatever, or a bender of unspeakable power, or for being a Thrain Ironsword.

I've had a differing experience.
Just saying.

[Cutthroat]

There are two policy decisions in particular that I don't entirely agree with:

The "glass ceiling": I can understand why the game doesn't need PC black-robes, Precentors, heads of Houses, and other people of extreme power and seclusion. I can also understand, to an extent, the desire to keep players away from lower promotions, like red-robe or mid-level senior positions - because if there's only one person in a certain group that deserves it, they will become more powerful than the others that don't yet. What I don't understand is why it was allowed in the past, and why it was taken away after it was seemingly successful.

Veteran players may remember - and remember well - characters like Samos, Serilla, Elithan, etc. who were all promoted just one step up from where they started, and still seemed to contribute greatly to goings-on while maintaining their position well ICly. Perhaps players of those long-gone characters could chime in on their own experiences. While rewards for characters that deserve them are great, it seems that they are not given out often, if at all. I would wager that this is one of the reasons why some people, likely Achiever-types, in long-lived sponsored roles store - because after a point there are less places to go, less things to do, and it feels more and more like they're not being noticed for what they are managing to do.

When it gets to the point where the players most qualified to play sponsored roles are also among the least interested, because there is more of a reward in playing "normal" roles, it becomes a problem that seems really hard to fix. Right now I wouldn't say it is so bad, but I think steps could be taken to prevent roles from seeming unappealing. Rewards are a good start; giving out more responsibilities, more things to be able to do, is good too, maybe even better.

PC Slavery: I know it's been beaten to death in the past; I just wish a solution was found besides the one we currently have. It doesn't currently make sense to request that the enslaved store their PC, because then it comes off as a punishment on the enslaved, rather than the slaver technically taking advantage of the rule. I thought it might be a good idea to make all PCs that start out free, and become enslaved, to be able to earn their freedom eventually. Make it so that players of slavers are reprimanded (at the least) if they don't give players of the enslaved terms that they could achieve to gain their freedom once more, and give it relatively little staff oversight. I imagine all it would take is the staff member being informed of the terms, and remembering in some way to check back every once in a while to see if the terms have been met. It would add a minimal amount of burden to clan staff.

Or in more general terms, put requirements on the slaver, rather than the enslaved.

[Nyr]

This is unrelated.  We won't store someone for being a badass sorcerer/defiler/whatever, or a bender of unspeakable power, or for being a Thrain Ironsword.

I've had a differing experience.
Just saying.

Yes.  Your experience was very different due to your roleplayed situation, and you should be quite aware of that as well.  Any scenario in which your character is forced to make hard choices due to the way you have roleplayed/used code in the past won't necessarily end with a result you want.

I think the requirements for this should be very steep, and very hard, and it should rarely, rarely happen...

That is the case already.

Slave roles are no longer available.  If enslaved, the PC is force stored even if they'd like to play out the role.

I'm just curious how long you can be a slave before you get stored. IE, can you have a couple of RL days to plot escape and potentially go out trying to escape?

Talk it out with the relevant staff at the time.

The overall 'rank' that PC's can attain seems to be artifically capped, so ascension to things like senior templar, senior merchant house, or noble positions don't seem possible any longer.

Nyr Comments

Right off the bat I'm just going to say that I'm a little under informed in this area. However, I think that more awards, or awards handed out more often would be cool. What about ranks that weren't as powerful/stepped up as they are now? Something that recognizes an older successful PC with a rank designation without making it so they have to be incredibly rare or overpowered. I think that would be neat.

Yes, this is exactly what I was talking about.

[My 2 sids]

Going off of what Cutthroat said:

Glass Ceiling:  I think if not an IC promotion, than an OOC one.  
Either something akin to a "horizontal promotion" where the PC is given a 'special' title and task (more power in their own plot, more power over their subordinate PCs)

OR  

Pick one or two clans which play centers around higher-level PCs.  


As for slavery:
One:  slavery belongs in game!  Having only employees simply helps to confuse the "Capitalistic" vibe the game gives off (Capitalism meaning Wealth over Blood).  

Two, what Cutthroat suggested is actually historically true.  Often, in accent societies, slavery would be a temporary thing:  even the Bible suggests the master must free the slave after 7 years!  Or, the slave can choose to become life-long.

All we'd really need to do is to tweek the Docs:  squeeze in a slave which functions more like an indentured servant.  Could we possibly start a slavery thread in the player collaboration for like a month?  Then present a good, logical, Zan-based idea to Staff?  

[Zoltan]

What's the point of taking a slave if you're going to let them eventually be free anyway? I don't see what the appeal to play a slave is for people, except for the one or two clearly special slaves I've played with (and one I -owned-) in the past. Sure, it can be interesting, but your average slave's life is the complete opposite of interesting.

As to the glass ceiling thing, I've always just viewed it as an endgame sort of thing for my PCs. There's just some things the game can't properly simulate. I knew that Byn lieutenant was as high as one of my characters was going to get, but it didn't stop him from actively moving towards a second promotion to captain. I just knew that if he ever swung it, that meant my PC got the equivalent of a happy ending. Really, the reward is being able to play a powerful character at all. Sponsored roles enable their player to immediately jump in and Do Fun Shit. That is an extremely cool aspect of these roles. If I ever ran out of Fun Stuff, I would store, and happily. Let someone else take up the reins and have their chance. So many of us are easy-going about hitting a wall with our "normal" characters, finding the mantis head and moving on. Why should it be any different for sponsored roles? They're there to fill out that lower-part-of-the-uppercrust aspect of the game (in many cases), and to make the setting functional. If your character "graduates", let go: you've just won Armageddon. And I'm going to guess that getting to that point was extremely fun, too.

And, I'm probably going to catch some hate for this, but I just have to say it: am I the -only- one who ever felt weird about being in daily contact with a red robe templar?

[musashi]

Yes.  Your experience was very different due to your roleplayed situation, and you should be quite aware of that as well.  Any scenario in which your character is forced to make hard choices due to the way you have roleplayed/used code in the past won't necessarily end with a result you want.

I feel like the subtext of that could be taken to believe you're insinuating that I was either ignoring documentation (ie RP'ing poorly), or abusing code. That's probably not your intent, granted, but just for the sake of clarity, I want to point out that we both know neither of those was the case.

When I say I've had a differing experience, I'm just saying that based on personal experience, staff will in fact, force store you if your sorcerer/defiler/whatever gets too "badass".

It would appear that one does not have to be in a clan for staff to decide that they are becoming something too powerful to remain in everyday play.

[Nyr]

There are two policy decisions in particular that I don't entirely agree with:

The "glass ceiling": I can understand why the game doesn't need PC black-robes, Precentors, heads of Houses, and other people of extreme power and seclusion. I can also understand, to an extent, the desire to keep players away from lower promotions, like red-robe or mid-level senior positions - because if there's only one person in a certain group that deserves it, they will become more powerful than the others that don't yet. What I don't understand is why it was allowed in the past, and why it was taken away after it was seemingly successful.

Veteran players may remember - and remember well - characters like Samos, Serilla, Elithan, etc. who were all promoted just one step up from where they started, and still seemed to contribute greatly to goings-on while maintaining their position well ICly. Perhaps players of those long-gone characters could chime in on their own experiences. While rewards for characters that deserve them are great, it seems that they are not given out often, if at all. I would wager that this is one of the reasons why some people, likely Achiever-types, in long-lived sponsored roles store - because after a point there are less places to go, less things to do, and it feels more and more like they're not being noticed for what they are managing to do.

Veteran staffers remember them well and did not have problems with the players. 

That one-step-up promotion surely doesn't work in Allanak.  I've reviewed several e-mails between staff and the player of Samos as well as other players where even the player OF the Red Robe is saying that there are plenty of OOC and even IC misunderstandings about the vast gulf between the average person (even Privates) and the role of a Red Robe.  I'll reiterate once more:  it doesn't work.  Could we make another fake rank between Blue Robe and Red Robe?  Maybe.  Could we do what we already do, and provide lateral promotions/moves/etc like I've mentioned before?  Yep.

The one-step-up promotion barely worked in Tuluk, for similar reasons. 

[Nyr]

Yes.  Your experience was very different due to your roleplayed situation, and you should be quite aware of that as well.  Any scenario in which your character is forced to make hard choices due to the way you have roleplayed/used code in the past won't necessarily end with a result you want.

I feel like the subtext of that could be taken to believe you're insinuating that I was either ignoring documentation (ie RP'ing poorly), or abusing code. That's probably not your intent, granted, but just for the sake of clarity, I want to point out that we both know neither of those was the case.

When I say I've had a differing experience, I'm just saying that based on personal experience, staff will in fact, force store you if your sorcerer/defiler/whatever gets too "badass".

It would appear that one does not have to be in a clan for staff to decide that they are becoming something too powerful to remain in everyday play.

That is not what I was saying.  Your roleplay was fine.  The roleplay of your character, however, did not match your character's actual coded pursuits.  We animated the gameworld and communicated with you to create a plot around that discrepancy.  You took it as a personal offense.  I see you still take it as one, and that is unfortunate.

[musashi]

I did, yes, and I still think it was handled poorly overall, at least in the way it was conveyed to me as a player, but that's all water under the bridge at this point.

I'm not posting with a sense of animosity. My point is just to say that given what you said here:

This is unrelated.  We won't store someone for being a badass sorcerer/defiler/whatever, or a bender of unspeakable power, or for being a Thrain Ironsword.

It struck me as slightly incorrect. Because it does seem related, at least from where I'm sitting; because a character can be stored for becoming a sorcerer/defiler/whatever of unspeakable power. They get told that their character is growing so strong that they are turning into [left out so as not to share IC info] ... and those aren't playable by PC's, just like red robes, senior nobles, ect.

[Synthesis]

I don't see the problem with that.

[Nyr]

Just because your PC was a badass whatever doesn't mean your PC faced storage for that reason.