Health Regen

[maxid]

jhunter, speaking out for the persecuted minority he has invented in his head.

Staff has done a great job, especially in the past year or two, and you've spent literally years complaining about every single new addition or change to the code or theme of this MUD. 

For content: I don't see anything wrong with nosave regen, but I doubt it's high on the priority list.

[My 2 sids]

Actually,  what I believe what Jhunter is saying is relevant to the discussion.  See, I believe the larger point is that there is a danger in trying to code everything, the danger being code downplays/flat out inhibits roleplay.  No, this isn't a MUSH but collaboration between players must happen so the focus on the game continues to be role-play, not coded achievement.   

No code is going to encompass all that a well-written, creative Ldesc.  And to that extent I think if players (esp new players) get too used to looking to code for information they will over-look/ disreguard role-played information,  like <sdes> is here, nursing a bandaged wrist.

[Spoon]

This is a toggle though, so you can choose to use it or not. The 'conservation' argument is irrelevant to this particular idea, isn't it? This is pretty harmless.

Worst case scenario, people who don't want to use the toggle RP being hurt, and have some nitwit come up to them and say "duh.... but u arnt hurt, assess says ur in excellent condition". But people who do things like that will always fuck up one way or another.

[Medivh]

jhunter, your complaints are meaningless because you're not giving logical explanation for why those are bad for the game, only why they annoy you, personally.  

I'm sure I'm not the only one that doesn't like them, just the only one with the balls to step up and say so and take the harrassment and abuse for it. I -know- there are others out there who feel the same way but choose not to discuss it because of this very thing right here. Just because you don't agree, it does not make my complaints meaningless. It's pretty damned rude to say so. It lessens my enjoyment of the game and -that- is completely reason enough and is an acceptable answer whether you agree or not. Anyway, I'm not going to continue to derail this thread arguing about it because nothing will happen, I'll just continue to watch the game go downhill until it hits the point where I can no longer tolerate it and then kiss it goodbye. You're not giving a logical explanation for your arguement, only why you prefer one of them personally, does that negate your argument and make it meaningless? No. I've seen a few code changes that definitely -add- to ease of mechanics and overall enjoyment of the game, I've seen just as many that do not add to such.

A change isn't bad for the game simply because you don't enjoy it.

Seeing that most of us play a game for -enjoyment-, logic would dictate that this is an incorrect answer. Most people don't play games they don't enjoy. Enjoyment is one hundred percent the reason for me to play any game.

Anyway, I'd be fine with being able to toggle regen off and on. I'm just not interested in any idea that would require having to codedly sleep -more- in order to completely heal.

Marshmellow, the complaint is not meaningless. That is rather rude.
He is saying he dislikes parts of the code. That they are frustrating, annoying, and unneeded.
Others agree with him. I remember some of the threads when the new code was being discussed. Not everyone agreed then.
Meaning, others do in fact dislike part of the code, because they are frustrating, annoying, and unneeded.
This would cause people to quit the game. (Just like Jhunter thinks about.)
Which I would consider bad for the game.

Jhunter, a change isn't bad for the game. Even if you, personally, don't enjoy it. It might be bad for -you-, however.
Cutthroat is pretty much right with that statement.

Sure you can pick out a few gems but that doesn't mean that all the code changes implemented in recent years were for the better. And I disagree about the ride code. I'd rather stare at screens of refuses to move than have to keep waiting through a delay and entering "mount critter" over and over again.
Reel added no tangible benefit to enjoyment of the game.
The current ride system does not add to my enjoyment of the game.
Stamina use on top of additional combat delays for certain commands is annoying and overcomplicated, IMO.
Stun use for certain commands, just plain has no sensible logic to it and adds nothing to enjoyment of the game. I'm suddenly easier to knock out because I'm listening carefully? Good Grief.
The crazy amounts of delays added to alot of commands in the game. I swear, I spend more time sitting in a coded delay from -something- rather than moving on to other things now days.
Those are a few I can think of off the top of my head. Which are some of the things I was concerned about in times past when such suggestions were brought up and it turns out they -are- adversely affecting my enjoyment of this game. I feel that the game is mechanically heading the direction of other games that I -didn't- play because I was annoyed with how things worked. I chose Arm in part because of the theme, in part because of the quality of roleplay, and in part because the mechanics were enjoyable enough to deal with especially when compared to others out there. The theme and the quality of roleplaying are still there (for the most part) but the mechanics are becoming frustrating to me and are detracting from my enjoyment of the only mud I've ever enjoyed long enough to continue play anywhere near this long. I don't think I played any other mud more than maybe a few hours total. I see it slipping away and feel that an era is coming to an end. While I was looking forward to 2.0 to some degree, I'm starting to feel that the current state of the game is an indicator that I likely won't be around with 2.0 more than trying it out for a few hours and becoming frustrated with it.
Overall, I'm just kinda bummed when I encounter alot of the new code changes and after giving them an honest effort, think to myself: this was better before.

*Lights a smoke and puts on his blindfold.*
Fire away.

Ready, steady, RELEASE! 
It isn't hard to max out ride, unless your a ranger.
Non ranger maxed out ride has almost no issues if you have both hands free.
I have even had entire fights mounted, as a non ranger, and finished the combat without falling. It wasn't that the fight was short btw.

Reeling? Reel, disengage, and backstab. (Charge, flee self, throw, kill, kick, disarm, pick up items, etc. also apply.)
It adds a whole new variable into the combat. I like it, as it makes it deadly. (And fun.)
It also makes the endurance stat more valuable, as it helps you resist reeling.

Delays have been around for as long as I can remember.
Stop spamming skills? Learn how long the delays are and change tactics accordingly? Use the spare time to emote?
Everyone has to deal with the same code btw. I don't see the issue.
Stamina use isn't that big a deal, honestly.

Stun use doesn't really have that much logic in it, I agree.
So I assume it is for balance reasons, otherwise why code it?

[maxid]

What jhunter is saying might be relevant, if it wasn't the same ol, tired appeal to tradition that he always makes.  The addition of a single toggle would do almost nothing to complicate your Rp experience.

[FantasyWriter]

Sooooo....

What do you guys think about having the ability to turn off and on YOUR OWN health regen?
This of course would be an OPTIONAL tool to help aide in roleplay FOR THOSE WHO WANT TO USE IT?

/rerail

[maxid]

Sooooo....

What do you guys think about having the ability to turn off and on YOUR OWN health regen?
This of course would be an OPTIONAL tool to help aide in roleplay FOR THOSE WHO WANT TO USE IT?

/rerail

This sounds like a well thought out, easy to implement, unobtrusive addition to an already excellently coded game.  Although, one that is of low priority.

[Medivh]

Sooooo....

What do you guys think about having the ability to turn off and on YOUR OWN health regen?
This of course would be an OPTIONAL tool to help aide in roleplay FOR THOSE WHO WANT TO USE IT?

/rerail

I vote yes. 

[Barsook]

Sooooo....

What do you guys think about having the ability to turn off and on YOUR OWN health regen?
This of course would be an OPTIONAL tool to help aide in roleplay FOR THOSE WHO WANT TO USE IT?

/rerail

I vote yes. 

[Marshmellow]

I didn't say that jhunter's wants/desires were meaningless or that what he thinks is good/bad for the game is the opposite.  I said only (with fewer words) that if he can only tell us that he doesn't like it, he has no place entering debate on it.  I'm sorry that I didn't make this clearer and that I was misunderstood as a result.

He should explain why they are bad for the game.  I myself have had issues with many of the things he's mentioned, but not one single experience that has happened AFTER the staff were done tweaking the code changes he's mentioned that are so bad, or at least not as bad as he and others have tried to make it out to be, like ride for example.

I have ridden a mount from Red Storm to Tuluk and back quite a few times, only falling off my mount twice since the ride code was updated.  For that reason, I can't see the system failing.  I have seen staff explain to the people that have complained that they were riding crappy mounts while having crappy skill in crappy terrain, which seems to explain the difficulties that people have reported and that I have not seen.  Therefore he will need to explain why this is a problem to me, because I see no data, only opinion, so far.

Make a meaningful complaint, please.  Explain, please.  Don't just say, "No, sir.  Didn't like it."  Everyone else was explaining.  He didn't.

[maxid]

I wasn't trying to troll or anything I'm just pointing out that 'no i dont like it no changes!!!' is the epitome of a jhunter post.  They never have backing, or reasons or logic.  Even after repeatedly being asked for it.  I was just saying it was pointless to engage jhunter, he doesn't respect anyone else's opinions enough to actually enter a debate where he might be proven wrong.

[Gunnerblaster]

I'm against health regen-limits.

Why should PC's be crippled even more by the code when NPC's don't?

FW originally just wanted an ability to turn health Regen off.

Final Conclusion
Yes, to toggable health regen.
No, to (more) forced healing limits.

[RogueGunslinger]

I'd be all for this feature if it's implementation didn't conflict with the staffs ability to put in other things I want more. Sounds like a great idea!

I'm one of those "persecuted" "imagined" non-vocal minorities that Jhunter is talking about. Whether it has anything specific to do with this topic. I'd just like to point out that Maxid, Marshmellow, and those on the opposing side of the argument are WRONG. Thank you.

I'd also like to point out that Jhunter pointed out that he was arguing an idea unrelated to the implementation of this specific code, and therefore arguments pointing out that this specific code is "an optional tool" Isn't related to what he's arguing. You're arguing against a straw man that you made yourself.

[maxid]

I'd be all for this feature if it's implementation didn't conflict with the staffs ability to put in other things I want more. Sounds like a great idea!

I'm one of those "persecuted" "imagined" non-vocal minorities that Jhunter is talking about. Whether it has anything specific to do with this topic. I'd just like to point out that Maxid, Marshmellow, and those on the opposing side of the argument are WRONG. Thank you.

Those two statements are entirely contradictory.  You think the code is a good idea, but are also part of the minority that wants to see no changes?

Try again.

[Kalai]

I'd be all for this feature if it's implementation didn't conflict with the staffs ability to put in other things I want more. Sounds like a great idea!

I'm one of those "persecuted" "imagined" non-vocal minorities that Jhunter is talking about. Whether it has anything specific to do with this topic. I'd just like to point out that Maxid, Marshmellow, and those on the opposing side of the argument are WRONG. Thank you.

Those two statements are entirely contradictory.  You think the code is a good idea, but are also part of the minority that wants to see no changes?

Try again.

He's part of a minority that doesn't want to see particular changes set forth in a derail/further brainstorming.
He wants to see the change proposed of a regen toggle.

[RogueGunslinger]

I'd be all for this feature if it's implementation didn't conflict with the staffs ability to put in other things I want more. Sounds like a great idea!

I'm one of those "persecuted" "imagined" non-vocal minorities that Jhunter is talking about. Whether it has anything specific to do with this topic. I'd just like to point out that Maxid, Marshmellow, and those on the opposing side of the argument are WRONG. Thank you.

Those two statements are entirely contradictory.  You think the code is a good idea, but are also part of the minority that wants to see no changes?

Try again.

I'm not at all surprised that is how you see things.

[maxid]

I'm not at all surprised that is how you see things.

I, too, am unsurprised that I can read.


edit: But let's get this back on topic, and not just make this a pissing contest, eh Rogue?

[Zoltan]

I'm against health regen-limits.

Why should PC's be crippled even more by the code when NPC's don't?

There's a line between playability and just plain-fucking-stupid.

Edited to add:
And you're all retarded. FW originally just wanted an ability to turn health Regen off. He didn't want to launch into some epic, "you need to sleep to get your health back" discussion.

Seriously, guys. You must have ADD or something.

Final Conclusion
Yes, to toggable health regen.
No, to forced healing limits.

I don't have ADD. I brought up a different but related idea early on in the thread, before it got all... violent. My post wasn't even epic. And then I said something like "my idea's likely needlessly complicated, though." FW's idea was fine and dandy on its own. See, Gunner, there's this thing that happens on discussion boards where discussions broaden and evolve. It happens. Sorry.

Also, we already have a regen limit. Yes, NPCs have that advantage over PCs. Most problem NPCs make up for it by being as dumb as a box of rocks, and far away from civilization.

You should drink less Haterade before posting on the GDB, man.

[Gunnerblaster]

I don't have ADD. I brought up a different but related idea early on in the thread, before it got all... violent. My post wasn't even epic. And then I said something like "my idea's likely needlessly complicated, though." FW's idea was fine and dandy on its own. See, Gunner, there's this thing that happens on discussion boards where discussions broaden and evolve. It happens. Sorry.

Also, we already have a regen limit. Yes, NPCs have that advantage over PCs. Most problem NPCs make up for it by being as dumb as a box of rocks, and far away from civilization.

You should drink less Haterade before posting on the GDB, man.

Yeah. You're right. I was a bit off the handle there, so I'm going to go back & edit it out but even though they both involve health regen, putting multiple health cap's onto a PC seems alot more difficult then simply enabling a toggle to turn health regen on/off.

And I wasn't saying you, personally, had ADD Zoltan but I was referencing to everyone else who started some sort've fight over something Jhunter posted in response. I liked FW's original idea, even if I didn't like yours. That's why I put, at the end of my original post, my opinions on both topics.

And, fyi, I drink Powerthirst. Yeah.

[drunkendwarf]

Holy shit people.
The OP was:
Can I has pleze a way to turn off health regen?

I tossed into the mix:
Can I also has pleze a way to damage my character as I see fit?

Both of these are optional. Both of these do not detract from the game for anyone that does not wish to use them. Either of these (especialy the second) could be...dare I suggest.. a karma restricted command, if it's really deemed necessary (which I don't think it should be). Any discussion further than this shouldn't really belong in this thread. Even my suggestion should perhaps be kicked onto it's own thread.

[Marshmellow]

You don't even know what side of the argument I'm on.  I didn't say what side of the argument I'm on when it comes to this topic.  I just had to respond to jhunter trying to take over this thread with the complaints we've heard many times.

If you're talking about the other code issues?  I didn't even say what side of the argument I'm on for those topics.  (Except for ride, which I still think is fine for all the reasons that Nyr has given multiple times and which I have already rehashed.)  All of that is off-topic, though, a derailment and/or an attempt to hijack the thread with jhunter's crusade against all the things he doesn't like.

I'm for this idea, actually.  I didn't feel the need to say so since support seemed in favor of this already from the first few posts, the only opposition being, "Well, you can just RP around it," which was likewise already addressed.

[Qzzrbl]

And this, folks, is why derailing a thread can be bad.

[My 2 sids]

Holy shit people.
The OP was:
Can I has pleze a way to turn off health regen?

I tossed into the mix:
Can I also has pleze a way to damage my character as I see fit?

Both of these are optional. Both of these do not detract from the game for anyone that does not wish to use them. Either of these (especialy the second) could be...dare I suggest.. a karma restricted command, if it's really deemed necessary (which I don't think it should be). Any discussion further than this shouldn't really belong in this thread. Even my suggestion should perhaps be kicked onto it's own thread.

Just pointing out that there are THREE logical and on-topic arguments going on, one of which most seem to be missing.  One,  that these are good ideas; two, they are bad ideas; and three that they are unnecessary ideas.   Unnecessary code doesn't just offer choices, they distract from role-play so in that regard it isn't a simple matter of "not using it".  Down the road newbie ~assess <sdesc> sees that code-wise their fine and totally disregards any emotes or ldesc which may state otherwise because Newbie has been conditioned to rely so heavily upon code they stop looking to the role-play.   

The derailment in this thread was a witch-hunt,  not an off topic statement.  Hopefully, now at least people can see all three arguments as being logical and relevant?

[najdorf]

In SOI mud, there was a bind command. If you dont bind the wound, you keep loosing small amounts of blood.
It can be used in armageddon to let you bleed to a certain level. Then, player can bind the wound at a point where additional help is required to get HP up.

Of course, only hard blows might cause blood loss, such as 15 hp+