Did half-giants get smarter suddenly?

[sprucebark]

In the past two weeks I've seen what I think is a downward spiral in half-giant roleplay.
Can they be crafty?  Sure.  Funny?  Sure.
But, I keep seeing half-giants whose roleplay so obviously reveals the intelligent player
behind them.  I can't even picture the character sometimes, just a person trying to
get further in the game.

Is it just me?

[Is Friday]

Player complaints. Not GDB posts.

[Majikal]

In the past two weeks decades I've seen what I think is a downward spiral in half-giant roleplay.

[Gunnerblaster]

My idea of Half-giants are basically 9 year olds in the bodies of hulking monsters.

[Drayab]

Player complaints. Not GDB posts.

Use this for complaints regarding an Armageddon player, be it outside the game or performed in the game through a player character.

Your complaint will not be forwarded to the player in question. This is only to report violations of game rules, not provide critique of play.

There doesn't seem to be a good place to complain about poorly played half giants except for posting ambiguously on the GDB. I don't think being too clever counts as violating the rules. I went as far as the player complaint tool myself recently, but stopped when I read that.

[Riev]

Not every HG plays like every HG in the game. If you don't think someone is roleplaying accordingly, that is a valid section for a player complaint. This is if, and only if, you feel the particular roleplaying is horribly against documentation, such as a half-giant playing at being smart, quick-witted, and whatnot.

If, however, you feel someone is playing a race in a manner that you personally find inappropriate, I have to go with the cut and dry "Deal with it".

Sorry, but thats just how it is. Either complain to staff, who can assess the situation, or shut up. Saying something on the GDB is hurtful to other players, whether they currently have a HG pc, or not.

[bcw81]

I will never play a HG because I fear I'll make a long lived one by accident and fail at roleplaying after so long.

[janeshephard]

Documentation clearly states they're "infamously stupid."

[Drayab]

If you don't think someone is roleplaying accordingly, that is a valid section for a player complaint.

I disagree. If you go to the tool, you will see it clearly states that it is only to be used for violating the rules and specifically states that it is not to be used to point out bad roleplaying. There is not a rule that says you have to play according to the documentation, but I'd like to think that somebody with karma to play a half giant could be trusted to do so.

http://www.armageddon.org/general/rules.html

[Riev]

If you don't think someone is roleplaying accordingly, that is a valid section for a player complaint.

I disagree. If you go to the tool, you will see it clearly states that it is only to be used for violating the rules and specifically states that it is not to be used to point out bad roleplaying. There is not a rule that says you have to play according to the documentation, but I'd like to think that somebody with karma to play a half giant could be trusted to do so.

http://www.armageddon.org/general/rules.html

1 karma players can special app Half Giants.

Be the change you want to see.

Sending in a player complaint regarding their roleplay of specific scenes is definitely taken seriously by staff. I've had my fair share of complaints, believe me.

[Drayab]

Yeah, and actually, I am going to contradict myself now.

Roleplaying is defined as the act of using your character to play out the role of that character, not yourself (the player sitting at the keyboard). Different people have different ideas of what it means to roleplay. What matters is that if you want to play this game, you will need to adhere to the staff's definition of roleplaying. Roleplaying is more than the use of the emote command. It means that you act as your character, in as realistic a way as possible; when deciding what your character will do next, you need to base it on what he/she knows (or could reasonably be expected to know, such as general information about the game world), not on what you (the player) know.

From now on, I am going to interpret that is an implicit requirement to reasonably follow the documentation.

[Gunnerblaster]

To be honest, I don't see a problem in this thread.

He isn't point out anyone in specific. The topic of the thread could have been worded a little different to reflect a discussion of half-giant personalities.

I think that, whoever plays a half-giant now, if they read this - Will/Should take a moment to recheck their own playing habits.

It's difficult, I would think, for an intelligent player to not, even if accidentally, portray some of their own intelligence into their characters.

[Dakota]

To be honest, I don't see a problem in this thread.

Just want to throw in my 2 sids.

Since playing Arm from May of this year I've met like... well.. a few HGs that I've RP'd with for long periods of time. Only -one- I would say was infamously stupid or that you could regard as "stupid". Well RP'd all around. Sent that player a much deserved kudos. The others I've met were... well... pretty damn smart and cunning.

That being said, I think each character really writes his own make up in the end regardless of templates. But yes. HGs are pretty smart from what I've experienced.

[Cutthroat]

Chances are that anyone playing half-giants against the ton of documentation written for them will either miss this point of this thread or ignore it unless a staff member tells them. That is why player complaints are encouraged when rules are broken, because the staff actually have authority, and players' complaints on the GDB can just be brushed off easily. And yes, in my opinion playing against basic documentation that applies to 100% of the PCs, NPCs, and vNPCs of your race is against the rules unless you're playing a spec-apped and approved mutant that acts differently. Playing a cunning half-giant is like playing a dwarf without a focus, an elf that rides a mount, and so on. It just flies in the face of whatever was written out for that race.

Anyway, I think it is hard to play a half-giant. You never really know a player's background and prior characters when you encounter one. Maybe they are used to playing conniving characters and can't help themselves. I have admired players that are able to do half-giants well. But try to cut them some slack, too. They're playing a restrictive role. Watch them over a long period of time before you decide whether their effort is genuine or they're just playing stupidly. That goes for every difficult role imaginable.

[Niamh]

Using the GDB to discuss half-giant roleplay is acceptable.

Using the GDB to complain about the roleplay of other players is not acceptable.

[janeshephard]

Not to add wood to the fire but the same goes for dwarves and elves. Dwarves are stubborn, hairless, and focused. Elves are mistrusting, cunning, stealing scum.

At least in most instances.

Clearly, there are some situations where your HG should act a little more mature, and your dwarf should be paying better attention to some distraction, and your elf better keep his con-game in check. Like a giant monster chasing them across the Known or a sorcerer turning them into a bonfire.

[X-D]

Can I complain about Cold toes?


And Dwarves are 0 karma. Elves for the most part are as well.

99% of HGs ever played in arm are horrible....make that 99.99%

Complaining to staff on the matter does little. They are almost never caught by staff and often will last a goodly time of horribleness before dying somehow then rolling another horrible HG and you the player sit and wonder how they got another.

The funny thing about it, and this I know from experiance, You can have a genius HG, as long as he talks like an idiot staff will never say anything, but if you play to the docs and have one that talks smart, but IS a moron you will get called out by staff for not playing to the docs.

Take muls out and put HG to mul karma.

Oh, and make that a 3 year old not 9.

and HG are not immature, they are stupid, one who is limited by nature cannot suddenly become less stupid.

[lordcooper]

A HG who spends a lot of time around smart people wouldm probably also appear smart though.

At least at first glance.

[Salt Merchant]

One thing that may help is to give your half-giant specific traits, rather than just a general label "stupid".

I've played one half-giant and don't really know if he fell into the 99% or not. One trait I tried to give him, though, was to be forgetful. For example, his backpack was stolen while he slept and he simply forgot he had one.

Another trait was to think about a situation, reach a wrong conclusion, and act on it. For example, he was yelled at by a templer for sleeping while some shit was going on, and decided the templar was mad because he was sleeping in a particular room, and started sleeping thereafter in a different room rather than fixing his behaviour.

[Medena]

I think that, whoever plays a half-giant now, if they read this - Will/Should take a moment to recheck their own playing habits.

I wish that threads like this could/would serve some constructive purpose but I fear they really do not.  In fact, they probably just serve to make the players of HG's feel defensive.

Way back when I first rolled up an HG it was my very first karma role and so I spent literally hours and hours pouring over the docs, assessing how the traits described in the docs could be translated into my character concept, etc. etc.  I'm sure every other first time player of an HG also puts a lot of effort into their concept and their RP, not wanting to screw it up.

Roleplaying stupidity is not as monolithic as some people would seem to suggest. There are many faces to stupidity, many ways it manifests, many kinds of thinking .... and on and on.  The majority of the time in these threads the critics don't offer anything constructive, mainly because they think there is only one way to play an HG:  their way.

[Riev]

Anyway, I think it is hard to play a half-giant. You never really know a player's background and prior characters when you encounter one.

Watch them over a long period of time before you decide whether their effort is genuine or they're just playing stupidly. That goes for every difficult role imaginable.

Oh, and make that a 3 year old not 9.

and HG are not immature, they are stupid, one who is limited by nature cannot suddenly become less stupid.

And everything that Medena posted.

As a sometime player of Half-Giants, this thread has made me feel incredibly defensive, and confused. If my play of a half-giant was or is so colossally bad, why has nobody called me out on it? Am -I- the one playing the half-giants the OP and everyone else is talking about?

I'd like to think I put in a lot of effort into the way I play my PCs, but I guess its not up to standards for everyone else. This thread really disappoints me, and rather than offer constructive criticism and examples (some have), people are just complaining and pointing back to the documentation. I almost feel like not playing HGs anymore, because I must not be capable. Sorry, Arm.

[X-D]

Your right There are many types of stupidity, But we are not talking about them.

HG have a very specific and well documented type of stupidity.

And it is not that I or others think the HG should be played my way but the documented way.

Sorry Riev, I will try and be a bit more constructive. Let me give an example of something bad, less then 2 years old.

HG1 gets in a fight with another PC, HG 1 ways HG2 and with HG2 plans and orchistrates an ambush. And not just Lets chase bad dude down and crush him, But, You wait here, I'll go back here, then when bad dude comes for me, You wait and I will chase him to you.

HG understanding cause, affect, with the ability to imagine possible eventualities, all clearly against docs. If you were playing that HG, then yes, your one of the 99%

Thing is, this level of planning ability in PC HGs is NOT rare, it is the norm in which they are played.

As to the rest of your post, sorry, but really the most constructive thing another player can do is complain and point at the docs.

[spacewars]

I believe somewhere in the HG doc's (Unless i'm wrong) says that HG are adaptive to there climate. Such as if a HG which is dumb is always around a noble Player (Very Proper) The HG (Not Proper) will slowly start to pick up on his climate and they way others talk. This doesn't make them smart but adaptive. Of course i could be using the wrong wording but it seems someone talked to me about this at one point.

[Thunkkin]

The reason I don't play H-Gs is because I know I would over-analyze everything until it was no longer fun. Every time I did something that someone had taught me, I would wonder if all the PCs were rolling their eyes because they assumed my character was coming up with the action/plan on his own. H-Gs are excellent imitators. That's in the docs. Have they seen someone else set an ambush? Have they been taught (slowly and carefully) to set one? If that's impossible, then there certainly shouldn't be H-G soldiers and guards.

I suppose you think H-G warriors shouldn't get the disarm skill because that requires planning? And on and on. Ugh.

EDIT: Moreover, how would an h-g ever beat anyone in combat without just getting lucky? We know this isn't the case. H-Gs are amazing soldiers and fighters. But any fighter will tell you that brute strength counts for very little if you couldn't move tactically, anticipate, plan, etc.

[spicemustflow]

I don't know about HG intelligence, there were a couple very well played ones that I saw. What I'd like to see is that the players of HGs show some restraint before resorting to coded actions. When you can two-hit kill many PCs, I think it's your duty to give them ample clues about what you're going to do next. Otherwise you risk that your very entrance makes people reach for their 'flee' alias.