Gender equality

[jhunter]

The only issue I've ever had with this rule is that it creates an unrealistic aspect of the gameworld. Realistically, sexism would exist/or not in different cultures throughout the game. Each different culture in the gameworld would have varying views. I would love for it not to exist in -some- cultures, but also for other cultures to have it in different ways to different degrees. Patriarchal societies and matriarchal societies, etc. I think it would add alot to realism and depth. Unfortunately, the RL feminazis and their minions won't have it, in my opinion furthering RL gender issues, but that's another story.

[HavokBlue]

Your concept of realism seems to be based off the real world though. If we take it that for the most part, gender is utterly irrelevant in Zalanthas, why would it be unrealistic to that setting for there to be a lack of sexism?

[Barzalene]

The only issue I've ever had with this rule is that it creates an unrealistic aspect of the gameworld. Realistically, sexism would exist/or not in different cultures throughout the game. Each different culture in the gameworld would have varying views. I would love for it not to exist in -some- cultures, but also for other cultures to have it in different ways to different degrees. Patriarchal societies and matriarchal societies, etc. I think it would add alot to realism and depth. Unfortunately, the RL feminazis and their minions won't have it, in my opinion furthering RL gender issues, but that's another story.

I am a feminazi, but I like you. And I think you often have interesting ideas. What forms would this sexism take?

[Lizzie]

Your concept of realism seems to be based off the real world though. If we take it that for the most part, gender is utterly irrelevant in Zalanthas, why would it be unrealistic to that setting for there to be a lack of sexism?

Gender is not irrelevant. Males in Zalanthas are not capable of pregnancy and childbirth. Males in Zalanthas are not capable of *reguilarly* lactating to the extent that they would make useful wetnurses (yes I know about male lactation).

I'd say gender is a lot more relevant than some players would like it to be. When males get "light duty" in combat-based clan roles in their last couple weeks of pregnancy and the couple weeks following childbirth, it'll be "equal."

I don't buy the whole gender equality thing in Zalanthas. The docs say it's so, but the docs are wrong. The genders are not equal. Their *potentials" are equal. Their *opportunities* are equal. They're capable of equal coded stats (except height, I believe). But males cannot die in childbirth. So no. They're not equal.

[Marshmellow]

There is indeed sexism in the game in small pockets here and there.  Some of it is surprising.  As I mentioned, there are families/tribes/micro-cultures with quirks that I could only call sexist behaviour.

[jhunter]

The only issue I've ever had with this rule is that it creates an unrealistic aspect of the gameworld. Realistically, sexism would exist/or not in different cultures throughout the game. Each different culture in the gameworld would have varying views. I would love for it not to exist in -some- cultures, but also for other cultures to have it in different ways to different degrees. Patriarchal societies and matriarchal societies, etc. I think it would add alot to realism and depth. Unfortunately, the RL feminazis and their minions won't have it, in my opinion furthering RL gender issues, but that's another story.

I am a feminazi, but I like you. And I think you often have interesting ideas. What forms would this sexism take?

You're my favorite feminazi. ;P Some of the tribal societies could be like a lion pride where the males are mostly a useless spermbag while the females do all the hunting, etc. Males are considered only good for what's between their legs and aren't allowed to touch weapons, etc. Or like some tribes here on earth, the females take on several mates and generally run the tribe while males are mated to their one female for life. The higher standing in the tribe the female has, the more mates she has as well. The interaction when these types encounter other cultures would be interesting. I also think there should be a "sorceror queen" ruling one of the major cities isntead of a king.

[flurry]

I'm happy with the official policies and find it creates an interesting environment in which to roleplay.

The genders are not equal.

You start with way more free stuff/protection/importance as a female. Males don't get free stuff.

There's no doubt that some real-world sexist attitudes/behavior carry over into the game, often from newer players. The "free stuff" phenomenon, although perhaps overstated, happens sometimes. I find it more of an unwelcome annoyance rather than an advantage of any kind.

[Marshmellow]

The thing is with lions, the male is indeed just a carrier of valuable genetic material and the women do all the work, but there are very few males and lots of females.  The alpha male drives off or kills any adult contender for his title.  Finally one that is strong enough supplants him and is the new alpha who promptly kills off all cubs of the newly defeated ex-alpha.  His is the valuable seed and others are no longer allowed.  Is this the females dominating and it's a matriarchy?  I don't think so.

In other cultures where males are the hunters, females can still dominate.  In species where there are low rates of female births, or low rates of fertile female births, males or infertile females are the go to for the disposable work-force, since the species only needs breeders to survive.

[jhunter]

The thing is with lions, the male is indeed just a carrier of valuable genetic material and the women do all the work, but there are very few males and lots of females.  The alpha male drives off or kills any adult contender for his title.  Finally one that is strong enough supplants him and is the new alpha who promptly kills off all cubs of the newly defeated ex-alpha.  His is the valuable seed and others are no longer allowed.  Is this the females dominating and it's a matriarchy?  I don't think so.

I don't think I stated that it was. I just said one that was similar in -that particular- aspect.

[Drayab]

Just because the genders are equal doesn't mean they are the same.

To treat the other gender equally doesn't imply that you ignore their gender. The woman with the bone swords wants to be a woman and a warrior, not just a warrior. However, for this to work you'll have to put aside real life notions of gender and adopt something Zalanthan to replace it. To do this doesn't require you to ignore that women pop out babies and men plant the seeds. That's sexual function. Sexual function and gender are inexorably entwined, but they don't necessarily have to be the way they are in real life.

[jstorrie]

feminazis

Using this word is like making yourself a big "I'm a moron" sign in Comic Sans. Careful, man.

[Jingo]

Gender equality in Zalanthas would realistically bring up all kinds of social issues in reality.

Here's one to think about. How would the cities maintain such a large population unless every woman of age was producing children? Free and equal women arn't usually too keen on having more than one or two, just like in our own society. So unless they are shackled down via the institution of marriage, they wouldn't be the baby factories they have been for several hundreads of years. So therefore, I don't see how non-modern, militirized state society could have equality of the sexes anyways.

The current setup isn't realistic at all. But I'm fine with throwing that out the window for what we got going here.

[Kalai]

Do infants fetch a good enough price to justify making them for that sake?

[Barzalene]

Do infants fetch a good enough price to justify making them for that sake?

No, but they're worth stealing.

[Jingo]

Do infants fetch a good enough price to justify making them for that sake?

Probably the biggest payoff here is that if group A employs this strategy, it will be bigger than any group that doesn't.

[BlackMagic0]

Do infants fetch a good enough price to justify making them for that sake?

I shall now make a dwarf with the focus to create a infant farm.

[Scarecrow]

Do infants fetch a good enough price to justify making them for that sake?

I shall now make a dwarf with the focus to create a infant farm.

Mudsexxor Industries: FTB or all the way, we deliver!

[jhunter]

feminazis

Using this word is like making yourself a big "I'm a moron" sign in Comic Sans. Careful, man.

That's a matter of opinion. I don't believe so. I happen to believe that alot of feminists are very hypocritical and sexist themselves. I also believe that alot of the things that "feminazis" complain about actually create more division and gender-bias than actually help solve anything. You would be a male feminazi if you think "using the term is like making yourself a big "I'm a moron" sign". What I use a term that describes a hypocritical feminist and suddenly I'm a moron? I can't point out that I believe many of them are "wrong"  about how they go about their -supposed- desire for equality without being called a moron?

feminazi

noun.
1) a feminist who refuses to subscribe to logic
2) a manhater
3) dislikes all men because of the societal pressures women face, but is unwilling to concede to the fact that the sentiment is perpetuated by both sexes
4) aggressive towards men because of their sex
5) promoter of reverse sexual discrimination; often feels her sexism is justified because of the "attrocities endured by women"
6) does not adhere to the philosophy of feminism, but instead promotes a simplified, inaccurate, uniformed view


To clarify, I'm not calling all feminists feminazis. I have no problem with true feminists although personally I think they should be called equalists if the set goal is true.

[jstorrie]

Let me remind you of another definition: nazi, n. A member of a horrific fascist movement which actively engaged in wholesale slaughter, genocide, and evil nearly unmatched in all of human history.

If you seriously think that feminists and nazis should actually be equated, I don't think there's any point in further discourse. But maybe when you're done getting defensive you'll spare some time to think on how offensive and shameful the word feminazi really is.

[jhunter]

Let me remind you of another definition: nazi, n. A member of a horrific fascist movement which actively engaged in wholesale slaughter, genocide, and evil nearly unmatched in all of human history.

If you seriously think that feminists and nazis should actually be equated, I don't think there's any point in further discourse. But maybe when you're done getting defensive you'll spare some time to think on how offensive and shameful the word feminazi really is.

I think you're overanalyzing it and taking it far too literally. Get a grip. I disagree that it is shameful but agree that it might be offensive primarily to those that I would classify as feminazis and that is, as intended.

To clarify, I'm not calling all feminists feminazis. I have no problem with true feminists although personally I think they should be called equalists if the set goal is true.

Just to point this out, since you seem not to have read it or to have disregarded it entirely.

[Nao]

Unfortunately, the RL feminazis and their minions won't have it, in my opinion furthering RL gender issues, but that's another story.

There you're calling people who want to keep the status quo feminazis, I think that's the problem.

[hyzhenhok]

Unfortunately, the RL feminazis and their minions won't have it, in my opinion furthering RL gender issues, but that's another story.

There you're calling people who want to keep the status quo feminazis, I think that's the problem.

No he didn't.

Let's stop pickering over semantics and word usage and get back to the topic, guys.

[lordcooper]

Nobody gets this offended over the term Grammar Nazi.

[Barzalene]

Why are you calling my Grandma a nazi? My grandma was a Jew. And an opera singer. And a nice person. Take it back.

[Barzalene]

And stop picking on Jhunter. We like him. Come play with me, you big dookiehead! It's been 7 years. You're due!