Scan

[Marauder Moe]

This command/skill has been irking me lately.

The emote attached to the command implies that scanning for hidden people is an active endeavor (similar to forage or crafting).  However, it remains enabled for a duration like a passive skill (like listen and watch).  People generally seem to be playing it purely as the latter.

This is inconsistent, and I think it should be resolved one of two ways:

1) Remove the echo. (Or change it, possibly to a hemote or even a recurring hemote.)

2) Make sitting/resting turn it off, and possibly negation/penalties for movement.

As to which solution is best... I think that depends on the staff-intended reality of the skill; whether it's meant to be just a mental state of heightened awareness or it's actually moving around and looking behind crates and under tables, etc.

[Lithium]

Yes please.

[Gunnerblaster]

Change the scan echo to a hemote.

[X-D]

2) Make sitting/resting turn it off, and possibly negation/penalties for movement.

NO!

(Something excised by Oleupata because it dealt with code specifics that shouldn't be discussed on the GDB)

On the movement making it suck, shit man, currently scan sucks more then it ever has in the past, if you want to nerf it more then it already has then make it FAR more powerful in use, if I'm actively searching for people while scanning to the point that I cannot sit, rest, walk, ride, AND it also makes me easier to KO because of the MASSIVE amount of brainpower I seem to be devoting to it then I better fucking find somebody EVERY single time I use the skill once max, and I want to see them come and go from the room unless they get a successful sneak.

[Mendel]

I'd like to remove the echo when you start scanning and add something similar to the watch message you get when you look at or assess someone.  So you can tell they are doing shifty eyes, but it isn't so obvious.

[Dan]

Edited to keep thread on track. I took out a disagreement with scripts and trigger usage in general.

I also think the scan echo could serve as a hemote.

[Barsook]

1) Remove the echo. (Or change it, possibly to a hemote or even a recurring hemote.)

Yeah, should be hiden to the folks who are hiding.  With the echo, it's gonna make them scared that someone is looking for them.  But I think a hemote will be picked up by the person that is hiden.  Shouldn't they not know that the person ,who is scanning, saw them hiding?

[Marshmellow]

Someone seeing you scan doesn't mean the hidden person knows you saw them.  They don't know if you saw them or not.

[Lizzie]

I'd be fine if the echo was changed to say something like:

>The dainty f-me begins to pay closer attention to her surroundings.

Or just get rid of the echo altogether. How does everyone know that I'm paying closer attention, and don't just have an itch in my ear, or dust in my eye making me blink a few times?

Totally agree with XD regarding any other changes to the skill itself.

[Synthesis]

The main problem with scan is that it seems to always fail vs. maxed hide (same thing with listen and sneak, pretty much).

This is probably because of a few things {edit by Oleupata} that I shouldn't mention because the GDB is not the place to discuss code specifics.

[derail]
Also, to get into the metagaming business:  it's really annoying that it echoes -and- it hits you with a pretty long delay.  It's a pretty common cheap tactic to initiate a backstab or other combat on someone immediately after they scan (or contact you), because you get the benefit of their potential flee being delayed by the lag.  Personally, I don't see any reason why scan (or listen) should have a delay on it any longer, now that it is an on/off type command.  The delay was there to prevent people from scan-spamming when scan was an absolute pass/fail type skill...there's absolutely no advantage to spamming scan any longer, so the delay on the command is obsolete.

In fact, I'd prefer ALL delay-type commands be replaced with relative refractory periods only for the particular command being used, or perhaps on related sets of skills.  E.g. (backstab) would hit you with a delay for {bash, disarm, kick} but not {flee, change opponent, barrier, e, s, w, n, u, d, hide, scan, listen, etc.}.  Give it a message that's something generic like "You can't find a good opening." during the refractory period, so you can spam the commands as much as you like, but they won't go through until the delay period is over.

Probably not worth the trouble for 1.Arm, but whoever's doing the combat code for 2.Arm should take this into account.  There's no reason to implement or perpetuate solutions for which a problem no longer exists.
[/derail]

[valeria]

I like Lizzie's suggested echo.  I wouldn't mind if it was a hemote echo. 

In any case, I think that assessing or looking at a person with scan on should return the similar sort of message it does for someone who is watching you.

This would make it more consistent with other perception skills, with how scan works codedly, and with the way most people use it.

[roughneck]

The echo is irritating.

I agree with other posters that there are bigger problems with scan however.  The one making the least sense being the loss of stun, but that's a little bit of a derail I guess.

[Synthesis]

The echo is irritating.

I agree with other posters that there are bigger problems with scan however.  The one making the least sense being the loss of stun, but that's a little bit of a derail I guess.

The stun loss is pretty minimal when you're actually good at it.  If you're regularly getting yourself into situations where 4-5 stun is the difference between life and death, you're going to meet all the mantis heads you deserve.

[Qzzrbl]

The echo is irritating.

I agree with other posters that there are bigger problems with scan however.  The one making the least sense being the loss of stun, but that's a little bit of a derail I guess.

The stun loss is pretty minimal when you're actually good at it.  If you're regularly getting yourself into situations where 4-5 stun is the difference between life and death, you're going to meet all the mantis heads you deserve.

Either way.... It still doesn't make much sense.

[Cutthroat]

When the stun loss was added, it was meant to reflect your character busying him/her/itself with intently scanning the area. If it doesn't make much sense for your character to have that stun loss, then you aren't searching for hidden things that are possibly distracting or hard to pick out of the surroundings, so turn it off.

As to the OP, I think the scan echo should be an hemote, because I think all things related to perception/sight should be, since you can't always tell where a person's eyes are.

[lepxii]

echo: I'd love if it were removed.

stun loss derail: I actually find it useful (and listen too), as I can easily notice when the skill wears off (stun is in my prompt). Would be nicer if it were just perpetually switched on/off without wearing off (but I'm guessing this would probably mess up the skill system in some manner).

[Schrodingers Cat]

or...

3) Add an echo for listening.

4) Add "blink" echos periodically for players that are blink.  This would be great for drunken blinking contests.  (and if you the player have been mudding for an extended period of time this will help you too as a remember to blink also).


</sarcasm>

[Rotten]

stun loss derail: I actually find it useful (and listen too), as I can easily notice when the skill wears off (stun is in my prompt). Would be nicer if it were just perpetually switched on/off without wearing off (but I'm guessing this would probably mess up the skill system in some manner).

The loss of the delay wouldn't have any effect on the viability of any guild.  Thing is, even at max scan, most stealthy guilds will be quite evasive if they don't stand still long enough for people to spam commands at them.  Spamming commands actually reliably simulates an active searcher, and the longer a stealthy person lingers in the room, the more likely they will found.  The only exception is rangers, who always have to deal with massive loss of stamina points (and therefore loss of mobility) whenever using their stealth skills.

[Sephiroto]

If scan has a delay due to the instantaneous effort then so should other skills like guard and listen.  They all take effort to do initially and cost stun stun to maintain, but some of these skills aren't delayed while some are.  It doesn't matter to me one way or another if they have delays, but I think that skills like these should all balance one another.

[jstorrie]

I think that the skills which induce 'passive' or 'reactive' states like guard, listen, scan, and watch should all function in one consistent manner.

I think that they should be toggle-on-able without echoing and without delay. Keep the stun debuff, it's a good balancing factor.

[Sephiroto]

I think that the skills which induce 'passive' or 'reactive' states like guard, listen, scan, and watch should all function in one consistent manner.

Yeah, well said.  I'm not as eloquent.