Unit Type NPC: Pro's Vs. Con's

[Gunnerblaster]

Every now and then, I'll cross paths with "unit type" NPC's. Codedly naked and without weapons - Their only source of attack is unarmed damage and they hit as hard (if not harder) then half-giants with agility equal to that of an average human. Unarmed damage, if a blow lands, typically does as much - If not more - damage then an actual club. A light hit to the body, by a normal PC, does roughly 50-60 stun damage. Getting solidly hit is a guaranteed knock out which, in a life or death situation, is as good as a 1-hit kill shot.

First off, Unit NPC's have been around longer then I have - And I want to know what their value is, to the game world. Why were they implemented and why do they still exist? And if they have no actual benefit to the game, other then a quick PC/NPC killer, then why keep them around?

[Drayab]

This was a long time ago, but the first time I remember seeing a unit-type NPC I think it was Tuluk being invaded by Allanak, and I was stupidly standing in the middle of the road when two or three of them came along and rolled over me like tanks Tiananmen Square style.

I always figured these kind of units were invented for that sort of thing. That is, to simulate the size and power of an army without actually having a thousand NPCs banging on the gate.

With the player driven plots philosophy adopted these days, I would think those unit-type NPCs would go the way of the dodo.

[Dahomey]

The unit npc's are from long ago, but I've witnessed them still used under certain situations.

The ones you come across that are naked and unarmed were probably loaded wrong, is my best guess. You have the best chances of seeing them during large-scale battles, and those units are indeed armed and armored.

Next time you see one, look at them. It'll detail how many are in the unit, and what kind of battle-readiness they are. Depending on which kind of unit, they actually measure up pretty well against PCs of similar number/experience, and are meant for that, not for PCs to solo against.

[Twilight]

I am pretty sure during the Copper War or thereabouts, there was discussion about making units be for, when controlled by a PC, for attacking other units, to help determine the tide of battle.  PCs could attack them, to help decide the battle, but they couldn't engage against a PC (via being ordered).  I can't remember if this was just talk, or something implemented.  Thought it was implemented?

But that doesn't address NPC units that are around for peacekeeping I think.  But those are limited these days.

[Marshmellow]

Units were give orders to kill single PCs so there was code instituted to prevent units from fighting non-units in some way shape or form, as I recall.  Am I remembering incorrectly?

[Gunnerblaster]

Units were give orders to kill single PCs so there was code instituted to prevent units from fighting non-units in some way shape or form, as I recall.  Am I remembering incorrectly?

I've seen them attack PC's without instruction, as soon as the PC was codedly 'wanted'.

[Marshmellow]

Perhaps the fix was that they can not be ordered by a PC to attack a non-unit?

[Gunnerblaster]

Personally, unless there are "war times" going on, I don't think Unit NPC's should be around. It wouldn't be hard for staff to pop up a few if they were really needed that badly.

At this moment in time, their use is a fast, one-hit KO for criminals.

[X-D]

They cannot target single PCs, they can still assist anybody, even verses single PCs.

[Sephiroto]

Personally, unless there are "war times" going on, I don't think Unit NPC's should be around. It wouldn't be hard for staff to pop up a few if they were really needed that badly.

At this moment in time, their use is a fast, one-hit KO for criminals.

I agree with this sentiment.  Altercations of that scale are almost always restricted to RPT events and I seen no reason why units should be used to engage run-of-the mill NPC's including mekillots and bahamets.  I can't think of a single reason why those who find themselves in command of units NPCs should use them except for times of war or great need on the level of an RPT/HRPT.  Removing them from the game and/or exclusing them from functioning as soldiers with the 'wanted code' should do the trick.

[Fathi]

I can't think of a single reason why those who find themselves in command of units NPCs should use them except for times of war or great need on the level of an RPT/HRPT.  Removing them from the game and/or exclusing them from functioning as soldiers with the 'wanted code' should do the trick.

Just to nitpick, there are plenty of non-combat reasons. I've seen unit NPCs provide great atmosphere when used in the hands of a responsible PC leader, merely for echoes and assisting with mundane activities.

Aaaaanyway.

Would it really be better in any way to drop five or six generic "A Kuraci Soldier" NPCs in Luir's, for example? That would potentially be even worse for those who find themselves incriminated for reasons that people can figure out (but I won't post here, just in case). I'm not sure there's a better way to emphasise that Luir's is crawling with Fist soldiers than to plunk a few units down. They may hit hard, but I am not sure a whole gaggle of single-fighter NPCs would be any better in that regard due to certain code advantages/disadvantages.

I'm not particularly enamoured of unit NPCs and I don't really care if they stay or go, but I do think they add a certain atmosphere to certain places. For example, when the unit NPCs were dropped at the mouth of Hathor's Way after some 'Rinth stuff went down in '07ish, that was a pretty 'wow' moment for me. Seeing several units of half-giants with menacing ldescs versus some templar just dropping a dozen normal half-giant soldiers there was a big difference. It also strikes me as a way to show that places like Luir's don't operate like the cities do--they don't have individual guards on patrol, they have a whole stiff-backed regiment of dudes at the gates ready to stare down anything... and unfortunately, 'anything' often includes petty thieves.

[Dakota]

Funny this topic came up.. was thinking about how to possibly "deal" with a unit NPC..

anyway, they're TONS of Unit NPCs around. IMO its fine bc it represents a huge stack of NPCs and is just efficient. Granted... most unit NPCs I see I can't tell how many of them they are.

Was actually curious to what makes up a "unit" and a "band" etc...

No matter. I don't think its a real issue though maybe the AMOUNT of Units could be pulled back... (Tuluk has hoards of them -all- over the place)

[Cutthroat]

Funny this topic came up.. was thinking about how to possibly "deal" with a unit NPC..

anyway, they're TONS of Unit NPCs around. IMO its fine bc it represents a huge stack of NPCs and is just efficient. Granted... most unit NPCs I see I can't tell how many of them they are.

Was actually curious to what makes up a "unit" and a "band" etc...

No matter. I don't think its a real issue though maybe the AMOUNT of Units could be pulled back... (Tuluk has hoards of them -all- over the place)

Some unit NPCs I can think of have their numbers right in the description when you look at them. Some probably don't, but I imagine typoing vague units wouldn't be a bad idea.

I think unit NPCs should only automatically engage in combat with other unit NPCs. For single PCs, they could spawn a single NPC at the expense of some of the unit NPC's health. Then make unit NPCs unable to regenerate HP automatically. You would have the unit's HP representing the members of the unit that are alive.

However the game might benefit more from looking at whether unit NPCs should trigger off of the wanted code, or whether these present units should just be virtual instead, like they are in most places.

[Anaiah]

This was already pushing the limits of decency with the IC info boundaries in tandem with the string of other topics.

It's been locked, since someone saw fit to jump that line, headfirst.