Weapon skills, types, and combat (derail)

[a strange shadow]

I enjoy the simplicity of the code. With it, we are able to make things far greater than anything hard coded.

This. K.I.S.S.

[Sokotra]

True, however... I wouldn't mind seeing how easy the hits or misses are, etc.  Like something that might give you an idea of what kind of roll you got compared to the opponents saving throw or whatever.

Like if your roll for hitting is like a 1d20 and your opponent's defense requires that you get a 16 or better for a successful attack.  You roll a 15...

The burly, bald-headed man barely misses the tall, muscular human.

If you roll a 16:

The burly, bald-headed man barely manages to slash the tall, muscular human.

I don't know how the combat system works, exactly, but I think you get the gist.  So if I keep getting a lot of "barely misses" then I know that I'm just a little shy of being able to match my opponents skills.  If my opponent is constantly "easily dodging" my attacks, then I know that he is far above my skill level.  Of course, then it would also be cool if you could "go easy" on someone if you wanted... sort of like a "mercy on" command, except it would just sort of "dumb down" your combat skills a little so you could feign being a poor fighter if you needed to.  Deception anyone?

[Wedna]

I think it's fine.

[Sokotra]

Everything is fine.

[X-D]

Everything is fine.


It took me this long to figure out what the OP meant. I think the Faucet in his post kept throwing me.

I do think it is a good idea in that it makes sense that you should be able to just watch somebody fight and see skill compared to your own.

The problem is, well, it looks like a coding nightmare and a possible resource hog.


I don't know why the OP was so long and why there is a faucet in it though.

[Sokotra]

Exactly... not really bad ideas at all.  Tweak them if you like, but the main concepts seem to make sense.  Perhaps not necessary...   Given time, though, I would love to see this type of realism added to the combat code.

[Is Friday]

I would really like for some variation of this idea to be implemented, so long as it does not significantly slow down the game. It would definitely allow for a better environment to be set in training/combat environments.

[Riev]

Obligatory plug for the ability to set your combat skills by a percentage, a la "holdback 20" to fight at 20% of your normal skills.

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

Obligatory plug for the ability to set your combat skills by a percentage, a la "holdback 20" to fight at 20% of your normal skills.

God, yes.

[Sephiroto]

I guess this is a derail of a derail, but I don't see why any character should be limited to learning only a certain type of weapon skill based on their class.  You don't need to be a rocket scientist to figure out which end of a stick to hit or poke something with.  Why shouldn't assassins be able to figure out how to use an axe, or a merchant to use a spear?  Coupled with variable rates to learn off/def and different starting values, I don't really understand why basic melee abilities aren't available to all classes in a SURVIVAL oriented game.  I expect to hear the "basic offense and defense accounts for this" plug, but I really don't think it does.

Here's the criteria for my fantasy weapon skills system I'd love to see in 1.Arm.

• All classes, even merchant, have access to all weapon skills, but learn them at different rates based on the primary focus of the guild (Warriors/Rangers/Assassins learn quicker than burglars or merchants)
• Depending on the class's martial capabilities, they get a certain total number of skill percent points that can be learned total torward any combination of weapon skills.
• When a less combat-oriented character reaches the pre-determined limit of learnable weapon skills they can not learn more into any single class unless they 'lose proficiency' from other previously learned classes.
• When a character runs out of skill points to learn then their combat ability with weapons plateaus.
• Different combat classes have slightly higher maximums for particular skills depending on the nature of the guild, racial, and cultural predispositions.
• Classes who typically branch other weapon skills will learn the more advanced form at a quicker rate once they master a certain proficiency of the basic weapon skill.

[Synthesis]

I don't see what the point of limiting a class to a certain number of combined percentage points between weapon skills.

It's not like you can use four weapons at once.  If you limited it by combined percentage points, the low-limit classes would just specialize in one weapon pretty much like they do already, which would entirely defeat the purpose of making the change in the first place.

[Sephiroto]

I don't see what the point of limiting a class to a certain number of combined percentage points between weapon skills.

It's not like you can use four weapons at once.  If you limited it by combined percentage points, the low-limit classes would just specialize in one weapon pretty much like they do already, which would entirely defeat the purpose of making the change in the first place.

• Namely, specialization, the ability to change specialization, and the ability for classes which currently have no/limited weapon skills to get coded, if limited potential for proficiency.
• Assassins aren't limited to the two weapon skills they have to rely on now, enabling them to blend in.
• Merchants can use a hammer, or an axe, or a spear to try to defend themselves.  They can take lessons and actually improve in a way they can see it.  Maybe they can't beat trained fighters, but they can beat back n00bs and weak harassers
• Mages can [IC] and use their melee skill to get better at killing and hunting with [IC].  They are even able to change [IC] because they can learn to use any weapon they want.
• Many karma classes can blend in better with expanded ability to reach limited combat proficiency.

Those are some pretty positive points, I reckon.

[Synthesis]

That's not really what I was getting at, but I'm too tired to articulate it properly.

[Rotten]

That's not really what I was getting at, but I'm too tired to articulate it properly.

What he's referring to is that a certain proficiency in a weapon skill has a certain degree of penetration to a certain degree of defense.  If the weapon skill is below the necessary threshold, then it is essentially useless.  Splitting up your combat skill between different weapon skills is essentially stupid.  Anyone with a mind toward using the percentages effectively will dump them all into one skill.

It's easier in terms of balance just to provide a strict cap to all weapon skills rather than have folks of varying skill levels running about.

[wizturbo]

Obligatory plug for the ability to set your combat skills by a percentage, a la "holdback 20" to fight at 20% of your normal skills.

This would be cool for a variety of reasons for offensive skills, but I don't view defenses as being a discretionary thing.  I don't think Zalanthians would willingly let someone get a free shot on them by lowering their defenses, even in a sparring situation.

[Riev]

Obligatory plug for the ability to set your combat skills by a percentage, a la "holdback 20" to fight at 20% of your normal skills.

This would be cool for a variety of reasons for offensive skills, but I don't view defenses as being a discretionary thing.  I don't think Zalanthians would willingly let someone get a free shot on them by lowering their defenses, even in a sparring situation.

I'm not suggesting that you literally stand there, and tell someone to swing a bone sword at your face as hard as they can, and you'll just take it. I'm talking about only trying half-heartedly, and if they -do- hit you, ramp it up a notch. Granted, you would have to limit or negate skill gains when at less than 100% otherwise twink-mode would be engaged.

[Potaje]

Obligatory plug for the ability to set your combat skills by a percentage, a la "holdback 20" to fight at 20% of your normal skills.

This would be cool for a variety of reasons for offensive skills, but I don't view defenses as being a discretionary thing.  I don't think Zalanthians would willingly let someone get a free shot on them by lowering their defenses, even in a sparring situation.

Nosave combat is your friend here, you can let a weaker opponent be the aggressor with out having to worry about breaking combat once engaged, as you will only act defensively, then you can engage them, strike a few times and retreat back into a defensive mode. This is in effect a free shot at you, and yes z-landers what are strong and highly skilled will let some one take those shots, because most likely they will still miss, or hit with little effect or so on. You don't stop defending only attacking.

I for one do not think % need be put in place for the above reason. I think players should just learn how the code can be worked to achieve the same effects. 

[hyzhenhok]

Obligatory plug for the ability to set your combat skills by a percentage, a la "holdback 20" to fight at 20% of your normal skills.

God, yes.

The evil, purple headed villain says, in space-accented sirihish, "Up till now I was only fighting with 1% of my total power. I will now increase to 20% of my total power."

[Gunnerblaster]

Obligatory plug for the ability to set your combat skills by a percentage, a la "holdback 20" to fight at 20% of your normal skills.

God, yes.

The evil, purple headed villain says, in space-accented sirihish, "Up till now I was only fighting with 1% of my total power. I will now increase to 20% of my total power."

Oh God. That would make for some EPIC villains.

Fight at a normal 25%-50% then, when dying...

Code Select Expand

A fiery passion blazing within his eyes, the half-dead heroic icon says, in heroic-accented sirihish,
   "No... You... SHALL... NOT... PASS!!!"

nosave combat 100

You are now fighting at 100% ability.

[Clavis]

I don't think Goku would make it in Armeggedon....a mek would eat him before he powered up.

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

Obligatory plug for the ability to set your combat skills by a percentage, a la "holdback 20" to fight at 20% of your normal skills.

This would be cool for a variety of reasons for offensive skills, but I don't view defenses as being a discretionary thing.  I don't think Zalanthians would willingly let someone get a free shot on them by lowering their defenses, even in a sparring situation.

Nosave combat is your friend here, you can let a weaker opponent be the aggressor with out having to worry about breaking combat once engaged, as you will only act defensively, then you can engage them, strike a few times and retreat back into a defensive mode. This is in effect a free shot at you, and yes z-landers what are strong and highly skilled will let some one take those shots, because most likely they will still miss, or hit with little effect or so on. You don't stop defending only attacking.

I for one do not think % need be put in place for the above reason. I think players should just learn how the code can be worked to achieve the same effects. 

The idea was simply to be able to choose what percent of any skill you want to use based on your needs at the time. I could be wounded and at 10% HP, and ramp hide down to 80%, and sneak to 15%, to reflect what I think my injuries are doing to me.

The idea never was all about combat.

[Qzzrbl]

Obligatory plug for the ability to set your combat skills by a percentage, a la "holdback 20" to fight at 20% of your normal skills.

This would be cool for a variety of reasons for offensive skills, but I don't view defenses as being a discretionary thing.  I don't think Zalanthians would willingly let someone get a free shot on them by lowering their defenses, even in a sparring situation.

Nosave combat is your friend here, you can let a weaker opponent be the aggressor with out having to worry about breaking combat once engaged, as you will only act defensively, then you can engage them, strike a few times and retreat back into a defensive mode. This is in effect a free shot at you, and yes z-landers what are strong and highly skilled will let some one take those shots, because most likely they will still miss, or hit with little effect or so on. You don't stop defending only attacking.

I for one do not think % need be put in place for the above reason. I think players should just learn how the code can be worked to achieve the same effects. 

The idea was simply to be able to choose what percent of any skill you want to use based on your needs at the time. I could be wounded and at 10% HP, and ramp hide down to 80%, and sneak to 15%, to reflect what I think my injuries are doing to me.

The idea never was all about combat.

Meh, I honestly wouldn't be against it if the game did this automatically.