Lets make power emoting possible

[Kryos]

As a guess, I'd say the racial range of the applicable stat for solo checks, and a modifier plus standard die for contests.

Edit:  Though it'd be great if you could roll say, agility v easy/normal/hard as a flat range for all races.  HGs might make an easy now and again, and it'd be hard for quicker races to fail on normals.  Reverse is true for str, and so on.

[Qzzrbl]

I still don't think I'm down for that either, Q.  Someone that has all exceptional stats but a poor strength against someone with an exceptional strength but the rest are all poor... in a contest between the two, the first would likely always win, even at arm-wrestling, something that arguably takes nothing but strength.

It's certainly arguable....

Endurance could be taken into account, it's quite possible to just barely "hold on" until your opponent wears himself out.

Agility could come into play, if for nothing else, as reaction time when someone says "go!" could be a factor.

Wisdom is important too.... Because I don't care what you say-- you could juggle trucks for all I care, if you don't -know- how to armwrestle, you're not going to beat someone who's done it for years.

There are very few things that wouldn't take all stats into account.

[Sam]

I am okay with people poweremoting on me.

So what if they grab my shoulder?

As long as the emote doesn't do something the code should, I am all for it.

[Lithium]

I don't want to see dice rolls for just any action. The outcome of most physical interactions is already covered by the code, but I trust the playerbase enough to fill in whatever else slips through the cracks. Poweremoting just isn't cool, coded or not, imho.

[Qzzrbl]

I don't want to see dice rolls for just any action. The outcome of most physical interactions is already covered by the code, but I trust the playerbase enough to fill in whatever else slips through the cracks. Poweremoting just isn't cool, coded or not, imho.

I see what you mean, but there are alot of things that simply aren't covered by the code.

Like in Marshmellow's example, armwrestling.

Simple things like trying to kick someone's chair out from under them before they sit down, reaching out to slap someone after a lewd comment, brawling that doesn't totally suck balls, etc., etc., etc.

I don't really trust the playerbase, because I've seen "emote <insert action that totally dodges whatever you're doing to me because I'm faster, even though my agility is poor and yours is absolutely incredible, hahaha, eat it.>" entirely too many times to even bother with "poweremotes", no matter how much they could potentially add to a scene.

I personally believe some system to code these sorts of things in would add a great deal of depth to the game.

::Edited to add::

And I know the system was clunky on SoI, but on another mud that used their engine, it was pretty sweet.... Even with it's visible OOC rolls that echoed to everyone in the room.

I remember boxing with someone in said game.... The other person emoted lunging forward at me, and then made the roll against agility-- critical failure.

So I rolled against his agility with a critical success, which allowed me to emote stepping back, grabbing his head, and driving a knee into his face.

It allowed me, the player, to emote things like that without questioning, "Would my character really be able to do this?"

Again, I know their system was clunky at best, but if Armageddon's staff ever took an interest in something like this, I know they'd do it right.

'Cause that's just the kind of shit they do.  

[boog]

Why can't we all just play and get along and let our characters lose some and win some? :/

I mean, the idea of the thread is ... good, in part... But everyone can already do these sorts of things. I consider it a fault on both players' ends if they try to power emote offense or defense or -anything- ---

Okay. I'm not making any sense. I'm just trying to say that we should, as players, be courteous to one another and realize that our leet ninja assassin replica IG is not always going to be able to cleanly slice someone's kidneys from their backs, mmkay? This goes for both ends - your character who is getting stabbed at isn't always going to be able to dodge the damn dagger, either. Buck up and handle it and quit giving reasons for people to make threads like these.

[Qzzrbl]

Why can't we all just play and get along and let our characters lose some and win some? :/

I mean, the idea of the thread is ... good, in part... But everyone can already do these sorts of things. I consider it a fault on both players' ends if they try to power emote offense or defense or -anything- ---

Okay. I'm not making any sense. I'm just trying to say that we should, as players, be courteous to one another and realize that our leet ninja assassin replica IG is not always going to be able to cleanly slice someone's kidneys from their backs, mmkay? This goes for both ends - your character who is getting stabbed at isn't always going to be able to dodge the damn dagger, either. Buck up and handle it and quit giving reasons for people to make threads like these.

You know as well as I do that there will -always- be 1337 Ninja McEvasion types around, until code steps in.

[boog]

Why can't we all just play and get along and let our characters lose some and win some? :/

I mean, the idea of the thread is ... good, in part... But everyone can already do these sorts of things. I consider it a fault on both players' ends if they try to power emote offense or defense or -anything- ---

Okay. I'm not making any sense. I'm just trying to say that we should, as players, be courteous to one another and realize that our leet ninja assassin replica IG is not always going to be able to cleanly slice someone's kidneys from their backs, mmkay? This goes for both ends - your character who is getting stabbed at isn't always going to be able to dodge the damn dagger, either. Buck up and handle it and quit giving reasons for people to make threads like these.

You know as well as I do that there will -always- be 1337 Ninja McEvasion types around, until code steps in.

But wouldn't this be a good time to use the request tool? I haven't yet experienced the twinkiest of twinks, I'm sure, but if I ever come across epic badass Chuck Norris-Jack Bauer-Bruce Lee-never-fail types, I'll say something about it.

You're portraying, for the most part, humans here, people! Things with flaws. I know it sucks to have to play a game with realism in it, but if you already have to eat and drink to not die in game, you might also want to fail. Just a couple times. At something.

[Qzzrbl]

If the request tool had an option to critique other people's roleplay, then sure... But if I remember correctly, the player complaint option is only for reporting abuse of code or somesuch. I doubt complaints of, "This asshole keeps dodging my power emotes!" would get much audience staff-side.

[perfecto]

I don't want to see dice rolls for just any action. The outcome of most physical interactions is already covered by the code, but I trust the playerbase enough to fill in whatever else slips through the cracks. Poweremoting just isn't cool, coded or not, imho.

I agree fullly... play the game.. don't let the game play you.

[Qzzrbl]

It would help if it wasn't thought of as "power emoting".... As the phrase itself has a number of negative connotations.

But the thing is, we have a large number of hard-coded commands, kill, skin, bash, etc., etc., etc.

Which if enacted upon an object or player, the target has no choice but to accept the results, as it's based off stats and skills.

But then we have emoting-- which is entirely up in the air, especially when it comes to emoting actions upon other players.

Neither player knows the other player's stats and skills, or any of that, so it all falls on "trusting the other player".

Though "trusting the other player" is silly in and of itself, because you can't tell what the other PC's actual chances of evading or getting hit are, so what exactly are you trusting the other player to do?

For example, if someone emoted sticking a foot out and trying to trip my PC.

I've got a choice to make!

Will my character take the fall?

Or will I hop over it like the goddamn ninja badass I am?

I, the player, don't know! And as it stands, there's no way for me to know.

And that's why I'd like some sort of system such as this to be added.

So I can be absolutely sure that the outcome is as it should be.

[Marauder Moe]

It's still of my opinion that code arbitration should be added in a situation by situation basis, not with a single, all-encompassing stat-glob roll command.

However... I'm willing to let ideas evolve some.


So... what if a stat contest required permission from your opponent?

Code Select Expand

>emote tries to yank %amos chair away.

>contest amos

You have beaten the tall, muscular man!
Amos sees:

Code Select Expand

>
The stocky, rugged man tries to yank your chair away.

The stocky, rugged man  wishes to challenge you.  Type 'accept' if you wish to meet his challenge.

>accept

You are beaten by the stocky, rugged man!

Other see:

Code Select Expand

The stocky, rugged man tries to yank the tall, muscular man's chair away.

The tall muscular man is beaten by the stocky, rugged man!


Additionally, I think you should be able to (or required to) specify which stat(s) or skill you wish to contest.

Code Select Expand

>contest amos strength

Code Select Expand

>contest amos endurance agility

Code Select Expand

>contest amos subdue

Would this work?



Additionally, I would be in favor of extending brawl code to more areas (minor streets, alleys) and adding some more brawl moves/commands (trip, slam, grapple).

I think also think arm wrestling would be cool if separately coded.  Make it a drawn-out series of strength, endurance, and offense rolls to approximate the back-and-forth suspense of real arm wrestling.

[a strange shadow]

The more we involve the code in situations like this, the more cans of worms we'll open.

I'd really rather leave it up to responsible roleplay!

[Sam]

I dont think we should be able to roll against specific attributes. Since there are so many ways to interpret things and 4 stats account for an entire humanoid. K.I.S.S. Let each player decide how they win or lose.

[Drayab]

I'm in favor of code arbitrated contests in specific situations like brawling, arm wrestling, and dance offs, but trying to come up with a generic 'contest' command that will acceptably simulate any emote-type action that players can come up with is a fool's errand because there are just too many variables to consider. This sort of thing works in table top games because you've got an intelligent GM to decide what's the best way to do it.

I wouldn't mind if the game had a feature to let me roll against my own character's stats/skills privately, though.

[MeTekillot]

Honestly, I just wanna armwrestle somebody.

[Qzzrbl]

This sort of thing works in table top games because you've got an intelligent GM to decide what's the best way to do it.

Which.... More than likely consist of a few rolls of dice against stats....

[Aaron Goulet]

This sort of thing works in table top games because you've got an intelligent GM to decide what's the best way to do it.

Which.... More than likely consist of a few rolls of dice against stats....

If it were that simple, this idea wouldn't have generated so much debate.  Who decides what stats to roll?  If someone rolls a strength hit, can someone roll an agility dodge?  How much can someone get away with in one action?  Implementing such a command will also require implementing an accompanying set of rules, or you may see stuff like:

Code Select Expand


The burly, thick-necked man rolls against your strength, and passes.

The burly, thick-necked man punches you in the face, knocking out one of your teeth!


[Qzzrbl]

This sort of thing works in table top games because you've got an intelligent GM to decide what's the best way to do it.

Which.... More than likely consist of a few rolls of dice against stats....

If it were that simple, this idea wouldn't have generated so much debate.  Who decides what stats to roll?  If someone rolls a strength hit, can someone roll an agility dodge?  How much can someone get away with in one action?  Implementing such a command will also require implementing an accompanying set of rules, or you may see stuff like:

Code Select Expand


The burly, thick-necked man rolls against your strength, and passes.

The burly, thick-necked man punches you in the face, knocking out one of your teeth!


For the exact same reason you can't do that with regular emotes, you wouldn't be able to do this with a "roll whatever" command.

Some posters in here seem to trust the playerbase at large-- but suddenly wouldn't do so if this idea were implemented.

>_>

[jriley]

If it were that simple, this idea wouldn't have generated so much debate.  Who decides what stats to roll?  If someone rolls a strength hit, can someone roll an agility dodge?  How much can someone get away with in one action?  Implementing such a command will also require implementing an accompanying set of rules, or you may see stuff like:

Code Select Expand


The burly, thick-necked man rolls against your strength, and passes.

The burly, thick-necked man punches you in the face, knocking out one of your teeth!


Maybe, but I still think that you're overcomplicating this.  I don't understand why a group of posters can't seem to grasp that code-assisted power-emoting is non-binding, the same way that non-code-assisted power-emoting is non-binding.

If some noob rolls up on you and emotes:

emote punches you in the face so hard that you fly backwards and crash through the wall into the next room!

you're completely free to roll with the result if you want, but also completely free to:

emote moves out of the way of the crazy attack at the last second!!

At least that's what I do when someone tries to power emote against me.  Or I just roll with it because I'm an adult and we're all just playing a game.  Other options include ignoring them, logging off, walking away or if they're really really being a tard, then reporting them to the staff.  I don't understand why you think that adding a slight layer of coded support will break anything.

With the exception that some players seem to have a nagging suspicion that people will use this to sniff out your stats...but then that's more or less realistic.  For example, if I walk up to you suddenly and grab your arm, your response is going to give me some indication of how strong you are.  Also, if I throw a knife at your leg, your response is going to give me some indication of how quick you are.

And if someone does something that's really unrealistic, then it's just good old fashioned code abuse and we're supposed to trust the staff to deal with that kind of stuff. 


Heh.

[Marauder Moe]

I don't understand why a group of posters can't seem to grasp that code-assisted power-emoting is non-binding, the same way that non-code-assisted power-emoting is non-binding.

Making it binding seems to be the entire point of this thread.  Otherwise... what's the point?

[jriley]

Making it binding seems to be the entire point of this thread.  Otherwise... what's the point?

Good question, and I can certainly understand the paranoia about forcing players to accept binding power emotes.  In fact, I'd feel the same way.

But that's not what the idea is about at all, otherwise it would have been titled "Hey let's screw up the game by making power-emoting binding."

What it is about is making power-emoting less arbitrary.  Meaning that if you want to shoot an arrow through an apple on my character's head, there will be at least some basis for you emoting this out.  Right now we're just stuck relying on our imaginations, which causes conflict because different people imagine stuff differently.  Adding a splash of code would make the idea a bit less arbitrary.  Although people would still disagree with power emotes, and arguments would still take place. 

[Drayab]

If the results are non binding, then how can we even say that power emoting is possible? The loser can choose to ignore the roll, and we're right back where we started, except now we have the results of dice rolling on our screen.

[Marauder Moe]

I dunno, jriley.  Maybe that's your idea of the idea (and honestly I'm in agreement with you for the most part that a broad enabling of power emotes is bad), but I don't think that's what lordcooper and Qzzrbrlblrbzzlrb have in mind, judging from their posts.

Also, for clarity sake, shooting an apple off someone's head is not a power emote.  A power emote is forcing actions and/or (negative) consequences on another character.

[Sam]

Well, there seems to be a lot of confussion as to what power emoting is.

Perhaps we could make a pretty good list of examples of both good and bad power emoting? Let us all give an example of what we think is good power emoting and bad power emoting.

Good:
emote walks up to ~person and pats !person on the back. (Good because it doesn't assume anything about the other character.)

Bad:
emote walks up and punches %person front teeth out. (Bad because it alters the other PC without any input from that other player.)