Complaint trend #650 -- Allanak (or Tuluk) sucks

[Cutthroat]

I've always figured Allanak would have some patrons of fine quality stone work.

It would be cool to see a few more pieces appear around the city, like that snarling face that is across from one of the entrances to the bazaar. Whoever wrote that had a fit of enviable creativity. Harsh stonework to go with a harsh city environment.

But I suppose there's little incentive to create when an active volcano is looming over the outer wall.

Tuluk.. not so much.

You know that's very possible to make happen as a PC (and likely has been possible for years), right? The volcano just makes the goal slightly more of a challenge to reach. Good goals are challenging.

[Qzzrbl]

I've always figured Allanak would have some patrons of fine quality stone work.

It would be cool to see a few more pieces appear around the city, like that snarling face that is across from one of the entrances to the bazaar. Whoever wrote that had a fit of enviable creativity. Harsh stonework to go with a harsh city environment.

But I suppose there's little incentive to create when an active volcano is looming over the outer wall.

Tuluk.. not so much.

You know that's very possible to make happen as a PC (and likely has been possible for years), right? The volcano just makes the goal slightly more of a challenge to reach. Good goals are challenging.

Carve the volcano into a giant statue of Tektolnes, complete with lava flowing and spewing out the mouth-- PUT THAT HUNK OF STEEL AT THE GATES TO SHAAAAME!

[Cutthroat]

I don't think Tuluk sucks. However, I don't appreciate it, so I don't play there.

I love Allanak - with all of my heart.

That said, both of the cities sort of suck, for one reason alone. There is too much player dilution. We need one city, period. I'd rather it be Allanak, but it's sort of irrelevant to the problem. One might argue against such a statement, and mention how different the two places are and how they have their place and so on, and you're right. But the fact remains.

One city, with the same number of players as currently play in both cities, would never sleep.

Or just less spots to hang at.

I wouldn't reduce the number of spots to hang at. If a city is to be fully fleshed out, there needs to be numerous choices. But if the current population of both cities were condensed into one city, the dynamics of things would change completely. Suddenly, noble players would never be bored (well, relative to now, of course), and the bars would always seem full. All of the bars.

Add inter-House conflict that was allowed to escalate into mini wars, provided nobody got caught, and not only would the conflict be in the game, and deep too, but the social players, who're the ones who tend to play city-based characters, would be elated, once they got over the fact that their favorite city might have been toasted or washed away.

For the concept of one major city, I would even play in Tuluk, and I have not done that in ... six or seven years.

I much prefer recruiting new players to fill out the cities over eliminating a city (although that idea certainly has merit), and here's why.

1) The game isn't just Tuluk and Allanak. If you take one out, the remaining city won't absorb 100% of the destroyed city's usual players. The tribes, Luir's, Red Storm, etc. will take their share of players and the rest will go into the remaining city. I'm no Data Queen, but I would imagine that killing one city will encourage staff to raise the caps on various tribes' players, and that the benefit the remaining city will see will be limited.
2) You can't win when you're the one picking a city that survives. Staff pick City X to go, and I guarantee you there will be bitching and moaning about staff's decision from some person or other on the GDB. (This point actually makes a good case for a PC-led effort to destroy a city. Good luck with that.)

I think if the playerbase's spread over the cities is a problem it's solved better by recruiting new players to add to the playerbase rather than moving them around. It seems like actually fixing the problem, rather than putting duct tape over it. I think that's a good effort to focus our collective brain-power into, perhaps in another thread on the GDB sometime.

[Qzzrbl]

Blow up Red Storm.

Leave spice deposits.

[lordcooper]

Wow, this thread has gone off topic.  Blow up a city state != Lack of staff support regarding arty farty stuff.

Now, to compound the issue, app a dwarf.  Focus = Tunnel lava from volcano to Allanak.

[brytta.leofa]

If Allanak occupied Tuluk again and then got destroyed, we could have have northern and southern culture together in one madd roilin' city.

I'm only just saying.

[Booya]

I'd like to complain about different timezones.

It hasn't helped.

[lordcooper]

I'd like to complain about different timezones.

It hasn't helped.

Hell yeah, peak time is now being moved to 5 - 12 GMT.

DEAL WITH IT

[Marshmellow]

...a bunch of stuff...

I disagree.  I think the OP has as much right o express his opinions as anyone else.

Whoever said noone was entitled to an opinion?  I was simply expressing my opinion about how the OP was mistaken in some of the assumptions that lead to the opinion held, just as everyone else has been doing when they disagreed with someone.  It's all quite civil and in the interest of improving the game, either directly or by helping fellow players to understand something in a different way and perhaps a better one.

This whole thread came about because someone complained that Tuluk gets all the love because of a bunch of things that others think aren't good examples of 'Nak getting ignored/snubbed/shit on.

[number13]

One city, with the same number of players as currently play in both cities, would never sleep.

You know what would be even better than one city?

TWICE THE FUCKING PLAYERS.

You know how you get twice the fucking players?  Half the fucking cities.

More possibly of interaction right out of the gate, less chance of choosing the 'wrong' (currently unpopular) city = more retention of first time players.   And it also means more concentrated staff attention, more possibly of encountering PC plots, which could translate to more retention of veteran players.

[chrisdcoulombe]

Starts in Tuluk and walks to Nak

[Flawed]

Some of us would rather quit Arm then be stuck hugging trees in Tuluk.

Some just can't face sipping tea in Allanak.

More choices ftw!

[Marshmellow]

Half the cities does not get you twice the players.  It just gets twice the players in one location but half the locations... 1/2 * 2 = 1.

[jstorrie]

Wow, this thread has gone off topic.  Blow up a city state != Lack of staff support regarding arty farty stuff.

Now, to compound the issue, app a dwarf.  Focus = Tunnel lava from volcano to Allanak.

OMG ARMAGEDDON DWARF FORTRESS

[Ampere]

Half the cities does not get you twice the players.  It just gets twice the players in one location but half the locations... 1/2 * 2 = 1.

Thank you.

[brytta.leofa]

Half the cities does not get you twice the players.  It just gets twice the players in one location but half the locations... 1/2 * 2 = 1.

That's not what he's saying.  He's saying that we would retain more new players if the existing playerbase were more concentrated.

[Gimfalisette]

Half the cities does not get you twice the players.  It just gets twice the players in one location but half the locations... 1/2 * 2 = 1.

That's not what he's saying.  He's saying that we would retain more new players if the existing playerbase were more concentrated.

I refute all speculation which is not based on actual data, research, or other empirical evidence. He believes we would, but that doesn't make it true. I believe that having only one city, and thus significantly limiting player choice, would actually lead to a reduction in the playerbase. So there.

[Marshmellow]

Interpreting data!  Yay!

[RogueGunslinger]

What we need is a good balance. I think we're close to that right now, but there's still a problem where one place is bumpin' and the other is just okay, in terms of playerbase.


You want my opinion? Get rid of Red Storm, and only allow 1 human, and elf,  tribe to be open at a time.

[number13]

I refute all speculation which is not based on actual data, research, or other empirical evidence. He believes we would, but that doesn't make it true. I believe that having only one city, and thus significantly limiting player choice, would actually lead to a reduction in the playerbase. So there.

By that logic, dredging up Stienal and reopening all the clans would increase the playerbase.  I think we can be pretty sure that's just not true.

Anecdotally, Atonement RPI's alpha had about half of Armageddon's player base, but because the environment was so drastically constrained it always seemed more full.  It's off-peak about about the same size as Armageddon's.  You could log in at any hour and there's be interaction.  However, the lack of Stuff To Do outside of RPTs was a problem.  There wasn't much to explore.

There's a sweet spot between Armageddon and Atonement's Alpha.  Actually, I think Atonement's Beta (which is set to occur in a city with a surrounding wilderness) might hit that sweet spot. Personally I'd prefer to waste time in Arm's harsh low-fantasy desert than Atonement's sort of goofy sci-fi setting, but having experienced an RPI where I didn't have to roam around a hundred rooms looking for that one other PC who was logged in my area was so nice -- it took me months of no Atonement before I could stomach coming back.

[boog]

There was plenty to explore in Atonement. Maybe you just weren't looking hard enough? :/

[Nyr]

Looks like we're done here.