Bleeding? But it was a club to the thigh!

[Scarecrow]

Read:  I fucking way hard agree with this.

Shouldn't that be "And my Axe!".
To be a big picayune, anyways.

[slipshod]

This movie scene always reminded me of how rough a match with sparring swords could be.  Just imagine all that blowing rain is sand.

[hyzhenhok]

This movie scene always reminded me of how rough a match with sparring swords could be.  Just imagine all that blowing rain is sand.

Yes, how rough a match with sparring swords can be when one person is intentionally trying to injure the other.

[X-D]

In sparring the intent of all my PCs has been to beat the other person senseless. So yes, it is a good scene I think.

[Qzzrbl]

In sparring the intent of all my PCs has been to beat the other person senseless.

Your PCs, sure....

But not mine.

[X-D]

Even in real life that is often the difference between winning and losing.  You could be a 666the degree black belt in 37 martial arts, but if I know that you only compete in armored 3 point tourneys and never take real hits, I'll take you on.

Besides, I see pretty much any Zalanthan combat PC as having the mindset of "What does not kill you only makes you stronger."

Yes, how rough a match with sparring swords can be when one person is intentionally trying to injure the other.

You can only learn so much (very little) from somebody only pretending to want to hurt you.

[hyzhenhok]

Even in real life that is often the difference between winning and losing.  You could be a 666the degree black belt in 37 martial arts, but if I know that you only compete in armored 3 point tourneys and never take real hits, I'll take you on.

Besides, I see pretty much any Zalanthan combat PC as having the mindset of "What does not kill you only makes you stronger."

Yes, how rough a match with sparring swords can be when one person is intentionally trying to injure the other.

You can only learn so much (very little) from somebody only pretending to want to hurt you.

I see. Every Zalanthan combat PC has the same mindset. Good thing we've decided that there's no such thing as variety, as that would be contrary to our personal view of things. How convenient it is that every combat Zalanthan PC's mindset also coincides with your view of things.

Good luck with any combat PC that intentionally injures his sparring partners because apparently ideas of complex, modern things like "practice" and "learning" are absent in the harsh world of Zalanthas. Realistically, you'll end up with no sparring partners as your superiors have you sit out fights and your clanmates avoid sparring with you. Your mindset only makes sense in a world where a little rest or sleep in the shade can make any injury better, which while might be true of Armageddon is absolutely not what you should base your roleplay on.

I'm not saying Zalanthan sparring would have all of the safety precautions you see in modern sparring and martial arts, but that's a world away from every single Zalanthan PC deciding there's no such thing as sparring, and them all being out to completely beat the shit out of everyone else like they have a vendetta or something (as there was in the video linked above...). I'd say beating the shit out of a sparring partner for no reason other than "Zalanthas is harsh" is the worse roleplay. Save it for when you actually have a reason.

[X-D]

You are female aren't you?

I have to assume so because you have no idea what it is like to train for or be in combat.

Ever watch a UFC match? These guys get into the ring with the intention of killing the other person, Not simply hurting them, not simply winning, the intent is to kill. Anything less is to lose, if you get into a fight, ANY fight with the intent to do anything other then kill then you will lose if the other person has that intent.

When training to fight, the only difference between that and the real thing is the lack of a ref. When I get into the ring to spar, I still intend to kill my sparring partner, but since there is no ref I also keep in mind that I have to tell him when I am done and keep an eye on him as well. And I have to pay attention to the other rules. But inside the limits of the rules, I'm out to kill.

And why, because if you practice by pulling your punches or limiting your mindset, you are in fact training to pull your punches and you WILL do it when the real thing comes around.

Go to any reputable self defense class and they will tell you the exact same thing, That is why the good ones use those snazzy training dummies for the eye gouges and throat punches and elbows to the nose and groin. Because they want you to train using full force.

My comment had nothing to do with personal view other then if you have an intent to win or in the case of Arm, to survive you must take on a them or me attitude, there is no other way about it, and if you have taken on that attitude in a combat setting then your intent, at all times must be to kill. You can of course stop short of it.

No really, go out and learn these things yourself, then come back and post again. Or go talk to a pro or golden gloves boxer or a UFC fighter. You think that all the interviews before matches when they use the words Kill, destroy, hurt, break, they are just saying it for the fans? No, they intend to try. And every fighter getting into the ring, EVEN for a friendly spar knows that his opponent will try to beat him senseless that each strike will be aimed at a kill zone and with full intent to cause as much bodily harm as possible.

[Is Friday]

With that being said, you cannot go full force every single day and not get hurt.

[Sam]

Following that, there are some days when you just go through the motions.

[hyzhenhok]

You are female aren't you?

I have to assume so because you have no idea what it is like to train for or be in combat.

Wrong on both counts. Pretty telling how that's the first thing you jump to.

Ever watch a UFC match? These guys get into the ring with the intention of killing the other person, Not simply hurting them, not simply winning, the intent is to kill. Anything less is to lose, if you get into a fight, ANY fight with the intent to do anything other then kill then you will lose if the other person has that intent.

When training to fight, the only difference between that and the real thing is the lack of a ref. When I get into the ring to spar, I still intend to kill my sparring partner, but since there is no ref I also keep in mind that I have to tell him when I am done and keep an eye on him as well. And I have to pay attention to the other rules. But inside the limits of the rules, I'm out to kill.

And why, because if you practice by pulling your punches or limiting your mindset, you are in fact training to pull your punches and you WILL do it when the real thing comes around.

Go to any reputable self defense class and they will tell you the exact same thing, That is why the good ones use those snazzy training dummies for the eye gouges and throat punches and elbows to the nose and groin. Because they want you to train using full force.

My comment had nothing to do with personal view other then if you have an intent to win or in the case of Arm, to survive you must take on a them or me attitude, there is no other way about it, and if you have taken on that attitude in a combat setting then your intent, at all times must be to kill. You can of course stop short of it.

No really, go out and learn these things yourself, then come back and post again. Or go talk to a pro or golden gloves boxer or a UFC fighter. You think that all the interviews before matches when they use the words Kill, destroy, hurt, break, they are just saying it for the fans? No, they intend to try. And every fighter getting into the ring, EVEN for a friendly spar knows that his opponent will try to beat him senseless that each strike will be aimed at a kill zone and with full intent to cause as much bodily harm as possible.

I'd like to know what self-defense class has you gouging out the eyes and hitting nut shots against your sparring partners.

Get real, man. You sound more like a UFC/MMA fan boy than an actual self defense expert.

And did you even listen to yourself?

When training to fight, the only difference between that and the real thing is the lack of a ref. When I get into the ring to spar, I still intend to kill my sparring partner, but since there is no ref I also keep in mind that I have to tell him when I am done and keep an eye on him as well. And I have to pay attention to the other rules. But inside the limits of the rules, I'm out to kill.

Sounds like you're not out to kill to me.

[X-D]

Wow, at least read it before replying with junk. Here, let me help you.

Go to any reputable self defense class and they will tell you the exact same thing,That is why the good ones use those snazzy training dummies for the eye gouges and throat punches and elbows to the nose and groin. Because they want you to train using full force.

And why, because they are teaching things that can royally fuck somebody up, things that are mostly against the rules in any SPORT. And the ones that don't have dummies often have a live person wearing full padded body armor.

Also, I never once said I am a self defense expert. I am not, Self defense training is, in my opinion, stupid, it only works against somebody with no training or caught by surprise.

I am a fighter, Bare knuckles, boxing, kick boxing. That is what I do.

God, why do I bother.

Sounds like you're not out to kill to me.

Again, try maybe reading what was posted before replying...Hhhmm...maybe, can we try that?

Here, later in the post.

And every fighter getting into the ring, EVEN for a friendly spar knows that his opponent will try to beat him senseless that each strike will be aimed at a kill zone and with full intent to cause as much bodily harm as possible.

IN OTHER WORDS......Each and every strike is intent to kill, maim, injure or otherwise FUCK YOU UP. That does not mean I don't want to still have a beer with you afterwards...DUH, hence the point where I said WITHIN THE LIMITS OF THE RULES.

Oh, not female, then maybe raised in a single parent home where the parent is female or feminine?

Oh, and more on topic. I was playing racketball and the the guy playing with me got hit on the thigh by the ball hard enough to rip the skin a bit and cause bleeding....just saying, blunt force causing rips in the skin is really not rare.

That being said, I'm all for generic descripters for what kind of shape the PC/NPC is in.

[Barzalene]

I stopped reading after you're female aren't you?

[Synthesis]

X-D's been watching too many samurai movie montages.

[X-D]

I was wondering how long it would take Synth to pipe up.

And Barz, the intent was not to offend women.
Women do think differently then men, and tend to act differently, they tend to not be physically violent and so do not tend (keywords here are tend) to have much experiance in combat/fighting. Males who are raised by women tend to have lesser experiance in such matters as well.

And for the record, I do not watch such things, they annoy me far to much to be entertaining. Mostly because they give people the wrong or romantic impression as to what fighting is. Real fights are usually over in moments, no matter if there is weapons involved or simply unarmed. A person can only take so much damage on the one end and only has so much stamina on the other. Trained fighters do last for a few minutes before needing a break (Hence the rounds in all fighting sports) Untrained combatants will usually be too winded to continue in 1-2 minutes. Martial arts movies are the worst, they run around taking damage that would kill or lay a person out 150 times over the course of 15 minutes then still run 5 miles to get into another 20 minute fight where they would suffer the breaking of every bone they have 200 times over and come out sweating and with a scratch.

Also, I'm always willing to have a match, if your ever in phoenix and feeling froggy let me know. Bring your own mouth guard and groin protection and be willing to fill out the mutual combat form, I'll buy the beer for after.

I figure only Malifaxis would ever take me up on that, he has always struck me as the type to not mind getting bloody then sitting back and having some beers...could be wrong of course.

[Synthesis]

[X-D]

Damm Synth, your pretty...younger then I thought though.

[Rhyden]

Bleeding lightly to minorly injured.

Bleeding heavily to injured .

Bleeding profusely to severely injured.

Near death would remain near death.

Mortally wounded to dying.

This is a great idea, Venomz. Additionally, if this went in, you could still change your ldesc to bleeding lightly/heavily/profusely if your character was bloodied up enough.

[roughneck]

Control is more important than brutality in training.

Stitches will take you out of training for a week at best, broken bones obviously much longer.  It's hard to get better at whatever at whatever you're studying if you lack the physical ability to pursue it.  If your good at any type of combat art it's extremely easy to inflict debilitating injuries going half-force let alone full.

I'm coming from the angle of bjj and submission grappling and at least in my experience this is very much the case.  You don't learn anything by beating someone not as good as you, but by taking it easy or even giving your partner an advantage you can really smooth out and polish certain aspects of your game.

Even in the ufc most fighters don't finish the really brutal submissions given the chance because it's totally disrespectful to your opponent.  Some ignorant fighters try and do of course, but most armbars in the ufc and world-class grappling competition end in tapping or the ref stopping the fight, not a broken arm.  One severe armbar, leglock or heel-hook can have a drastic impact on that competitors body and career with the potential of never recovering fully, permanent loss in range of motion etc.

Sorry to disagree with you X-D.  I think I saw on the other thread you're from Texas, so at least your post has context .

[X-D]

At least you insult better then Synth....Texas, God, No, Detroit baby cakes. But currently living in Phoenix.

As for the rest of the post. Sure you can point out things that go with the way you wish to think on the matter....as long as you pick and choose only the components you want and make sure they are the less then lethal styles anyway. Which in your case you did. And even better, picked the ones that have no Arm counterpart.

But the part that Every single poster has ignored on this matter.

Ufc, mma, boxing, whatever, are Sports. You are not training to defend your life or end others. The only reason I even mentioned any of them is because if you are in even those sports, when it comes time to do a real match, often the winner is decided by who had the greatest will to win. You will not have the greatest will to win if you go in pulling your punches. You think any of them pull strikes in any way? No, they do not. And submission holds are just that, Holds that can damage but you simply do not push it that far...And something that has no counterpart in Arm.

In arm we are talking about training to kill or stop from being killed, It is not a sport, it is life and death. And again, I will state, and it is indeed true, hell you even pointed it out. If you train by holding back you train TO hold back, and outside of a sport that will get you dead.

And though you may not learn much by beating your opponent senseless...which is something represented in Arm, your opponent WILL, and this is also represented in Arm. You want to advance a combat PC fast, Get him beat the fuck out of. He will be better for it in the end.

[roughneck]

Detroit?  You poor bastard!

My main point was that if you seriously injure someone, they become unable to train and therefore weaker/less skilled.  Long-term injuries aren't represented in arm either (thank goodness).  But really we're talking more about philosophy and paradigms on fighting/training then we are the initial proposal now - and when it comes to philosophies on combat you find a great variety amongst even the highest echelon of combatants.  An area where it's cool to see how different PC's approach it and an opportunity to communicate and develop your own PC's attitude and perspective.

So addressing the point I should have in the beginning:

Bleeding lightly to minorly injured.

Bleeding heavily to injured .

Bleeding profusely to severely injured.

Near death would remain near death.

Mortally wounded to dying.

This is a great idea, Venomz. Additionally, if this went in, you could still change your ldesc to bleeding lightly/heavily/profusely if your character was bloodied up enough.

I'm for it!

[Qzzrbl]

You think any of them pull strikes in any way? No, they do not.

That's because they're trying to win....

Sparring isn't a competition.

[MeTekillot]

This thread is about injury messages. Not the mechanics of sparring.

[Ampere]

When I was ten, my eight year old cousin dropkicked me in the chest. I spazzed and cranked him in the head with a plastic cup. He completely freaked out when it began to bleed. Fearing an ass whooping on the parental end, and not yet feeling satisfaction in regards to my throbbing ribs, I convinced him to stick a maxipad on the wound. Everyone thought it was so damn hysterical I pretty much got off scot-free. They took pictures.

...If a ten year old terran can draw blood with a plastic cup, I'm sure a zalanthan warrior could pull off the same trick using a club.

Still, more ambiguous injury descriptors would be nice.

[Malifaxis]

X-D, you're right on that.  A bout is a bout, kill for the moment and then enjoy life when you both don't die.

However, I'm going to back MeTekillot on this... this is about INJURIES not sparring.

So could everyone please wipe the sand out of their (orifice of choice, whether male or female) and get on with the discussion about INJURIES please?