Bleeding? But it was a club to the thigh!

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

When somebody is injured, according to the percentage of health lost, a message is automatically appended to their long description, which is the one seen when you look in a room. The current messages are subjective, and I feel as though they need to be broadened and generalized, to encompass a whole range of injury and hurt, from gaping wounds to simple poisons.

Bleeding lightly to minorly injured.

Bleeding heavily to injured .

Bleeding profusely to severely injured.

Near death would remain near death.

Mortally wounded to dying.

This would be changed in the long desc, so that instead of seeing:

The grey-faced man stands here, bleeding heavily.

- you would see:

The grey-faced man stands here, injured.





Edited to add a re-message for 'mortally wounded'.

[FiveDisgruntledMonkeysWit]

Additionally, I think it'd be cool if certain forms of injury (such as poison and possible consequences of magick and certain spells) left no visible injury.

I like the idea. Experienced players, for the most part, already ignore the 'bleeding' messages, and instead wait for a cue from the PC so they can start RPing their reactions to the injury. Others prompt with questions, "Hey, fella, you ain't lookin' so good. What's wrong?" Since we all kind of ignore it anyway, I think it'd be nice to make it more indistinct, to avoid confusing newbies.

Also, to avoid this inevitable and irritating scene:

Jumping up from his seat and straight into a conclusion, the clueless guy says to you, in sirihish:
"Hey! Get out of here! You're bleeding all over the barstools!"

Voice weak and feeble, you say to the clueless guy, in sirihish:
"Please... so hungry..."

[Gunnerblaster]

+1

[Aaron Goulet]

Why not replace it with "<sdesc> is in <blank> condition."?  That seems simple enough.

[jhunter]

I agree regarding bludgeoning weapons/unarmed damage. I would like for bleeding to displayed for slashing, piercing and chopping damage  though.

[Mendel]

Lawl, I still find it amusing that sparring weapons get so bloody.

[Lizzie]

If someone is poisoned/codedly ill, it could be:

bleeding lightly = "looking weak and wan."
bleeding heavily = "appearing ill."
bleeding profusely = "appearing very ill."
near death = "near death"
mortally wounded = "dying"

[Aaron Goulet]

I don't think Arm supports the ability to show different messages depending on the type of damage, and even if it did, what happens when you're hurt from equal parts clubbing and getting diced?

It might make for a nice addition in Arm 2, if individual wounds are shown.

[Sephiroto]

I agree with OP.  I also think it might be possible to have a few different types of messages for the injuries by pulling out specific conditions in the "stat" bar, such as poison and dehydration.  I don't think it should be too hard to code different messages for those affected by poison, dehydration, or hunger since their appearance is much different than traumatic injuries.  Of course, the code could have trouble deciding which message to display if a victim was suffering from multiple afflictions and trauma, but I still think this idea might be worth looking into.

[Gimfalisette]

Lawl, I still find it amusing that sparring weapons get so bloody.

I don't really see anything that leads me to believe that Zalanthan sparring is non-brutal and non-potentially-deadly. Those of us who've played long-lived combat PCs in charge of training other combat PCs have probably all nearly killed a newb or three doing it (if we're lucky--if we're not lucky, we actually HAVE killed a newb). If you get injured in sparring, you are injured. (And I, personally, would love to see PCs not just fucking shrugging it off when they get badly hurt in sparring. Roleplay the pain, bitches!) Zalanthans chop mothafuckaz up with bone sparring swords, after all. This is not modern fencing or play-kwan-do at your daddy's dojo!

Back to the original point, I would love to see a more extensive/informative injury/wound system, but I don't think we're gonna get it for 1.ARM. I'm OK with just roleplaying around it for now.

[hyzhenhok]

Lawl, I still find it amusing that sparring weapons get so bloody.

I don't really see anything that leads me to believe that Zalanthan sparring is non-brutal and non-potentially-deadly. Those of us who've played long-lived combat PCs in charge of training other combat PCs have probably all nearly killed a newb or three doing it (if we're lucky--if we're not lucky, we actually HAVE killed a newb). If you get injured in sparring, you are injured. (And I, personally, would love to see PCs not just fucking shrugging it off when they get badly hurt in sparring. Roleplay the pain, bitches!) Zalanthans chop mothafuckaz up with bone sparring swords, after all. This is not modern fencing or play-kwan-do at your daddy's dojo!

Back to the original point, I would love to see a more extensive/informative injury/wound system, but I don't think we're gonna get it for 1.ARM. I'm OK with just roleplaying around it for now.

We weren't talking about brutality; he simply mentioned that it's silly that a single solid blow with a blunted sparring weapon will cover it with blood (as it would any weapon). Weapons get blooded regularly even when you have PCs that carefully avoid going below "moderate" while sparring.

As for reduced brutality, perhaps the fact that what would have been a 30 damage blow only did 10 damage with the sparring weapon (made up figures) should be evidence enough.

[Marshmellow]

I think the fact that you did 10 damage is enough to get something bloodied, actually.  Just because it's a training weapon doesn't mean you couldn't get a bloody nose, or in the case of weapons that should be sharp, small cuts.  There could be degrees of bloody, but I think that's asking too much.

[3kanks]

I think the sparring injury line is a difficult line to balance on. I'm willing to give people a lot of leeway on either side of it.

[Gimfalisette]

Just to clarify: I didn't mean "sparring injury" in terms of "you took 10 hp damage during a fistfight," I meant the sort of situation where you got badly hurt enough to codedly need to sleep it off.

And when a weapon is "bloodied" I don't think that necessarily means it's "covered in blood." It's just got some blood on it. The quantity probably varies.

That being said, for sparring in general I really appreciate it when players roleplay their PCs getting tired, out of breath, feeling the pain, and the other physical signs of exertion. Sparring should be hard.

Also, emote.

[hyzhenhok]

Just to clarify: I didn't mean "sparring injury" in terms of "you took 10 hp damage during a fistfight," I meant the sort of situation where you got badly hurt enough to codedly need to sleep it off.

And when a weapon is "bloodied" I don't think that necessarily means it's "covered in blood." It's just got some blood on it. The quantity probably varies.

That being said, for sparring in general I really appreciate it when players roleplay their PCs getting tired, out of breath, feeling the pain, and the other physical signs of exertion. Sparring should be hard.

Also, emote.

I think the point is there is no grey area between "semi-solid hit to the mul's wrist with sparring sword" and "one-shot decapitation of a bahamet" when it comes to whether or not your weapon gets bloodied. It's the same as the bleeding messages: there's a bit of silliness that results from the lack of descriptive variation, even if ultimately everyone understands not to take the descriptions at face value.

I realize really nasty one-shots will often also bloody other people in the room with splatter, but that's beyond the point.

[Voular]

Soviet Russia votes yes.

[spicemustflow]

I agree regarding bludgeoning weapons/unarmed damage.

You don't think a hammer to the face would cause bleeding?

But, I agree, it is stupid if you bleed when you're starving. I didn't even know it was the case.

[Potaje]

How about when you bloody your weapon off a training dummy, which leaks sand. I always find that humorous and nonsensical.

[MeTekillot]

How about when you bloody your weapon off a training dummy, which leaks sand. I always find that humorous and nonsensical.

Unless you're playing a half-giant, I don't think you can hit a sparring dummy hard enough to actually cause your weapon to get bloodied.

[Sephiroto]

Folks, the original topic has been completely derailed.  The OP wasn't talking about bloodied clubs or sparring weapons, he was talking about changing the message the 'sdesc' reflection of injuries.  Please get back on track.

[Marshmellow]

Oh, yes, on topic:  I don't care either way, really.  The only benefit to changing the descriptors to something more injury-type neutral is that newbies will assume bleeding, whereas the rest of us know better.  If it's a simple fix, couldn't hurt.

[Gunnerblaster]

I would prefer the 'injured' messages instead of 'bleeding'.

It's more generic and easier to roleplay around.

Bleeding profusely is taken as, "spraying blood all over the damn place".

[LauraMars]

Yes, I would love it if injured auto-sdescs were changed to a more neutral descriptor.

[valeria]

I really like the idea of the descriptors being changed to more injury-neutral ones.

On bleeding--Once upon a time I watched a girl get into a fight with another girl.  She jumped the girl from behind and hit her in the back of the head (with a bare fist, as an untrained, pre-teen girl) and then us bystanders freaked out a minute or two later because she was bleeding down her back.  What happened?   The first girl hit the cheap plastic sizing buckle on the back of the girl's baseball hat and it cut her scalp.  Scalp wounds bleed like crazy.  So whenever I think of someone bleeding or the weapon is bloody because they've just been slammed with a club, or a blunted axe or sword, I think about the bone buckles or the edges of the armor digging into the skin and causing pressure cuts.  I know this isn't the most elegant solution, but it helps not to break my immerzions.

[Malifaxis]

Read:  I fucking way hard agree with this.

[Scarecrow]

Read:  I fucking way hard agree with this.

Shouldn't that be "And my Axe!".
To be a big picayune, anyways.

[slipshod]

This movie scene always reminded me of how rough a match with sparring swords could be.  Just imagine all that blowing rain is sand.

[hyzhenhok]

This movie scene always reminded me of how rough a match with sparring swords could be.  Just imagine all that blowing rain is sand.

Yes, how rough a match with sparring swords can be when one person is intentionally trying to injure the other.

[X-D]

In sparring the intent of all my PCs has been to beat the other person senseless. So yes, it is a good scene I think.

[Qzzrbl]

In sparring the intent of all my PCs has been to beat the other person senseless.

Your PCs, sure....

But not mine.

[X-D]

Even in real life that is often the difference between winning and losing.  You could be a 666the degree black belt in 37 martial arts, but if I know that you only compete in armored 3 point tourneys and never take real hits, I'll take you on.

Besides, I see pretty much any Zalanthan combat PC as having the mindset of "What does not kill you only makes you stronger."

Yes, how rough a match with sparring swords can be when one person is intentionally trying to injure the other.

You can only learn so much (very little) from somebody only pretending to want to hurt you.

[hyzhenhok]

Even in real life that is often the difference between winning and losing.  You could be a 666the degree black belt in 37 martial arts, but if I know that you only compete in armored 3 point tourneys and never take real hits, I'll take you on.

Besides, I see pretty much any Zalanthan combat PC as having the mindset of "What does not kill you only makes you stronger."

Yes, how rough a match with sparring swords can be when one person is intentionally trying to injure the other.

You can only learn so much (very little) from somebody only pretending to want to hurt you.

I see. Every Zalanthan combat PC has the same mindset. Good thing we've decided that there's no such thing as variety, as that would be contrary to our personal view of things. How convenient it is that every combat Zalanthan PC's mindset also coincides with your view of things.

Good luck with any combat PC that intentionally injures his sparring partners because apparently ideas of complex, modern things like "practice" and "learning" are absent in the harsh world of Zalanthas. Realistically, you'll end up with no sparring partners as your superiors have you sit out fights and your clanmates avoid sparring with you. Your mindset only makes sense in a world where a little rest or sleep in the shade can make any injury better, which while might be true of Armageddon is absolutely not what you should base your roleplay on.

I'm not saying Zalanthan sparring would have all of the safety precautions you see in modern sparring and martial arts, but that's a world away from every single Zalanthan PC deciding there's no such thing as sparring, and them all being out to completely beat the shit out of everyone else like they have a vendetta or something (as there was in the video linked above...). I'd say beating the shit out of a sparring partner for no reason other than "Zalanthas is harsh" is the worse roleplay. Save it for when you actually have a reason.

[X-D]

You are female aren't you?

I have to assume so because you have no idea what it is like to train for or be in combat.

Ever watch a UFC match? These guys get into the ring with the intention of killing the other person, Not simply hurting them, not simply winning, the intent is to kill. Anything less is to lose, if you get into a fight, ANY fight with the intent to do anything other then kill then you will lose if the other person has that intent.

When training to fight, the only difference between that and the real thing is the lack of a ref. When I get into the ring to spar, I still intend to kill my sparring partner, but since there is no ref I also keep in mind that I have to tell him when I am done and keep an eye on him as well. And I have to pay attention to the other rules. But inside the limits of the rules, I'm out to kill.

And why, because if you practice by pulling your punches or limiting your mindset, you are in fact training to pull your punches and you WILL do it when the real thing comes around.

Go to any reputable self defense class and they will tell you the exact same thing, That is why the good ones use those snazzy training dummies for the eye gouges and throat punches and elbows to the nose and groin. Because they want you to train using full force.

My comment had nothing to do with personal view other then if you have an intent to win or in the case of Arm, to survive you must take on a them or me attitude, there is no other way about it, and if you have taken on that attitude in a combat setting then your intent, at all times must be to kill. You can of course stop short of it.

No really, go out and learn these things yourself, then come back and post again. Or go talk to a pro or golden gloves boxer or a UFC fighter. You think that all the interviews before matches when they use the words Kill, destroy, hurt, break, they are just saying it for the fans? No, they intend to try. And every fighter getting into the ring, EVEN for a friendly spar knows that his opponent will try to beat him senseless that each strike will be aimed at a kill zone and with full intent to cause as much bodily harm as possible.

[Is Friday]

With that being said, you cannot go full force every single day and not get hurt.

[Sam]

Following that, there are some days when you just go through the motions.

[hyzhenhok]

You are female aren't you?

I have to assume so because you have no idea what it is like to train for or be in combat.

Wrong on both counts. Pretty telling how that's the first thing you jump to.

Ever watch a UFC match? These guys get into the ring with the intention of killing the other person, Not simply hurting them, not simply winning, the intent is to kill. Anything less is to lose, if you get into a fight, ANY fight with the intent to do anything other then kill then you will lose if the other person has that intent.

When training to fight, the only difference between that and the real thing is the lack of a ref. When I get into the ring to spar, I still intend to kill my sparring partner, but since there is no ref I also keep in mind that I have to tell him when I am done and keep an eye on him as well. And I have to pay attention to the other rules. But inside the limits of the rules, I'm out to kill.

And why, because if you practice by pulling your punches or limiting your mindset, you are in fact training to pull your punches and you WILL do it when the real thing comes around.

Go to any reputable self defense class and they will tell you the exact same thing, That is why the good ones use those snazzy training dummies for the eye gouges and throat punches and elbows to the nose and groin. Because they want you to train using full force.

My comment had nothing to do with personal view other then if you have an intent to win or in the case of Arm, to survive you must take on a them or me attitude, there is no other way about it, and if you have taken on that attitude in a combat setting then your intent, at all times must be to kill. You can of course stop short of it.

No really, go out and learn these things yourself, then come back and post again. Or go talk to a pro or golden gloves boxer or a UFC fighter. You think that all the interviews before matches when they use the words Kill, destroy, hurt, break, they are just saying it for the fans? No, they intend to try. And every fighter getting into the ring, EVEN for a friendly spar knows that his opponent will try to beat him senseless that each strike will be aimed at a kill zone and with full intent to cause as much bodily harm as possible.

I'd like to know what self-defense class has you gouging out the eyes and hitting nut shots against your sparring partners.

Get real, man. You sound more like a UFC/MMA fan boy than an actual self defense expert.

And did you even listen to yourself?

When training to fight, the only difference between that and the real thing is the lack of a ref. When I get into the ring to spar, I still intend to kill my sparring partner, but since there is no ref I also keep in mind that I have to tell him when I am done and keep an eye on him as well. And I have to pay attention to the other rules. But inside the limits of the rules, I'm out to kill.

Sounds like you're not out to kill to me.

[X-D]

Wow, at least read it before replying with junk. Here, let me help you.

Go to any reputable self defense class and they will tell you the exact same thing,That is why the good ones use those snazzy training dummies for the eye gouges and throat punches and elbows to the nose and groin. Because they want you to train using full force.

And why, because they are teaching things that can royally fuck somebody up, things that are mostly against the rules in any SPORT. And the ones that don't have dummies often have a live person wearing full padded body armor.

Also, I never once said I am a self defense expert. I am not, Self defense training is, in my opinion, stupid, it only works against somebody with no training or caught by surprise.

I am a fighter, Bare knuckles, boxing, kick boxing. That is what I do.

God, why do I bother.

Sounds like you're not out to kill to me.

Again, try maybe reading what was posted before replying...Hhhmm...maybe, can we try that?

Here, later in the post.

And every fighter getting into the ring, EVEN for a friendly spar knows that his opponent will try to beat him senseless that each strike will be aimed at a kill zone and with full intent to cause as much bodily harm as possible.

IN OTHER WORDS......Each and every strike is intent to kill, maim, injure or otherwise FUCK YOU UP. That does not mean I don't want to still have a beer with you afterwards...DUH, hence the point where I said WITHIN THE LIMITS OF THE RULES.

Oh, not female, then maybe raised in a single parent home where the parent is female or feminine?

Oh, and more on topic. I was playing racketball and the the guy playing with me got hit on the thigh by the ball hard enough to rip the skin a bit and cause bleeding....just saying, blunt force causing rips in the skin is really not rare.

That being said, I'm all for generic descripters for what kind of shape the PC/NPC is in.

[Barzalene]

I stopped reading after you're female aren't you?

[Synthesis]

X-D's been watching too many samurai movie montages.

[X-D]

I was wondering how long it would take Synth to pipe up.

And Barz, the intent was not to offend women.
Women do think differently then men, and tend to act differently, they tend to not be physically violent and so do not tend (keywords here are tend) to have much experiance in combat/fighting. Males who are raised by women tend to have lesser experiance in such matters as well.

And for the record, I do not watch such things, they annoy me far to much to be entertaining. Mostly because they give people the wrong or romantic impression as to what fighting is. Real fights are usually over in moments, no matter if there is weapons involved or simply unarmed. A person can only take so much damage on the one end and only has so much stamina on the other. Trained fighters do last for a few minutes before needing a break (Hence the rounds in all fighting sports) Untrained combatants will usually be too winded to continue in 1-2 minutes. Martial arts movies are the worst, they run around taking damage that would kill or lay a person out 150 times over the course of 15 minutes then still run 5 miles to get into another 20 minute fight where they would suffer the breaking of every bone they have 200 times over and come out sweating and with a scratch.

Also, I'm always willing to have a match, if your ever in phoenix and feeling froggy let me know. Bring your own mouth guard and groin protection and be willing to fill out the mutual combat form, I'll buy the beer for after.

I figure only Malifaxis would ever take me up on that, he has always struck me as the type to not mind getting bloody then sitting back and having some beers...could be wrong of course.

[Synthesis]

[X-D]

Damm Synth, your pretty...younger then I thought though.

[Rhyden]

Bleeding lightly to minorly injured.

Bleeding heavily to injured .

Bleeding profusely to severely injured.

Near death would remain near death.

Mortally wounded to dying.

This is a great idea, Venomz. Additionally, if this went in, you could still change your ldesc to bleeding lightly/heavily/profusely if your character was bloodied up enough.

[roughneck]

Control is more important than brutality in training.

Stitches will take you out of training for a week at best, broken bones obviously much longer.  It's hard to get better at whatever at whatever you're studying if you lack the physical ability to pursue it.  If your good at any type of combat art it's extremely easy to inflict debilitating injuries going half-force let alone full.

I'm coming from the angle of bjj and submission grappling and at least in my experience this is very much the case.  You don't learn anything by beating someone not as good as you, but by taking it easy or even giving your partner an advantage you can really smooth out and polish certain aspects of your game.

Even in the ufc most fighters don't finish the really brutal submissions given the chance because it's totally disrespectful to your opponent.  Some ignorant fighters try and do of course, but most armbars in the ufc and world-class grappling competition end in tapping or the ref stopping the fight, not a broken arm.  One severe armbar, leglock or heel-hook can have a drastic impact on that competitors body and career with the potential of never recovering fully, permanent loss in range of motion etc.

Sorry to disagree with you X-D.  I think I saw on the other thread you're from Texas, so at least your post has context .

[X-D]

At least you insult better then Synth....Texas, God, No, Detroit baby cakes. But currently living in Phoenix.

As for the rest of the post. Sure you can point out things that go with the way you wish to think on the matter....as long as you pick and choose only the components you want and make sure they are the less then lethal styles anyway. Which in your case you did. And even better, picked the ones that have no Arm counterpart.

But the part that Every single poster has ignored on this matter.

Ufc, mma, boxing, whatever, are Sports. You are not training to defend your life or end others. The only reason I even mentioned any of them is because if you are in even those sports, when it comes time to do a real match, often the winner is decided by who had the greatest will to win. You will not have the greatest will to win if you go in pulling your punches. You think any of them pull strikes in any way? No, they do not. And submission holds are just that, Holds that can damage but you simply do not push it that far...And something that has no counterpart in Arm.

In arm we are talking about training to kill or stop from being killed, It is not a sport, it is life and death. And again, I will state, and it is indeed true, hell you even pointed it out. If you train by holding back you train TO hold back, and outside of a sport that will get you dead.

And though you may not learn much by beating your opponent senseless...which is something represented in Arm, your opponent WILL, and this is also represented in Arm. You want to advance a combat PC fast, Get him beat the fuck out of. He will be better for it in the end.

[roughneck]

Detroit?  You poor bastard!

My main point was that if you seriously injure someone, they become unable to train and therefore weaker/less skilled.  Long-term injuries aren't represented in arm either (thank goodness).  But really we're talking more about philosophy and paradigms on fighting/training then we are the initial proposal now - and when it comes to philosophies on combat you find a great variety amongst even the highest echelon of combatants.  An area where it's cool to see how different PC's approach it and an opportunity to communicate and develop your own PC's attitude and perspective.

So addressing the point I should have in the beginning:

Bleeding lightly to minorly injured.

Bleeding heavily to injured .

Bleeding profusely to severely injured.

Near death would remain near death.

Mortally wounded to dying.

This is a great idea, Venomz. Additionally, if this went in, you could still change your ldesc to bleeding lightly/heavily/profusely if your character was bloodied up enough.

I'm for it!

[Qzzrbl]

You think any of them pull strikes in any way? No, they do not.

That's because they're trying to win....

Sparring isn't a competition.

[MeTekillot]

This thread is about injury messages. Not the mechanics of sparring.

[Ampere]

When I was ten, my eight year old cousin dropkicked me in the chest. I spazzed and cranked him in the head with a plastic cup. He completely freaked out when it began to bleed. Fearing an ass whooping on the parental end, and not yet feeling satisfaction in regards to my throbbing ribs, I convinced him to stick a maxipad on the wound. Everyone thought it was so damn hysterical I pretty much got off scot-free. They took pictures.

...If a ten year old terran can draw blood with a plastic cup, I'm sure a zalanthan warrior could pull off the same trick using a club.

Still, more ambiguous injury descriptors would be nice.

[Malifaxis]

X-D, you're right on that.  A bout is a bout, kill for the moment and then enjoy life when you both don't die.

However, I'm going to back MeTekillot on this... this is about INJURIES not sparring.

So could everyone please wipe the sand out of their (orifice of choice, whether male or female) and get on with the discussion about INJURIES please?

[Sunburned]

You think any of them pull strikes in any way? No, they do not.

That's because they're trying to win....

Sparring isn't a competition.

For the ideal student, who's interested in the long term benefit, maybe.

But who's an ideal student in Zalanthas?

There are plenty of Byn brutes who spar to hurt, because they're cruel.  There are soldiers that spar to beat their superiors, because its vindicating.  A couple alley rats settling things with fisticuffs atop the Folley certainly are fighting for ego.

And for all of these, and more, its okay, because its realistic.  Everyone wants to be a winner, and in a world where many people survive by swinging a sword, they know that their reputation and identity is at stake every time they are seen in combat - even if its just sparring.

In Zalanthas, self-preservation is the name of the game, and I highly doubt anyone has been afforded the perfect, educationally-conducive environment that would encourage the mutual respect to your opponent that people are describing.  The only exception I can think of is the Akei, and I can recall more than one conversation of people accusing the tribe of being un-Zalanthan.

Edited to add: In fact, I don't think the Akei even spar.

Edited again to add: Love the idea, Venomz.  Vote +1

[brytta.leofa]

I concur with OP.  "Injured" is better than "bleeding."

For a very far-out plan, I'd be interested in a more complex health model that actually tracks different kinds of injuries.  We would still have a hitpoint display, but hitpoints would be a derived quantity, not the fundamental description of health.  Internally, each wound is its own "affect."  Physicians can diagnose wounds (in a non-spammy way).  Your code-generated ldesc reflects your most obvious wounds.

A fairly simple way would be to track hitpoints individually for body parts and for major body systems.  Each body part has a health measurement, and can affect your overall health by a certain percentage.  For instance:
- Head - affects 100% of health.  (That is, a bad head wound can kill you outright.)
- Chest - affects 100% of health.  (Heart stoppage, etc.)
- Thorax - affects 70% of health.  (Being cut in half doesn't kill you; it's the other systems impacted...)
- Limbs - 20% each.
- Circulatory system - 100%.
- Respiratory system - 100%.
- Etc.  Our medically-inclined folks could do a much better breakdown.

So how do we derive hitpoints?  Suppose you're hit on the head for 10 damage, and your head has 20 hp on its own.  Your head, now at 50% health, can affect 100% of your total hitpoints, so your hitpoint display is, at most, 50% of its maximum.

But what if you already had a sucking chest wound, taking your "chest hitpoints" down to 25%?  Your hitpoints wouldn't immediately appear to drop from the head wound; you're already 75% dead.

But here's where it gets interesting: each wound can have multiple complicated affects.  Your sucking chest wound isn't just holding down your chest's hitpoints; it's also mucking badly with your respiratory system over time.  You start to feel lightheaded.  Your blows get weaker.  As you drain the oxygen from your system entirely, your respiratory hitpoints tick down-- with anything other than rest and quick treatement, you may suffocate.

On the other hand, blows to your limbs can never kill you directly.  Now, an amputated hand might cause you to bleed out over a period of a minute or so...but that's because the wound is mucking with your circulatory system.  Maybe the wound affect prevents you from holding something in the affected hand.  But a 500-damage blunt trauma to your arm can never instakill you.

I'm out of steam.  But I think something like this could be done in a very clever way that keeps the simplicity of hit and stun points while drastically increasing immersion.

[Gunnerblaster]

That seems... Complicated.

[MeTekillot]

And it would probably lead to a lot more dead PC's.

[brytta.leofa]

You guys just aren't hardcore enough.

[Kryos]

I'm a fan of targeted injuries and modified descriptors.  This has come up in the past and I voice my agreement there as well.

As for badass full contact sparring.  No.  Just no.  If units did that every day they'd never be in fighting condition:  everyone would be laid up with broken bones and concussions.  Even 'soft core' sparring leads to injuries.

[Riev]

I am still for a system that I had an idea for, and 7DV kinda reworked into something better, where you can codedly reduce your combat skills by a percentage, at will. Sort of a "Oh, well, in sparring I don't really -try-", and skill gains would be somehow set to either no-gain or gain at a slower rate when not at 100%.

Then you could emote your strikes being accurate, but you're still "pulling punches".


Oops on topic:

Injured is a lot better than bleeding, considering the multitude of things that can cause HP loss. Someone comes into the Gaj after falling off their beetle, and they're bleeding lightly makes it sound as though they have a gash in their head thats still bleeding. At least a "barely injured" sounds like "Oh hey, he looks like he fell off a wagon."

[Gunnerblaster]

I probably vote we get this whole derail started in another thread & have this one closed.

I mean, the general agreement is that we would like to have the descriptives for injuries changed from 'bleeding' to 'injured'.

I don't think this would be very hard to work into the current game and to carry over to 2.0.

[Spoon]

Cool idea, though I propose (or rather, steal from threads in the past) that rather than 'injured' have something relating to condition in general. It has been suggested before that the condition message you get from 'assess' could be tagged on after the sdesc, or something along those lines.

You know, just to avoid appearing injured from poison etc.

[brytta.leofa]

You know, just to avoid appearing injured from poison etc.

Which is where I meant to be going a few posts up, before I distracted myself.  If the code is keeping track of exactly what is wrong with you, it can create a more appropriate ldesc: "bleeding heavily" for slicing/chopping/clawing wounds, "badly injured" for blunt trauma, "very ill" for poison.

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

Cool idea, though I propose (or rather, steal from threads in the past) that rather than 'injured' have something relating to condition in general. It has been suggested before that the condition message you get from 'assess' could be tagged on after the sdesc, or something along those lines.

You know, just to avoid appearing injured from poison etc.

I'd be fine with that. I completely forgot about those messages.