Mining. Realism?

[Anaiah]

A few SMALL points:

With both mining 'and' salting, there are measures in place to make SURE that only a realistic quantity can be traded in each day. If you're having issues with this specific measure, such as following the guy in who fills them up and then you can't trade yours, that sounds like an issue to deal with IC.

Secondly: Clans are definitely an important and integral part of the game. That said, the same people who complain about the number of magickers and the like are often the ones complaining about how clans suffer. Think about this: How realistic is it to have 75% or so of pcs in clans when the population of those clans actually makes up a much smaller slice of the virtual demographic?

Third: There are plenty of coded dangers in and around such areas. The fact that you haven't encountered them makes you either lucky, or means you've learned from experience where they are. Either way, it doesn't speak to a greater need for it, nor does it address the threat other players can pose.

Fourth: Unrealistic behavior and abuse of the code can, and will, be caught, at least in the long term, and most definitely acted on in a corrective fashion, with both the proper IC and OOC consequences for the actions. Stop policing others and try to enjoy the gameworld for what it is, and what you make of it for yourself. If you don't like miner Joe, ignore him, or off him, or torture him, or pay a group of buddies to beat the shit out of him every time he comes into the Gaj.

And now I'm back to lurking in the shadows.

[Bilanthri]

The instant a player tries to use a significant portion of any wealth they've gained without social or political connections, they face the possibility of being consumed alive by the powers that be.  Even legitimately influential and powerful independents in the past got their asses handed to them on differing occasions by people with far-flung political power.  Illegitimately rich people that stick their necks out get them chopped off.  If they never stick their necks out and instead spend their money on smaller things, does it matter how much 'sid they have?  I would say "no."

This makes me think of the quandary of the quick-rich drug dealer. Big bank roll with no political clout to defray legal persecution. The smart ones end up in a crappy little apartment with lots of expensive little toys. The ones that buy Mercedes don't keep them for very long.

[Qeynos]

With both mining 'and' salting, there are measures in place to make SURE that only a realistic quantity can be traded in each day. If you're having issues with this specific measure, such as following the guy in who fills them up and then you can't trade yours, that sounds like an issue to deal with IC.

This is actually one of my bigger gripes with mining. The quota mechanic is unrealistic in two sort of opposite ways:

1) The amount of money you can make from single-handedly filling the quota is too much. If noone else is contributing to the quota, you can sell 350 'sid worth of obsidian per day. That is an absurd amount of money for one character to earn doing what is supposed to be menial work of the worst kind. I appreciate that it was probably not intended for one player to do so, but that's entirely possible and even easy if one knows how to go about it. And since there's really not that many players actively engaged in mining at a time, the quota is yours alone half the time. The other half...

2) The quota itself is unrealistically low, and seems to be an obviously artificial cap placed to prevent people from going completely overboard. The city-state of Allanak, known specifically for its obsidian, would surely buy more than fifteen chunks per day. There's a whole street named after it, an office with a templar, basically an entire trade centered around obsidian and mining it. I cannot consider it an IC fact that the office will buy less than one guy can bring in per day, so I cannot justify imposing IC consequences on someone who does so. That guy did not actually single-handedly put the entire city's population of miners out of work, so going after him because of the quota would be twinking in my eyes. Besides, what would one do? "I can't sell obsidian today because of you. Prepare to die!"?

This is why I suggested lowering the value of the chunks and doing away with the quota.

[Sam]

How can anyone make money doing this?

I have never been able to, I just end up holding onto thre large chunks for four days. Then I'll buy water, drink it all, and fill it back up and go out again. Making an extra twelve coins.

[brytta.leofa]

How can anyone make money doing this?

I have never been able to, I just end up holding onto thre large chunks for four days. Then I'll buy water, drink it all, and fill it back up and go out again. Making an extra twelve coins.

That's because you're doing it right.

I've found it to be just above subsistence work for a mundane, unclanned human with average stats played by someone with at least a tiny sense of shame.

[hyzhenhok]

You need a high stamina pool, a mount, a tent, and/or a good understanding of the wastes in order to really "abuse" the mining code. So the people getting really rich off of mining are the ones that realistically should have the capability.

Edit: I just realize I already made a similar post earlier in the thread. Whoops.

[Qzzrbl]

I once staked out the Mining office to -find- the motherfucker who was loading up and selling all his shit before I could get the chance to.

A late-night savage beating or two later, I didn't have any problems whatsoever.

[DustMight]

Just an idea:

What about an underground mine run by the templarate that characters could use like the cotton fields of Tuluk?  All the obsidian would go to the bosses when you were leaving, there would be plenty of slave and whatnot about and maybe not totally safe, either, in the deeper sections (spiders, whatnot).

The surface obsidian could then be moved further away making it more dangerous (perhaps more profitable, also?) and less frequently respawning or respawning in random locations (if it doesn't already, I can't remember).

The underground mines seem to me to be more realistic.

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

I actually agree with this, and I do wish that mining had been underground foraging in a mine, rather than cracking shit off of the surface. But, it's good as it is.

[HavokBlue]

YOU HAVEN'T MINED ENOUGH SID, FRIEND.

[MeTekillot]

YOU HAVEN'T MINED ENOUGH SID, FRIEND.

Where's your collar, slave?

A half-giant soldier subdues you.

A half-giant soldier fits you with a jade and green slave collar.

A half-giant soldier roughly shoves you down.

[Bilanthri]

I actually agree with this, and I do wish that mining had been underground foraging in a mine, rather than cracking shit off of the surface. But, it's good as it is.

Who needs a mine for glass made from lava flows?

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

Damn.

Good point.

[Aaron Goulet]

Damn.

Good point.

[Spice Spice Baby]

(I have never seen arm sized obsidian IRL)

Randomly, my father's house was landscaped with huge chunks of obsidian. They were very sharp, but not in the sense that you'd cut yourself if you picked one up. Heaven forbid the time I fell off another boulder onto one, though. 




I agree that mining in Arm isn't wholly realistic, but I think people are making it out to be a lot bigger deal than it is. If you want mining to be roleplayed more realistically, then set an example. When you find characters going out to mine, go with them and get down and dirty with them. Either RP mining being rough, miserable work that makes you sweaty and dehydrated and cut-up... or hold them up and steal their 'sid afterward to show them it isn't safe.

I know it's a well-worn Arm cliche by now, but be the change you want to see.

[Scarecrow]

I think a great deal of the mining being totally safe and extremely profitable argument is just wrong. I won't go into IC methods or such, but trust me, mining is deadly. Also I can easily think of several other ways of making coin, several times safer and more profitable, that would be more open to being labelled as over-profitable.
Personally, I do not like to mine because of the crippling stamina drain from doing it. Exhausted, heavily encumbered prey is easy to run down, even if you are only a half dozen leagues from the city gate.
Plus too, you can pretty much put money on the realisation that now all the raiders and psycho killers will be staking out the mining spots since the idea has now been firmly planted in their twisted minds.
Watch your backs out there, babies. 

[Kryos]

I've had two characters use mining as a means to launch themselves towards efficacy.

Both have:

Been raided
Been gicked
Been attacked by very dangerous wildlife
Been attacked by kill-oriented PCs

Safe:  no;  Lucrative: maybe.  You spend a lot of overhead keeping yourself alive out there. 

Final thoughts: Mining is fine.

[Socko]

I've never done much lumberjacking, but mining was always one of those things that I could never make a lot of 'sid doing. It was always a constant race to fill my character's waterskin, and if he/she got hungry on top of that? Even more difficult.

If picking cotton, digging dung and clay and lumberjacking aren't enough for a character to subsist up North, I can see the discrepancy. I don't know if there's anything that can be done to remedy the situation, though. Everything we're talking about is abundant in the Northlands. Obsidian deposits are relatively uncommon in the South; you really have to work for your haul. The same goes for salt. I'll grudgingly throw in my two stones that say the system is fine as-is, though I do think the economy needs some fixin'.

[Marshmellow]

You may be playing it safe, which is to say that you're playing with less risk and thus less gain, Socko.  I don't know how many deposits you know of, but they may be more common than you suspect.

[Socko]

Sounds about right for me. :] My rule of thumb: Whenever you stand to make a huge windfall, you're usually just a step away from the razor's edge. Stay out in the wastes for too long, and the probability that you'll be ganked rises tremendously.

[Scarecrow]

Sounds about right for me. :] My rule of thumb: Whenever you stand to make a huge windfall, you're usually just a step away from the razor's edge. Stay out in the wastes for too long, and the probability that you'll be ganked rises tremendously.

Gospel from the Bible of Armageddon. This is wisdom people, listen to dis.