Mining. Realism?

[Timetwister]

Is it just me or does anybody else find it somewhat laughable that people can go to town on a huge chunk of glass or obsidian and not suffer any ill effects besides getting a bit tired? I mean realistically you would cut yer hands up pretty bad even if you wore protective gear. You're hacking at glass with a stone tool. It's such a cheap way to make money as well for PC's there should be some drawback besides the chance of running into a mean PC that might want to raid you.

In retrospect I guess it is a fantasy game, but I've always valued Arm for implementing things that make sense in a way. This has been in for a while and I guess it's just now becoming a pet peeve of mine.

[Riev]

I feel pretty sure I've lost at least three PCs mining/salting around Allanak because I thought "Its really easy, and there are no real threats."

The gith, the spiders, the scrab, and the rest of the ENTIRE BESTIARY OF ARMAGEDDON MUD disagree with me on that fact, numerous times a year. When you're outside, you run the risk of getting raided, killed, or worse... embarrassed. Sure, it brings in some quick coin in the short term, but eventually shit catches up with you. It also can take 10 whacks, or 100 stamina, just to get a few chunks out of the deal. And if you're too heavy, you can't walk back to the city. There is a lot involved, but in so posting this, you may entice the beasts of Ginka to come for you. Enjoy!

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

I wouldn't mind it if you cut yourself mining glass. As long as I get an acho about the issue, I have no prob with that. However ... leather or better gloves and sleeves should cut this down to close to nothing.

[Aaron Goulet]

I've RPed cuts from handling glass without gloves before, so I don't see it as entirely unplausable.  The question is, short of being completely careless, would you cut yourself enough to do significant damage?

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

Glass sucks - being careful does not always ensure safety. It's unlikely that it would be major, though.

[X-D]

Nah.

Look at the items you get from mining glass and obsidian IG.

Then look at large chunks of glass or chert or flint IRL (I have never seen arm sized obsidian IRL)

A head sized block of glass is no worse then handling the same sized chunk of granite or flint or any number of crystaline rocks.

Now, if you had to collect up tiny shards IG instead of softball sized blocks or dwarf sized blocks, Sure, I could see cuts.

Also, shards of glass/obsidian are very light and with no real starting volacity, and even then slow to harmless speeds in only a few inches. Combine that with the fact that most PCs IG wear leather and sandcloth, which is meant to be protective against blades and flying sand and rocks. The most common tool used is a glasshacker, which is basicly a pickaxe with a nice long handle, putting you a good 5-8 feet from the slag, depending on your race.




Large chunk of arm glass/obsidian

[Aaron Goulet]

Nah.

Look at the items you get from mining glass and obsidian IG.

Then look at large chunks of glass or chert or flint IRL (I have never seen arm sized obsidian IRL)

A head sized block of glass is no worse then handling the same sized chunk of granite or flint or any number of crystaline rocks.

Now, if you had to collect up tiny shards IG instead of softball sized blocks or dwarf sized blocks, Sure, I could see cuts.

Idea:  Flash powder shrapnel grenades! 

[hyzhenhok]

From a realism standpoint, I don't really agree. The only characters that can get away with having at a deposit with impunity are those with a big stamina pool, those with a tent, or those who know their way around the wastes. That these kinds of people have an easy time of making money doesn't strike me as unrealistic.

From a balance standpoint, grebbing and hunting around Allanak is infinitely more dangerous than grebbing and hunting around Tuluk, so it's only fair the the rewards would be greater.

[Gunnerblaster]

Nothing will ever be safe in this game, as long as you play with other players.

[Qeynos]

Mining is wildly unrealistic in all ways, from the physical aspect to the fact that it pays more than almost anything else if you don't deliberately hold back and refrain from mining as much as you can get away with. It's really just a way for people to ease into a new character by not having to spend weeks laboring their way up to a set of reasonable armor and a mount. I always got a bad taste in my mouth when I saw groups of PCs starting "mining companies" and such, because the kind of money you can make from that kind of endeavour is grotesque. If I use mining at all, it's when I make a new warrior and want to join the Byn but don't want to do it with three pieces of leather armor and no mount. Then I never do it again once I have the basics established. Obsidian mining always seemed like a band aid on the game's often ridiculous economy model.

The gith, the spiders, the scrab, and the rest of the ENTIRE BESTIARY OF ARMAGEDDON MUD disagree with me on that fact

There are NO inherent threats involved in mining. Anything that can happen to you does so in spite of the game world, not because of it. Nothing dangerous will naturally occur near the commonly used mining spots, and only if someone has trained aggressive wildlife along and left it there will you have trouble with that. The vast majority of the time, mining is 100% safe, and even when it isn't, it takes extreme incaution to actually get killed by whatever can be pulled to that location. PC intervention is different, but that is likewise exceedingly rare and can usually be avoided, or at least dealt with in a way that doesn't end in your death. If mining was really unsafe it would also be unpopular, and that is in no way the case.

[Spice Spice Baby]

There are NO inherent threats involved in mining. Anything that can happen to you does so in spite of the game world, not because of it. Nothing dangerous will naturally occur near the commonly used mining spots, and only if someone has trained aggressive wildlife along and left it there will you have trouble with that. The vast majority of the time, mining is 100% safe, and even when it isn't, it takes extreme incaution to actually get killed by whatever can be pulled to that location. PC intervention is different, but that is likewise exceedingly rare and can usually be avoided, or at least dealt with in a way that doesn't end in your death.

It's definitely possible to survive mining for a living if you're wily and lucky, but if you go out enough, something or somebody will eventually kill you.

I think the reason you see so many 'miner' characters who don't end up dying to hazards while mining is because mining is a starter occupation often preferred by newer PCs fresh out of chargen. After a certain point, they get a different job or their skills increase to the point of where they can live off their guild's abilities and be a hunter/merchant/whatever, and they stop mining for a living, like your Bynner example.

Sure, if you go out mining twelve times and don't die, then for those twelve trips, it will be 100% safe to you. But like everything else in Armageddon that seems risk-free on the outside, it's only a matter of time. Trust me.

[Qzzrbl]

There are NO inherent threats involved in mining. Anything that can happen to you does so in spite of the game world, not because of it. Nothing dangerous will naturally occur near the commonly used mining spots, and only if someone has trained aggressive wildlife along and left it there will you have trouble with that. The vast majority of the time, mining is 100% safe, and even when it isn't, it takes extreme incaution to actually get killed by whatever can be pulled to that location. PC intervention is different, but that is likewise exceedingly rare and can usually be avoided, or at least dealt with in a way that doesn't end in your death.

It's definitely possible to survive mining for a living if you're wily and lucky, but if you go out enough, something or somebody will eventually kill you.

I think the reason you see so many 'miner' characters who don't end up dying to hazards while mining is because mining is a starter occupation often preferred by newer PCs fresh out of chargen. After a certain point, they get a different job or their skills increase to the point of where they can live off their guild's abilities and be a hunter/merchant/whatever, and they stop mining for a living, like your Bynner example.

Sure, if you go out mining twelve times and don't die, then for those twelve trips, it will be 100% safe to you. But like everything else in Armageddon that seems risk-free on the outside, it's only a matter of time. Trust me.

Yeah.... I don't even mine anymore because of the bad juju.

Something -always- happens to me now....

Poisoned arrow of doom.... Wandering spider.... Rogue 'gickers tend to favor preying for those newb boots too.

Heh, because 'sid mining is usually popular among fresh chars, those newb coins are usually easy pickin's.

[Timetwister]

Different strokes for different folks I guess. I've found it incredibly easy to make gratuitous amounts of money from mining, and have stopped using the system all together. Besides the fact that it makes no sense I think it puts a damper on real money making opportunities. Why join a clan that pays you to do stuff when you can walk 5 rooms from the gate and type use <whatever> for 20-30 minutes and make over 100-200 'sid?

I just noticed that a lot of players abuse the system and I think the chance that glass or your primitive stone tool might break and hurt you would add a bit to the realism of this endeavor.

I'm also wondering why in the hell the templarate of 'Nak would buy obsidian from people when they have an entire MINE of obsidian mined by slaves?

[Timetwister]

On top of it, the very reason obsidian is mined by slaves is because it's so sharp, brittle and dangerous that people probably cut the shit out of their hands on it. Just my opinion though. If it was so easy to get (which apparently it is) why would they need an obsidian mine full of slaves?

[Nahara]

Workers you don't have to buy/breed, feed, clothe, and keep not dead are generally cheaper than slaves that you do.

[Lizzie]

The obsidian mined by slaves is the lesser quality stuff, mass-produced for mass production of crappy weapons that soldiers use to bust over peoples' heads.

The obsidian individuals bring in are the pick of the heap; the better quality stuff used in higher-end weaponry, jewelry, and random accessories. And belt buckles.

[Timetwister]

Workers you don't have to buy/breed, feed, clothe, and keep not dead are generally cheaper than slaves that you do.

Kind of my point.. why would obsidian be so abundant and sell so well in a city that has an entire mine full of slaves dedicated to mining the shit? Obviously this is a "find out IC" question like most, but it's also an OOC economical question related to the mining system which is ridiculously unbalanced.

[Timetwister]

The obsidian mined by slaves is the lesser quality stuff, mass-produced for mass production of crappy weapons that soldiers use to bust over peoples' heads.

The obsidian individuals bring in are the pick of the heap; the better quality stuff used in higher-end weaponry, jewelry, and random accessories. And belt buckles.

Eh, I'm skeptical of this answer personally. I wasn't sure you could have "quality" of glass. Especially something that you dug out of the desert with a stone axe which takes absolutely no skill whatsoever. Anybody can do this.

[Nahara]

Workers you don't have to buy/breed, feed, clothe, and keep not dead are generally cheaper than slaves that you do.

Kind of my point.. why would obsidian be so abundant and sell so well in a city that has an entire mine full of slaves dedicated to mining the shit? Obviously this is a "find out IC" question like most, but it's also an OOC economical question related to the mining system which is ridiculously unbalanced.

Probably because you get paid in obsidian.

[Lizzie]

So make up an explanation that tickles your fancy Timetwister. This isn't supposed to be realistic. It's not real. It's fantasy. You can make up a fantastical explanation - as long as it makes sense -within the context of the game- it's all good.

[Qzzrbl]

The obsidian mined by slaves is the lesser quality stuff, mass-produced for mass production of crappy weapons that soldiers use to bust over peoples' heads.

The obsidian individuals bring in are the pick of the heap; the better quality stuff used in higher-end weaponry, jewelry, and random accessories. And belt buckles.

Eh, I'm skeptical of this answer personally. I wasn't sure you could have "quality" of glass. Especially something that you dug out of the desert with a stone axe which takes absolutely no skill whatsoever. Anybody can do this.

IRL, there are particular grades and qualities of glass-- volcanic or otherwise.

[Timetwister]

I understand you have a thickness of glass, hence bulletproof glass etc. But I don't see how a player's glass is of better quality then virtual glass mined by the virtual population of slaves that 'Nak owns. That's bordering on ludicrous if you think about the setting. It's all raw materials. Sure mekillot bone might be thicker then a human's bone, but I doubt that the player obsidian is somehow superior to any other just because it's mined by players.

[Qzzrbl]

Quality of glass and obsidian (RL) depends on many factors.

Contact with minerals, composition, how quickly it cooled, tiny fractures, trapped air bubbles, etc., etc., etc.

But still, I get your point....

If that 'sid and glass near the city is so damn valuable, why aren't slaves mining there?

[Nyr]

743
Allanaki Senate passes economic stimulus package for miners.

744
Tektolnes confronts Luir Dragonsthrall deep in the obsidian mines of Allanak. By use of incredible magicks, Tektolnes buries Luir under ninety-nine feet of rock.

[Nahara]

First thought: ... so obsidian is to Allanak as corn is to the U.S.?
Second thought: Have they been trying to find Luir since then?
Third thought: Nah, it's been 800 years.
Fourth thought: Oh, they have the mines because the Highlord likes to have the option to bury people in them.


.... Did I get what I was supposed to out of that post?