Let's dialogue about plots

[Twilight]

I have had a character that led the Byn.  I wouldn't recommend a return to that.

Player led plots doesn't mean clans led by players.

And it was a gwoshi, not a grue, incidentally.

[Talia]

What exactly is the difference between the glorious, exhalted plot and characters merely doing stuff?

May I present to you the History page? Everything on there since

1394: The joint forces of the Clear Waters Oasis tribe and the Ironsword clan attack Allanak's obsidian mine, managing to free the slaves. Thrain Ironsword dies in the battle along with several templars. After the attack the Clear Waters Oasis tribe, joined by a horde of former slaves, lay siege to Allanak. During this time, Tektolnes is mysteriously absent.

is history in which players participated and/or drove. Those are plots. None of those things were momentary events, they generally involved months of work and build-up on the part of players and staff.

[Wolfsong]

I have had a character that led the Byn.  I wouldn't recommend a return to that.

Player led plots doesn't mean clans led by players.

And it was a gwoshi, not a grue, incidentally.

In your case, I'm assuming, you mean you played a sergeant in the T'zai Byn - and let's face it, as a sergeant, dying is acceptable; heck, it's expected. The clan itself remains intact and stable despite a high PC leadership turnover. But what he is suggesting is to completely disregard the glass ceiling and open all leadership to PCs (and, I imagine, put out special roles for PCs to immediately take over traditionally NPC held leadership positions.) Would it increase player-driven plots? Possibly. (But I doubt it.) And it would also lead to an inherently unstable system and tons of staff work, especially when the leader inevitably drove the clan into the ground.

[X-D]

That is a point brought up that I agree with.

I think players should be allowed to get to near the highest ranks in a clan.

But staff has been going the other way on the matter, which to me seemed pretty silly when you add in player/driven policy.

Not so high as black robe templar or commander of the byn etc, but red robes, captains.

The arguement of turnover does not really hold water. The players capable of working up from say runner to captain are the same ones that are capable of keeping a PC alive for RL years, and often do.

The times where players have been allowed to move up very high in a clan rank have usually resulted in these large plots that many people remember.

[Talia]

I appreciate you all for participating, thank you all for your varied input, and am locking this thread up now. (Again, not because anyone's done anything wrong or bad, just so the discussion can be said to be done for now rather than trailing on.) I've compiled your feedback and delivered it to the staff.