The Dwarven Focus

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

Chargen:
Please input your dwarf's focus as a complete sentence, beginning with the word 'I'.
>I want to become the best swordfighter in all of the world.


In Game - randomly:
You think:
   "I want to become the best swordfighter in all of the world.

Changing focus - In Game:
>change focus
Please input your dwarf's focus as a complete sentence, beginning with the word, "I".
>I want to have the best collection of swords in the world.
Your focus has been changed.

Purpose this serves:
Constantly reminds all dwarven players, regardless of noobness, of their focus, no matter what they are doing. Emulates the dwarven mindset with minimal playability disruption.

[mansa]

Echo once every 4 hours.  Sounds good.

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

I'd make it once an IC day, or every 90 minutes. Some people don't even play for 4 hours straight. A majority, though, have 90 minute sessions.

[Drayab]

Alternatively, it could be based on the hours played timer. When 'hours played' ticks to something divisible by four, force the dwarf to have a dwarfish thought.

Great idea, IMHO.

[lordcooper]

  Do it!

[MeTekillot]

If it were to really emulate the dwarven mindset, it should echo this every ten seconds. But still, this is just as good.

[hyzhenhok]

I'm all for it, if the following auto-think is implemented for every other race:

>look dwarf

You think, "I have no idea what this dwarf's focus is or how he is planning on achieving it, so I should sit back and not worry about whether he's really acting like a dwarf."

Or maybe for the GDB, a warning message like the "someone has posted" message whenever you start a thread that says "If you believe a player is breaking the rules, you can file a player complaint."

Edit: Excuse me if I am being presumptuous, but I can't see any other reason for implementing this suggestion.

[Marshmellow]

Hyzhenhok, I can't tell if you're trolling or just ridiculously, violently opposed to this idea.  Perhaps some explanation instead of a snarky comment is in order?

[hyzhenhok]

Hyzhenhok, I can't tell if you're trolling or just ridiculously, violently opposed to this idea.  Perhaps some explanation instead of a snarky comment is in order?

Perhaps some explanation as to why this is a good idea besides having the opinion that there are too many poorly played dwarves?

Why not a periodic message that says "Make sure you're playing in character" for everyone? It's pretty much the same thing. We don't trust people to play the game correctly, so we have to give them reminders.

[Semper]

I don't know about forcing thinks onto a PC...

Perhaps instead, any "objective" that a player sets is announced/reminded to them whenever they log in, similar to the welcome message that appears.

[Bilanthri]

...so we have to give them reminders.

So what?
I'm reminded to RP every time I walk a necker into a crowded tavern.

Code Select Expand

Peering over from the bar, the plain-faced, tall man looks at you.

Scowling, the plain-faced, tall man closes his chinsy, rat-hide belt-purse.
With a frown, the plain-faced, big-breasted woman closes her silk and sequined satchel.
Following suit, the plain-faced, big-nosed youth closes his burlap sack.

With a heavy sigh, you sit at a table far away from all the activity.

You think:
       "Krath-damned roundears. One more night'a drinkin' solo."

Yea, this is a little satirical (and true), but the idea is there. Do players remind dwarves that they have to be dwarves? Not in my experience. But everyone makes sure that elves play like elves.

[Semper]

Yea, this is a little satirical (and true), but the idea is there. Do players remind dwarves that they have to be dwarves? Not in my experience. But everyone makes sure that elves play like elves.

But really. How can you remind a dwarf if the dwarf never shows their focus in the first place? Everyone know or can suspect an elf for being a thief, but a dwarf's focus can be as diverse as peoples' personality.

[hyzhenhok]

...so we have to give them reminders.

So what?
I'm reminded to RP every time I walk a necker into a crowded tavern.

Code Select Expand

Peering over from the bar, the plain-faced, tall man looks at you.

Scowling, the plain-faced, tall man closes his chinsy, rat-hide belt-purse.
With a frown, the plain-faced, big-breasted woman closes her silk and sequined satchel.
Following suit, the plain-faced, big-nosed youth closes his burlap sack.

With a heavy sigh, you sit at a table far away from all the activity.

You think:
      "Krath-damned roundears. One more night'a drinkin' solo."

Yea, this is a little satirical (and true), but the idea is there. Do players remind dwarves that they have to be dwarves? Not in my experience. But everyone makes sure that elves play like elves.

I am reminded I'm playing a dwarf every time the petite, pretty girl raises her hood to become the "tall figure" and every elf is an obese, humongous figure. I am reminded ever time I emote, because my sdesc contains the word dwarf. I am reminded because I have fluent mirukkim on my skills list. I am reminded because my Score tells me. I am reminded because people are always calling me a stump. I am reminded because I cannot serve in the militia or most noble houses. I am reminded because I moved so damn slow between each room. I don't need the game to send me a message that basically tells me I'm a dwarf, which is all a message that repeats my focus would do.

I know I am a dwarf on Zalanthas; therefore, I know I have a focus. How insulting can it be to suggest that people can't remember their own dwarf's focus? It's also rather insulting to the staff to think that they don't have any sort of criterion for approving dwarf applications. Dwarf apps must show a strong awareness of the Focus and its purpose. If your dwarves are getting through the application process, you are almost certainly aware enough of the documentation that it is absurd to think someone could forget about their focus.

I'm still waiting for a justification here besides that we don't trust dwarf players to roleplay their characters properly.

[Drayab]

1) Because it makes sense that such a thought would come unbidden to a dwarfs mind just as sure as a person gets hungry.

2) It makes dwarves even more unique and fun to play because it gives coded reinforcement for a particular aspect of dwarves that is a key feature of the race. Yes, I enjoy the simulation aspect of the game, which is the reason I play MUDs instead of MUSHes.

3) It makes your character seem alive when they start thinking on their own!

[hyzhenhok]

1) Because it makes sense that such a thought would come unbidden to a dwarfs mind just as sure as a person gets hungry.

2) It makes dwarves even more unique and fun to play because it gives coded reinforcement for a particular aspect of dwarves that is a key feature of the race. Yes, I enjoy the simulation aspect of the game, which is the reason I play MUDs instead of MUSHes.

3) It makes your character seem alive when they start thinking on their own!

1) I do it on my own. Better yet, I can tailor it to my dwarf's personality rather than just treating every dwarf as an automated Focus machine.
2) Why does it need reinforcement? It's already the main thing you're doing when you're playing a dwarf.
3) I am not my character, but I control them. Elves do not automatically steal. Half Elves do not automatically randomly switch between being loners and being desperate for friends. Templars don't automatically look down upon the masses. Dwarves should not automatically obsess over their focus.

[Riev]

I really have to agree with Hyzenhook. I cannot think of a single reason why this feature crawl would be considered a good idea in game. It is just a portrayal of how a few people feel about a few current dwarfs in game (who, I'm 90% sure do what everyone complains about on PURPOSE, so we are just feeding the troll).

A dwarf, on creation, has their Objective set to their focus, which is reviewed by staff before ever getting in game. Whenever a dwarf types score, they have their objective spit out at them. If someone is playing a dwarf, and not actively seeking to attain their focus, let staff deal with it. You can't possibly know what is going on in a dwarf's mind, and even if they tell you their focus, you can't possibly judge how they are going about it. If a dwarf's focus is to build a city, maybe they need to have the proper combat prowess to defend it. Or perhaps they are working as a hunter to gather the relationships and coin needed to get the slaves to build it.

A dwarf single-mindedly seeks their focus. Everything they do is to further that goal, in some way, but not every sentence must be "Hey, about that city?"

[Feco]

1) Because it makes sense that such a thought would come unbidden to a dwarfs mind just as sure as a person gets hungry.

I think this is an incredibly fair point.

[Marshmellow]

1) Because it makes sense that such a thought would come unbidden to a dwarfs mind just as sure as a person gets hungry.

I think this is an incredibly fair point.

Fair, true, but so is suggesting that if this should go in that elves get a, "Hey, should I be finding my next mark?" or half-giants get a, "Durr... what was going on?" every so often.  Why should a reminder be coded for one race to roleplay while another race shouldn't?

[hyzhenhok]

1) Because it makes sense that such a thought would come unbidden to a dwarfs mind just as sure as a person gets hungry.

I think this is an incredibly fair point.

Maybe if all dwarves were identical automatons whose only distinguishing factor were their focus.

Once you start layering personality, history, intelligence, etc, over the Focus, it really becomes a forced thing that doesn't really make sense as anything but a wagging finger.

[Drayab]

Hyzhenhok, I think we can agree that the code will never be able to match the efforts of a good player. I think we would also agree that it is counterproductive to try to simulate every little aspect of the game. However, I think that this is a small change and overall would be good for the game. It reinforces a key aspect of the race with minimal intrusion, so I think it is worthwhile. Why does it need reinforcement? Well, I wouldn't say it needs it per se, but in general terms, I think it is good policy that the code reinforces game documentation.

Things like whether it's time for the elf to try to steal something or should the half elf go on an antisocial streak are more difficult for the code to simulate because they are much more situational. The dwarf focus is steady as a rock, and there could be a command to explicitly change it on those rare occasions.

[Cutthroat]

I don't like this idea very much. If the intent is world enrichment, or helping new players understand what the dwarf focus is about, they're better served by being encouraged to read the documentation on this subject.

I think we also have to keep in mind what constitutes a dwarf focus. There are goal-oriented foci, and I imagine these make up the majority of PC dwarf foci. But there are also passive foci (e.g. "Protect my family") and conditional foci (e.g. "When I am hungry, I will only eat raw meat"). These may not be as popular with players but they are valid foci for dwarves, and they serve to show how awkward/jarring this proposed idea could get. A player of a dwarf may see the coded reminder, roll his eyes and say to himself, "Of course my dwarf wants to eat raw meat. I've been playing that angle since the start." Some foci fit this model much better than others.

It is also reasonable to state that the focus won't be at the forefront of a dwarf's mind sometimes. It's stuck into the objective at chargen, and I think that remains a reasonable way to remind the player what his/her focus is.

[Dar]

The only good thing that comes out of this idea in my opinion, is that it surefire guarantee that other people might get involved out of their own volition into the dwarven focus, simply by being able to learn about it.

[hyzhenhok]

Hyzhenhok, I think we can agree that the code will never be able to match the efforts of a good player. I think we would also agree that it is counterproductive to try to simulate every little aspect of the game. However, I think that this is a small change and overall would be good for the game. It reinforces a key aspect of the race with minimal intrusion, so I think it is worthwhile. Why does it need reinforcement? Well, I wouldn't say it needs it per se, but in general terms, I think it is good policy that the code reinforces game documentation.

Things like whether it's time for the elf to try to steal something or should the half elf go on an antisocial streak are more difficult for the code to simulate because they are much more situational. The dwarf focus is steady as a rock, and there could be a command to explicitly change it on those rare occasions.

I might agree with you were it not for the fact that complaining about dwarven roleplay seems to be the flavor of the month (see the 3-4 recent threads on various aspects of dwarves). As a police or mommy action to make sure our dwarves are playing right, I have to emphatically reject the suggestion. Seems to me it is the result of a misunderstanding of the Focus, a misconception that a lot of dwarves are played poorly because their focus isn't obvious, is a secret, or is too long term, and bitterness about the 0 karma high strength race.

There are better ways to accomplish the more reasonable aspects of the suggestion. For example, a special Focus entry that is separate from Objective would be awesome. I would see my Focus every time I hit Score and maybe even on entering the game, giving the proper reinforcement, while still being able to use the Objective command to communicate with the staff and/or delineate my more short term goals.

However, that simply forces my PC to do an action, be it thinking or something else (oh, Mindbenders getting instant access to every dwarf's focus. Nice bonus) is just unacceptable.

[Wolfsong]

Again, and I might be abusing the 'BIO' command when I do this, but I keep separate entries there pertaining to dwarven foci, recent character history, interesting character developments, etc. It opens up objective for more short term goals, IMO.

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

Until the last few years, I incessantly played dwarves. Thus, my idea doesn't stem from any policing desires. And you know what? Some of you are half-right. It's not needed at all. Not in the least. But then, noticing enough humming items than probably really shouldn't hum anyway isn't needed either.

The simplistic idea behind the proposal is to emulate the dwarven mindset. That's it. It's to jog that "everything is one thing" mentality, even in veteran players. It's really non-intrusive. What's more, it allows you to have an objective, and a focus. Right now, dwarven focus is objective.

It's not needed at all. It's flavor. I can't possibly imagine how anybody could be so violently opposed to such a minor thing. But, ok. Fair enough.

[hyzhenhok]

The only good thing that comes out of this idea in my opinion, is that it surefire guarantee that other people might get involved out of their own volition into the dwarven focus, simply by being able to learn about it.

Make friends with a dwarf (or better yet, make yourself useful to a dwarf) and you might find you can figure out their focus, even if it's a secret that they don't want to openly share. Giving mindbenders access to it isn't really going to add anything to the game; just because the game is spamming at me "You think: I want to usurp Tektolnes and rule Allanak as its Queen Dominatrix and turn the Nobility into my personal harem" isn't really going to make me want to involve other players by directly letting them in on things.

The simple fact is that most PC focuses are long term, difficult (and fun!) things that will never come to fruition before the dwarf meets their unfortunate demise. Most PC dwarves decide "I need to become good at X before I can start doing Y," and then they die well before this first phase of their plan can near fruition. They aren't roleplaying poorly. If you want to see more dwarf focus action, make friends with dwarves and help them stay alive. Make sure they know what you can do.

(PS: Dwarf Focus: Help every other dwarf achieve his/her focus.)

The simplistic idea behind the proposal is to emulate the dwarven mindset. That's it. It's to jog that "everything is one thing" mentality, even in veteran players. It's really non-intrusive. What's more, it allows you to have an objective, and a focus. Right now, dwarven focus is objective.

Why not just add a Focus field that is identical but separate to the Objective?

I find your suggestion extremely intrusive as it forces an action on my character. No thanks.

You think: I want to usurp Tektolnes and rule Allanak as its Queen Dominatrix and turn the Nobility into my personal harem. Talk about jarring, especially if I'm in the middle of a Mekillot hunt or a sorcerer just kidnapped me or I'm "quietly approaching my target" to do a backstab. Dwarves are obsessed, but they're not (necessarily) OCD and ADD.

[brytta.leofa]

Too much presumptive sekrets in this thread.

[valeria]

I think this idea is pretty silly.  I highly doubt the players of dwarves need to be reminded what their focus is.  And an auto-pop-up focus reminder might have very little to do with what the dwarf would actually be thinking about their focus at a given time.  For instance, take the focus 'build a better mousetrap.'  A dwarf could complicate the hell out of that, and may be thinking 'Oh I need to find people who know about the habits of mice to make this thing better,' or might be approaching it from the angle 'I really need to find myself some copper because those bone mousetraps are so unreliable.'

Now, if you wanted to give players an OPTION to enable this, for those players that think they'd find it useful, then I wouldn't be opposed.  But as it is it seems to be of very limited utility, and (to me) very high annoyance value.  The only thing it would jog would be my irritation, since on ANY character I'm already inputting regular, customized thinks about what's going on in their head.

[Riev]

It's not needed at all. It's flavor. I can't possibly imagine how anybody could be so violently opposed to such a minor thing. But, ok. Fair enough.

7DV, I can understand how this seems simple enough, not intrusive, and adding a bit of flavor. My issue with it is that its just Feature Crawling, and wouldn't really add anything to the game.

The reality is, while it may be helpful to one or two PCs, you need to think about all players of this game. As a veteran of understand how to work with a dwarven focus, I would be incredibly annoyed to the point of never playing a dwarf again, because things were being forced on my PC that have little to do with what is going on. If my PC thinks about something, and -I- dont type in think, it had better fucking be some uber mindworm telling me I should just walk off the Shield Wall, not some Invisible Hand guiding me down a fate -I'm- supposed to choose.

[Potaje]

My question is this, how the hell does anyone (other than the player of the pc and staff) even know that other players of  dwarves are not playing with in their focus. Less it is themselves they are complaining about not following a foci or needing a reminder. To this I would say, play another race and leave the dwarven role to someone that can handle it on their own. It all sounds very presumptuous and unneeded. 

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

I would like it, as a player who plays, and will play, and has played, dwarves.

It is apparent that others would not.

And that's just fine with me.

The only irritation that I have had with some of the opposition in this thread is the assumption that the idea was about policing players. It wasn't. It was, really, meant as nothing more than an emulation of the dwarven mindset. It was meant to be nothing more substantial than the echoes in place in many parts of the world. Flavor. Atmosphere. Reality.

I'm not offended in the least that people don't like my idea. I was more annoyed that people presumed an intent that never entered my mind.

But, I'm not annoyed now. I dig it. I see your points. Intent not withstanding, I can see how conclusions could be drawn. So. I dig it.

[drunkendwarf]

I've got quite a bit of experience in the dwarven realm. I've not once forgotten what my goal is and would be highly annoyed to be forcibly reminded of it. As an option players can choose, fine by me. As something forced, no sir.