Scales / Shop that allows you to weigh items..

[Dakota]

Not sure if this already exists but given that weight seems to be such an issue and as I've found, many classes don't have the value skill..

What are the chances that a merchant (tailor? someone who buys stones) could offer a service for a small amount of coin to weight items / containers filled with items / etc.

Trying to deduct what things weigh / how much you can carry that will push you over certain burdens has already exhausted way too many HOURS of playing time and this seems like it would be a relatively simple (and very helpful) thing to add.

Thoughts / Realistic possibility that this can happen?

Sort of odd it's not offered in some shops already (like if you buy something how come the merchant doesn't list how much it weighs or it doesn't give you an option to find out?)

[Qzzrbl]

I'd think a better solution would be giving excruciatingly low-capped value to every class....

I mean, really.

Who can't at least -try- to approximate the weight of stuff before buying it?

[Dakota]

I'd think a better solution would be giving excruciatingly low-capped value to every class....

I mean, really.

Who can't at least -try- to approximate the weight of stuff before buying it?

Just make a scales at a shop. Charge a small fee to weigh stuff for those who don't have the skill..

bonus points / making sense points to add the friggin weight to the item when you look at it in a shop..

Since encumbrance is an issue in the game I think this is only fair / fitting.

[LauraMars]

This used to exist.  I'm not sure why it was removed from the game.  But yeah, it was pretty useful.

[X-D]

There used to be one.

I assume staff had reason to remove it.

[Dakota]

This used to exist.  I'm not sure why it was removed from the game.  But yeah, it was pretty useful.

Ugh. I was hoping to get a resp that was: "Their is one.. find out IG" or something.. Heh instead it's the opposite.

Doesn't make sense as this would be clearly useful / make sense (and a nice sid sink)

[Dar]

I think they existed in a room that got destroyed? Also ... isnt it better to have a friend merchant who can do it for you for a little fee?


You can tell the weight "approximately" just a little off bit off without the value skill. You only need value for some presice number crunching, when you're 'exactly' one stone away from the next encumbrance level and stuff. I think it warrants hiring a merchant to do some shopping help for you.

[X-D]

The scale in nak was removed LONG before the area got messed up.

[Dakota]

I think they existed in a room that got destroyed? Also ... isnt it better to have a friend merchant who can do it for you for a little fee?


You can tell the weight "approximately" just a little off bit off without the value skill. You only need value for some presice number crunching, when you're 'exactly' one stone away from the next encumbrance level and stuff. I think it warrants hiring a merchant to do some shopping help for you.

1: This would be great if it wasn't so hard to find a merchant to do it for you.. Not to mention I think it would be a royal pain for the Merchant, no matter the RP, to be handed heaps of stuff to weigh again and again so -someone- IC would at least have a knowledge of what things weigh.

2: After testing Value with my no skill vs. someone experienced who has the skill.. I'm never only 1 stone off. More like 3-9 after a few tries. Also when you're trying to drop your encumbrance down to something that feels right and suddenly every stone counts, it'd be nice to get it right.

I just don't see why the shops wouldn't tell you what an item weighs when you view it or that scales would be that difficult to find / make as clearly they're going to exist in the world. Let alone a payable option to weigh things.

[Kankman]

I think the best solution would be to bring back the compare command, and only have it check weight.

>compare feather stone

Your white feather is much lighter than your triangular piece of sandstone.

[spawnloser]

Low-capped value would be relatively worthless, if you ask me.

I do like the idea of a compare command, so long as it was generalized.  Within a percentage tolerance, as in when items are close in weight but still possibly not exact, it should say 'about the same weight' and otherwise should just tell which is heavier, perhaps with percentage-based descriptors.

[Qzzrbl]

Low-capped value would be relatively worthless, if you ask me.

I do like the idea of a compare command, so long as it was generalized.  Within a percentage tolerance, as in when items are close in weight but still possibly not exact, it should say 'about the same weight' and otherwise should just tell which is heavier, perhaps with percentage-based descriptors.

Eh, low-capped value wouldn't be -entirely- useless.

I use value all the time, even without the skill, and the weights aren't -all that far- off.

Some way to use my non-skill when using "view" in a shop would make me a happy little snowflake.

[Dar]

Same here. Value an item 3-5 times and you can figure out the approximate weight, despite the inaccuracies.

[Kankman]

If you can assess a living thing to determine that it is "more than twice your height" and "about the same weight" you should be able to compare two items against each other.

[Qzzrbl]

If you can assess a living thing to determine that it is "more than twice your height" and "about the same weight" you should be able to compare two items against each other.

You already can....

value item 1

This first item seems to weigh 54 stones

value item 2

This second item seems to weigh 22 stones.

[Aaron Goulet]

There are subclasses that give the value skill as well.  Giving every character low-capped access to it essentially makes it less 'special' to the guild and subguilds that get it in the first place.

If you want to play a sneaky type who can estimate item weight, for instance, you could try playing a burglar/con artist.

[Qzzrbl]

There are subclasses that give the value skill as well.  Giving every character low-capped access to it essentially makes it less 'special' to the guild and subguilds that get it in the first place.

If you want to play a sneaky type who can estimate item weight, for instance, you could try playing a burglar/con artist.

Value has many more uses than simply seeing how much something weighs.

And that's all I really want to do.

Not even accurately. Just a ballpark estimate....

I want to see if that breastplate will break my low-strength character's back before I drop a few hundred coins.

We can already guess at how much a container item can carry without the value skill.

Why not do the same for weight?

::Edit::

And please don't go on about looking at an item's desc and trying to somehow glean a weight off that....

I know I'm not the only one who's been unpleasantly surprised to find out that those unassuming bracers actually weighed 30 stones each.*

*Not an actual example, but you catch my drift.

[Kiara]

There are subclasses that give the value skill as well.  Giving every character low-capped access to it essentially makes it less 'special' to the guild and subguilds that get it in the first place.

If you want to play a sneaky type who can estimate item weight, for instance, you could try playing a burglar/con artist.

I'm not asking to discover the value of an object. I just want to be able to guesstimate how much the damn thing weighs.

If I can do this in real life without a hitch, why can't I do it in the game.

Separate the skill_value from judging the weight of an object, thereby making the latter something all pcs can do. Or, just return scales back to shops. Boom fixed.

[Dar]

I'm still a strong supporter of having a merchant friend/burglar/con artist/whomever else with value friend. Employ them, get them to come with you shopping and they'll tell you an approximate weight.

[Kiara]

And if you're in an iso clan/tribe and no one has the ability...?

[Dar]

And if you're in an iso clan/tribe and no one has the ability...?

Give me an example? What clan out there prevents you from having contacts/associates/random barflies (give coin, come with me, mini rp scene) and 'still' allows access to shops and such like?

[Dakota]

And if you're in an iso clan/tribe and no one has the ability...?

Give me an example? What clan out there prevents you from having contacts/associates/random barflies (give coin, come with me, mini rp scene) and 'still' allows access to shops and such like?

For a time I knew of a certain group that had no one readily available or around that had someone which could do something.

Besides, while I'd MUCH rather someone in-clan do it for little or no sid and RP it as I pass over about 30 different items of stuff...

...it just seems odd that their is no weight on the VIEW command... + it would be an easy sid sink / make sense kind of thing to have in a shop to weigh things separately -if- you couldn't find a merchant to actually do it for you.

It's not about eliminating class-class RP at all. I'd rather do it with someone else but given that for many players weight is an issue and this seems like a relatively simple thing that would be available to people in the world, I don't see why this isn't possible / a problem.

I'll still need a merchant for things and even weighing items now and then even if scales existed. I'm not always in the safety / confines of a town or in a place where scales would be readily available.

[Kiara]

And if you're in an iso clan/tribe and no one has the ability...?

Give me an example? What clan out there prevents you from having contacts/associates/random barflies (give coin, come with me, mini rp scene) and 'still' allows access to shops and such like?

I shouldn't have to. Think of any xenophobic desert elf/human tribe and you've got your answer.

Not everyone lives in cities and has access to merchants.

Just sayin'.

[Dar]

Elves have access to "everything", provided they're not at war with everything. Only because it requires a little effort to procure help, doesnt mean its impossible. That's like saying that only because SR doesnt have anyone who can tan at the moment, they cant arrange to procure tanned hides.

Seriously. By the time you really begin to get picky about your gear to watch an extra stone here, an extra stone there. You probably have enough coin to go around. So coin sinks really wont work too much, if you prefer to spend an extra 100 coins, then become indebted to another pc. Oddly enough, this thread http://www.zalanthas.org/gdb/index.php/topic,39425.0.html comes to mind.

[Kiara]

Seriously. By the time you really begin to get picky about your gear to watch an extra stone here, an extra stone there. You probably have enough coin to go around/

1) Have you ever played an elf before? Every stone counts.

2) That's assuming you use coin.

3) That's why your logic fails - you're basing said logic on assumptions.

[Dar]

Heh. Believe me, I've played elves. Had my hand in creation of some things, A certain delf tribe takes for granted now    

And you're degrading into semantics. My point's made in the posts above.

[Thunkkin]

Rubbing his nose as he stares at his dirt-encrusted hands, the scruffy Byn Trooper says in sirihish,
    "I jus' ain't got th' sense fer it, Sarge."

Giving him a dubious look, the Byn Sergeant says in sirihish,
    "Well, Amos, it's simple.  Ya hold items in both yer hands there and whichever one feels heavier is, well ... heavier."

With a wistful, anxious sigh, the scruffy Byn Trooper says in sirihish,
    "It's jus' so hard, Sarge.  I know how it works an' I try an' try but it jus' ain't no good.  Mebbe, mebbe ya could help wit' it, Sarge."

The Byn Sergeant clears his throat, his shoulders stiffening.

Flicking some dust from his aba, the Byn Sergeant says in sirihish,
     "Oh.  Well.  Hrmhrm.  When it comes right down to it, Amos, I can't tell whether my bracer is heavier than a mek."

Gloomily, the scruffy Byn Trooper says in sirihish,
     "It's a hard life, Sarge.  Looks like I'll have t' spend a month's pay hirin' one o' them Kadians t' walk th' bazaar wit' me an' tell me which piece o' armor is heavier.  There's jus' no way we can do it fer ourselves.  It's beyond our mind's abilities t' tell if somethin's heavy."

Nodding in agreement, the Byn Sergeant says,
     "Best t' know our place in life, Amos.  There's some of us which knows tha' some things are heavier than others and some o' us which don't.  Those which do tend t' be rich since it's a rare an' special skill th' likes of th' Highlord blesses few people.  Those tha' don't are jus' fuckin' half-wits like us, I guess."

====================================

I think having to hire someone to tell you what's heavier than what is lame because I simply can't imagine it happening in any situation, in any culture, in any time period in Earth history.  You need scales to measure the weight of coins and small amounts of powders, etc., but figuring out whether your scrab shell bracers weigh more or less than your spiked duskhorn wristwrap shouldn't require having a special mental gift bestowed on you at birth or even multiple tries over time.  Any person who isn't mentally damaged should be able to do it without even realizing they're doing it.

[Kiara]

I wish I could sig the entire post above.

[Dakota]

Rubbing his nose as he stares at his dirt-encrusted hands, the scruffy Byn Trooper says in sirihish,
    "I jus' ain't got th' sense fer it, Sarge."

Giving him a dubious look, the Byn Sergeant says in sirihish,
    "Well, Amos, it's simple.  Ya hold items in both yer hands there and whichever one feels heavier is, well ... heavier."

With a wistful, anxious sigh, the scruffy Byn Trooper says in sirihish,
    "It's jus' so hard, Sarge.  I know how it works an' I try an' try but it jus' ain't no good.  Mebbe, mebbe ya could help wit' it, Sarge."

The Byn Sergeant clears his throat, his shoulders stiffening.

Flicking some dust from his aba, the Byn Sergeant says in sirihish,
     "Oh.  Well.  Hrmhrm.  When it comes right down to it, Amos, I can't tell whether my bracer is heavier than a mek."

Gloomily, the scruffy Byn Trooper says in sirihish,
     "It's a hard life, Sarge.  Looks like I'll have t' spend a month's pay hirin' one o' them Kadians t' walk th' bazaar wit' me an' tell me which piece o' armor is heavier.  There's jus' no way we can do it fer ourselves.  It's beyond our mind's abilities t' tell if somethin's heavy."

Nodding in agreement, the Byn Sergeant says,
     "Best t' know our place in life, Amos.  There's some of us which knows tha' some things are heavier than others and some o' us which don't.  Those which do tend t' be rich since it's a rare an' special skill th' likes of th' Highlord blesses few people.  Those tha' don't are jus' fuckin' half-wits like us, I guess."

====================================

I think having to hire someone to tell you what's heavier than what is lame because I simply can't imagine it happening in any situation, in any culture, in any time period in Earth history.  You need scales to measure the weight of coins and small amounts of powders, etc., but figuring out whether your scrab shell bracers weigh more or less than your spiked duskhorn wristwrap shouldn't require having a special mental gift bestowed on you at birth or even multiple tries over time.  Any person who isn't mentally damaged should be able to do it without even realizing they're doing it.

this

[Qzzrbl]

We don't need a compare command.

You can already compare the weights of items in your inventory using "value", even if you don't have the skill.

You'll be able to tell which is heavier, at the very least.

[Dar]

You can already do this with value, without having the skill.

New Subguild:Professional shopper.
Professional Shoppers are well skilled when it comes to figuring out the best price, as well as a keen eye for the qualities of products. They're also very pretty, an f-me description automatically generated for them, so silly grizzly, but very shy Bynners wouldn't be afraid to approach with offers for a quick job.



I dont know guys. I had the very same problems as you did. When my chara is pretty bad on strength and he has to ration out every stone. Somehow I always managed to solve that problem either by enticing the aide of my clan to come shopping with me (Oddly, they were only too happy), or having a lover/friend come shopping with me, or getting a GMH junior merchant (As an RF) get into the thick of it. All of it created some kind of interaction. And I did not have to do such things often enough for it to become a nuisance. It was definitely much more interesting then using a coded command.

[jstorrie]

I think this issue where it relates to encumbrance is a bit of a red herring. It's somewhat out-of-character to try to get your PC to precisely 80 stones, or whatever, so that you can wear the most stuff possible without going up an encumbrance category. While your PC does have some concept of being weighed down, he certainly has no idea that there's a specific threshold he crosses at value X which puts him in one category or the other.

What I recommend is just giving yourself a very large margin before the category jump. Your PC has no idea the limit is there and it doesn't make sense to nickel-and-dime how much you're carrying until you're right under the cap. If you're playing an elf with poor strength, well, tough luck.

[Dar]

I think this issue where it relates to encumbrance is a bit of a red herring. It's somewhat out-of-character to try to get your PC to precisely 80 stones, or whatever, so that you can wear the most stuff possible without going up an encumbrance category. While your PC does have some concept of being weighed down, he certainly has no idea that there's a specific threshold he crosses at value X which puts him in one category or the other.

What I recommend is just giving yourself a very large margin before the category jump. Your PC has no idea the limit is there and it doesn't make sense to nickel-and-dime how much you're carrying until you're right under the cap. If you're playing an elf with poor strength, well, tough luck.

I dont know about that. There is a reason why most professional gear is specifically weighted, with an entire industry that exists with containers and clothing designed for weight management and so on. I would think someone going out into the wild, someone for whom carrying extra crap can mean life or death, would take a rather critical approach to the stuff he's dragging around.

[Qzzrbl]

I think this issue where it relates to encumbrance is a bit of a red herring. It's somewhat out-of-character to try to get your PC to precisely 80 stones, or whatever, so that you can wear the most stuff possible without going up an encumbrance category. While your PC does have some concept of being weighed down, he certainly has no idea that there's a specific threshold he crosses at value X which puts him in one category or the other.

What I recommend is just giving yourself a very large margin before the category jump. Your PC has no idea the limit is there and it doesn't make sense to nickel-and-dime how much you're carrying until you're right under the cap. If you're playing an elf with poor strength, well, tough luck.

It's an issue with even low strength humans, even dwarves.

With some innocent-looking bits of gear, even some weapons weighing upwards of 40-50+ stones when compared to -much- lighter pieces that look to be made from very similar materials.

It becomes a problem.

And it really blows to have to be able to know the weights of most armor after a couple of years of playing the game so you don't accidentally over-encumber your character when you buy stuff.

'Cause blowing 500 or so 'sids on a piece of armor that brings you from "easily manageable" to "heavy, but manageable" -really- sucks.

[Synthesis]

Anyone with the value skill can see how much an item weighs before buying it.

You don't have the value skill? TOUGH FUCKING LUCK BRO.

The dude who picked the subclass that has value, or that merchant? Yeah, they sacrificed sets of skills that are infinitely more useful than that stupid value skill you folks keep complaining about.

RE: the little Byn example.  It's cute, sure.  But why can't a merchant learn how to parry? Or how to use a sword? How fucking hard is it, really?  Not hard.  They should be able to learn, but they can't, short of submitting a request to get skills added, which has a probability of success approaching nil.

This is a class-based system.  Not knowing exactly how much your shit weighs is one of the penalties you incur for picking a class and subclass without the value skill.  It makes JUST as much sense as any other class's lack of ability in any other skill...which admittedly is not much, but that's the way the game is, and it's not going to be changed...not even in 2.Arm.

[Kiara]

I think this issue where it relates to encumbrance is a bit of a red herring. It's somewhat out-of-character to try to get your PC to precisely 80 stones, or whatever, so that you can wear the most stuff possible without going up an encumbrance category. While your PC does have some concept of being weighed down, he certainly has no idea that there's a specific threshold he crosses at value X which puts him in one category or the other.

It's called optimizing. If you can do it in real life without being called a cheat, I think it's fair game in the MUD as well.

What I recommend is just giving yourself a very large margin before the category jump.

Not applicable in regards to elves.

[Kiara]

You don't have the value skill? TOUGH FUCKING LUCK BRO.

Oh hey look, it's another take on "suck it up". 

RE: the little Byn example.  It's cute, sure.  But why can't a merchant learn how to parry? Or how to use a sword? How fucking hard is it, really?  Not hard.  They should be able to learn, but they can't, short of submitting a request to get skills added, which has a probability of success approaching nil.

Learning how to properly engage someone in combat is infinitely more times harder than putting an item in your hand and gauging (to within a few stones) how much it weighs. If you disagree, you are arguing merely for the sake of arguing.

You cannot compare the two.

[Qzzrbl]

Anyone with the value skill can see how much an item weighs before buying it.

You don't have the value skill? TOUGH FUCKING LUCK BRO.

The dude who picked the subclass that has value, or that merchant? Yeah, they sacrificed sets of skills that are infinitely more useful than that stupid value skill you folks keep complaining about.

RE: the little Byn example.  It's cute, sure.  But why can't a merchant learn how to parry? Or how to use a sword? How fucking hard is it, really?  Not hard.  They should be able to learn, but they can't, short of submitting a request to get skills added, which has a probability of success approaching nil.

This is a class-based system.  Not knowing exactly how much your shit weighs is one of the penalties you incur for picking a class and subclass without the value skill.  It makes JUST as much sense as any other class's lack of ability in any other skill...which admittedly is not much, but that's the way the game is, and it's not going to be changed...not even in 2.Arm.

If you don't have the value skill, here's what you can do:

You can get an general estimate of how much an item weighs.

You can get a -very- rough, usually a good deal off, estimate as to how much an item costs.

You can get a general estimate of how much containers can hold.

You can get a general estimate of how much containers hold before buying it from a merchant.
__________________________________

Why is it I can get an estimate of how much a container can hold before buying it from a merchant?

Why doesn't -that- require the skill?

Why doesn't guessing an item's value without the skill not need the skill?

Why don't I need the skill to guess an item's weight is after buying it?

Guessing how much something can contain (a matter of stones), isn't all that far off from approximating something's weight.

The fact that we can't do so, is an inconsistency.

Kinda like how when poisoned arrows/knives used to not poison their targets.

That was an inconsistency.... Alot of people would have been pissed if Staff said, "Tough luck, nublet, just get in there and stab 'em like a man."

[Synthesis]

Well fuck it then, let's just get rid of the value skill altogether, if it's so easy a caveman can do it.

[Qzzrbl]

Well fuck it then, let's just get rid of the value skill altogether, if it's so easy a caveman can do it.

I'm sure you know well that the value skill covers much more than just an item's weight.

Approximating weight is so easy a caveman can do it.... 'Cause I'm pretty positive cavemen even did it.

But accurately figuring where something's from/what it might be used for/how much it's worth/who made it/etc./etc./etc./, are the things I'd bet the value was even made a skill for to begin with.

[Salt Merchant]

Anyone with the value skill can see how much an item weighs before buying it.
This is a class-based system.  Not knowing exactly how much your shit weighs is one of the penalties you incur for picking a class and subclass without the value skill.  It makes JUST as much sense as any other class's lack of ability in any other skill...which admittedly is not much, but that's the way the game is, and it's not going to be changed...not even in 2.Arm.

What doesn't make sense is having to buy a bone hauberk and a bone breastplate to realize that the breastplate weighs over twice what the hauberk does.

Some things should just be obvious.

Or do you want to make boot-lace-tying an elusive skill too that can only be performed by the boot-lace-tying guild/subguild, to create guild differentiation and dependence? So that nobody can put on a pair of boots without this skill or the assistance of someone who has it?

[jstorrie]

Oh, please. Now you're putting words in our mouths.

I'm sure it would be fine if tailors got boot-lacing too.

[Qzzrbl]

Oh, please. Now you're putting words in our mouths.

I'm sure it would be fine if tailors got boot-lacing too.

The first half of his post is meaningful, at least. -shrug-

[Case]

What I recommend is just giving yourself a very large margin before the category jump.

Not applicable in regards to elves.

As much as I agree that a PC's ability to gauge weights should be better, saying that this is not applicable to elves is ridiculous. I've had elves in the worst scenario for this kind of thing and didn't find it difficult at all to balance anything. Anecdotal, sure, but if you don't actually take the time to experiment, you won't be able to realise this.

Actual content: the ability to determine differences in weights is a power relationship. The best gaugers will be able to determine minute weight differences between light objects. The heavier the object, the more difficult this becomes to do accurately. Shouldn't be too tough to code either, since it's a mathetical relationship. Even so, not being able to do things 'perfectly' or in maximal ways without outside help is appealing to some players, reality or not.

[Kiara]

I'm not saying it's impossible to balance.

My point is that the margin between easily manageable and manageable is marginal at best for an elf, therefore jstorrie's proposition is not applicable. For elves, not other playable races.

I didn't explain myself clearly enough, sorry.

[Anaiah]

It's gonna have a little 'edited' message on the first post.

I had to go in and fix the title of the thread, it was eating me alive.

Please continue.

[Cutthroat]

People w/o the value skill get two inaccurate estimates when they use it: an inaccurate estimate of the value of the item in coins and an inaccurate estimate of the weight of the item in stones.

It makes absolutely no sense that these same estimates aren't viewable by everyone in shops as well. Okay, it only makes sense if all the shopkeepers in the game do not let you touch the stuff you're buying and it's all behind the counter. We already get so much information that would likely involve touching, to some extent, that leaving weight out of the picture just seems really unlikely.

People with the value skill should get more accurate estimates of these, plus the other nifty information they get.

This in no way threatens the usefulness of people with the value skill. It just gives those without the value skill the ability to make their crappy estimates in shops as well as on things in their inventory.

[Salt Merchant]

It was meant as a parallel example to highlight the absurdity of defending the value command as it stands.

In my opinion, value should provide a cost estimate of an item. Assess should provide a physical assessment (weight, how much it could contain, condition, etc.).

[Synthesis]

People w/o the value skill get two inaccurate estimates when they use it: an inaccurate estimate of the value of the item in coins and an inaccurate estimate of the weight of the item in stones.

It makes absolutely no sense that these same estimates aren't viewable by everyone in shops as well. Okay, it only makes sense if all the shopkeepers in the game do not let you touch the stuff you're buying and it's all behind the counter. We already get so much information that would likely involve touching, to some extent, that leaving weight out of the picture just seems really unlikely.

People with the value skill should get more accurate estimates of these, plus the other nifty information they get.

This in no way threatens the usefulness of people with the value skill. It just gives those without the value skill the ability to make their crappy estimates in shops as well as on things in their inventory.

See, now that's an acceptable solution.

[Qzzrbl]

People w/o the value skill get two inaccurate estimates when they use it: an inaccurate estimate of the value of the item in coins and an inaccurate estimate of the weight of the item in stones.

It makes absolutely no sense that these same estimates aren't viewable by everyone in shops as well. Okay, it only makes sense if all the shopkeepers in the game do not let you touch the stuff you're buying and it's all behind the counter. We already get so much information that would likely involve touching, to some extent, that leaving weight out of the picture just seems really unlikely.

People with the value skill should get more accurate estimates of these, plus the other nifty information they get.

This in no way threatens the usefulness of people with the value skill. It just gives those without the value skill the ability to make their crappy estimates in shops as well as on things in their inventory.

See, now that's an acceptable solution.

That's what I've beeen suggesting this entire time. x-X

[Synthesis]

Well maybe you helped changed my fucking mind.  Isn't that the point of arguing?

[Qzzrbl]

No need to get testy. 

[Twilight]

May have to do with the saving of the inaccurate values when you actually use the value skill on something, as opposed to getting values when you list.  I haven't had the value skill in awhile, so not sure they save like actual use of the skill does (from what I have read, recent change).  Thus, like on containers, you would be able to use it multiple times on the same object and figure out what the true value was most likely.