Not so random Armageddon Thoughts about Guild sniffin'

[NOFUN]

The problem with guild sniffing too hard is you might be outting a magicker in tuluk or a sorcerer, which is fine to do ICly.. but if you figure out someone isn't a ranger/warrior/burgler/pickpocket from there lack of coded skills then that might be a bit of a problem.

[Dar]

It is actually exactly other way around. If you're guild sniffing to oust someone as a magicker. I dont think this is very kosher. I mean ... seriously, cant a magicker be a hunter? Cant a magicker be a pick pocket? Considering such things as manifesting magicks in later age, it is very possible that a magicker used to be any type of the guilds before being a magicker. The code doesnt really make it possible, but that shouldnt matter.

It is exaclty "those" guilds (warrior ,ranger, assassin, pickpocket, burglar, merchant) that are worth being guild sniffed by leader roles. When you only have 4-6 spots in your clan. You cant afford to bring in someone who is useless or whom you already have. A clan could use 1 burglar, but 2nd burglar is near useless except maybe if the first one is rare.

I rarely allow myself to get 'that' nitpicky. Burglar, assassins, whatever. You can stab? Stabbity stab stab? Great. But if I'm working hard on creating some elite group of warriors and rangers, who will rely on each other to be able to defeat enemies that outnumber them 3 to 1. I wont really be a happy camper if in my team of 4-6, I'll end up with 2 pickpockets.

[BlackMagic0]

It is exaclty "those" guilds (warrior ,ranger, assassin, pickpocket, burglar, merchant) that are worth being guild sniffed by leader roles. When you only have 4-6 spots in your clan. You cant afford to bring in someone who is useless or whom you already have. A clan could use 1 burglar, but 2nd burglar is near useless except maybe if the first one is rare.

I rarely allow myself to get 'that' nitpicky. Burglar, assassins, whatever. You can stab? Stabbity stab stab? Great. But if I'm working hard on creating some elite group of warriors and rangers, who will rely on each other to be able to defeat enemies that outnumber them 3 to 1. I wont really be a happy camper if in my team of 4-6, I'll end up with 2 pickpockets.

The issue with this is someone's character is not defined by their list of skills/guild. They can do what they want, and where they want.
This is NOT kosher in my book to guild sniff someone since YOU want a different SET OF SKILLS.

This has been stated many times a PC's guild is not what they are. I can make a burglar who is actually a hunter. I can make a ranger who wants to steal for a living.

[NOFUN]

It is actually exactly other way around. If you're guild sniffing to oust someone as a magicker. I dont think this is very kosher. I mean ... seriously, cant a magicker be a hunter? Cant a magicker be a pick pocket? Considering such things as manifesting magicks in later age, it is very possible that a magicker used to be any type of the guilds before being a magicker. The code doesnt really make it possible, but that shouldnt matter.

It is exaclty "those" guilds (warrior ,ranger, assassin, pickpocket, burglar, merchant) that are worth being guild sniffed by leader roles. When you only have 4-6 spots in your clan. You cant afford to bring in someone who is useless or whom you already have. A clan could use 1 burglar, but 2nd burglar is near useless except maybe if the first one is rare.

I rarely allow myself to get 'that' nitpicky. Burglar, assassins, whatever. You can stab? Stabbity stab stab? Great. But if I'm working hard on creating some elite group of warriors and rangers, who will rely on each other to be able to defeat enemies that outnumber them 3 to 1. I wont really be a happy camper if in my team of 4-6, I'll end up with 2 pickpockets.

Exactly what I'm saying. If you find that a pc is unable to disarm/steal/forage for food/craft a dozen things then it becomes fairly obvious OOCLY that the pc isn't a mundane. Thankfully, that's what we have sub-guilds for.

[Dar]

It is exaclty "those" guilds (warrior ,ranger, assassin, pickpocket, burglar, merchant) that are worth being guild sniffed by leader roles. When you only have 4-6 spots in your clan. You cant afford to bring in someone who is useless or whom you already have. A clan could use 1 burglar, but 2nd burglar is near useless except maybe if the first one is rare.

I rarely allow myself to get 'that' nitpicky. Burglar, assassins, whatever. You can stab? Stabbity stab stab? Great. But if I'm working hard on creating some elite group of warriors and rangers, who will rely on each other to be able to defeat enemies that outnumber them 3 to 1. I wont really be a happy camper if in my team of 4-6, I'll end up with 2 pickpockets.

The issue with this is someone's character is not defined by their list of skills/guild. They can do what they want, and where they want.
This is NOT kosher in my book to guild sniff someone since YOU want a different SET OF SKILLS.

This has been stated many times a PC's guild is not what they are. I can make a burglar who is actually a hunter. I can make a ranger who wants to steal for a living.

Why would my leader character care what you want? I just want somebody who "can" track down a prey. Who "can" skin a creature without getting everything 'except' what's needed. Who 'can' survive 15 spiders for a few minutes. Hey, if you can do that without being the appropriate guild, great, fine. But if you make me waste a month thinking you can and then find out you cant. Expect some interesting scene next morning.

[Marshmellow]

Because in the interview, they told you what they do.  Hire them or don't.  Don't guild sniff so that you know what OTHER skills they have (or don't have) so that you can hire them to do something other than what do.  Someone says they're a grebber and can navigate?  Great.  Don't ask if they can also do X and Y so that you know whether the person is a ranger or not so that you'll know what other skills they have... because, and this is key, your character doesn't know what guilds get what skills.  You do.  Having your character determine whether or not to hire this person after you've guild-sniffed them?  Yeah, that's meta-gaming.

[Bebop]

At your table, the lithe, well-dressed woman says, in sirihish:
     "So, what is it you'd like to do?"

At your table, you say, in sirihish:
     "I'd like to maintain a reasonable standard of living and perhaps raise a family, with children who will support me into my twilight years, where I'll eventually die quietly and peacefully, surrounded by loved ones."

You notice:  The lithe, well-dressed woman's too-bright smile fades somewhat.

Feeling disappointed, the lithe, well-dressed woman thinks:
     "*Another* rogue 'gicker or mindbender?"

You think:
     "How the...!?"

Sooo true!  Folks, don't ask questions if you're not interested in hearing answers.

Agreed times two.  People always think the worst of those evasive about giving out hints to their coded abilities.

[Dar]

I "love" fooling with guild sniffers though. I remember playing a Youth ranger who ended up being an aide. So many people tried to figure out who he was. Some thought he was a pickpocket or burglar. A lot of people for some reason assumed he was rinthi. In the end, he ended up having his guild as Con Artist. Fun times .

[Gunnerblaster]

To avoid people from trying to "sniff" out my guild, I use skills - Even if I don't codedly have them. Good skills include, but are not limited to: Scan, Disarm, Bash, Guard, Rescue, etc.

[SMuz]

To avoid people from trying to "sniff" out my guild, I use skills - Even if I don't codedly have them. Good skills include, but are not limited to: Scan, Disarm, Bash, Guard, Rescue, etc.

Guard is a dead giveaway that you are (not) a warrior. That's sort of how some people sniffed out my militia pickpocket. Rescue too, as many characters figure out how to use rescue after a bit of training. If you want to 'fake it' as a warrior, pick the guard subguild, and you'll be all set.

The others aren't so bad, as they fail so much, even for skilled people.

[Gunnerblaster]

To avoid people from trying to "sniff" out my guild, I use skills - Even if I don't codedly have them. Good skills include, but are not limited to: Scan, Disarm, Bash, Guard, Rescue, etc.

Guard is a dead giveaway that you are (not) a warrior. That's sort of how some people sniffed out my militia pickpocket. Rescue too, as many characters figure out how to use rescue after a bit of training. If you want to 'fake it' as a warrior, pick the guard subguild, and you'll be all set.

The others aren't so bad, as they fail so much, even for skilled people.

How is Skill_Guard a dead giveaway? And Skill_Rescue is a pretty fail-tastic skill. Even the guilds that get it and/or start with it have it pretty low, starting off.

In all honesty, it's pretty easy to pass as another guild. Subguilds help a lot to that effect.

[SMuz]

Well, a lot of warriors start of with rather good guard skill. I mean sure, you can guard people and have the echo, but if people see you failing a lot (like during sparring), it's pretty clear the character isn't a warrior.

Of course, you could always apply to staff for the skill if you're dedicated enough. Just get someone to train you, spend a few RL hours on the roleplay spread out over a few days (even pay a PC skilled character to roleplay teaching you how to use a skill), wait a few RL weeks for staff to approve it, and you'll be able to pass for a certain guild.

Also, the 'kick' skill is nice for this too, since it fails so much even on experienced characters. And characters are still capable of using weapons that they don't have as a class skill. I've had a pickpocket with axes beat up a warrior during sparring. They'll still improve in it given time. If you log in every RL day, you'll be better than that warrior who spars once a RL week, which really messes with people's heads.

[Dakota]

Not gonna say why, as its kinda obv, but Thug is a -great- guild for throwing ppl off in a load of different ways.

[Whiran Luck]

Guild sniffing is the pits and people and leaders shouldn't and have no need of doing it. Not to figure out what guild someone is, not to fill 'quotas'.

As has been said before, there are tools at a leader's disposal to deal with quotas, and furthermore, this isn't a game you 'win' by getting the proper number of proper guilds under your belt. First off, leaders should be asking pointed questions as to what they need. Need a crafter? If interviewing a potential crafter ask if they can craft whatever you need crafted. If you need a bodyguard? Ask if they can fight or have any interest in doing so. If they're a hunter? Ask if they can hunt. Looking for an aide? See if they can deal with people and be a servant. Ask what their experience is, where they see themselves. If the answers to the above questions do not satisfy your leader character, then don't hire them, it's simple.

Leader looking for more seasoned fighters? Well, that's what the Byn is for. Ask around as to who the best in their group is. Offer them a lucrative deal and hire them. Need hunters? Check around with indy hunters of repute. Same deal with crafters. Offer them a lucrative deal to work with you. Talk to your underlings. See if they can refer you to one of their friends who might be able to do the job you need done.

The above can pretty much be applied to most situations. If in doubt, get them to perform some tasks. Someone said before in the thread, if they need someone who can bring in hides, it shouldn't matter what 'guild' they are. If they're able to bring in the number of hides you want by whatever means, then there you go.

Now, firing. If you hire someone and they aren't performing to what you think they should be doing, whether it's just being lazy or they don't have the skills they said they did -fire them-. This should be pretty apparent in a few weeks of playing and/or requesting reports from their superiors or even them. If they can't account for what they're doing when they aren't doing what you hired them for, give them the boot.

Death: the great equalizer. So you filled your quota of 6 fighters/hunters and it turns out you have 2 in your group who are below par. Well, if you hired them to fight, then fight. If they can't hack fighting and one or both die, then you now have 2 more slots you can fill. Better luck choosing a pair of people who can fight!

Seriously, guild sniffing is poor play. There's no reason behind it, even quotas aren't a reason. Finding out if someone can do what you're hiring them to do before you hire them is fine, but trying to figure out what guild they are just lends to poor play, and really, you won't win the game doing it so why bother?

*eta: Also, don't worry about not being able to do some things. You really don't need every single guild to do everything. You can hire on support if you need or even make deals with other people. This promotes groups working together to fill holes in what they need to have done. The best leaders hire characters, not guilds.