Not so Random thoughts about footpads

[boog]

I can't believe there's a whole thread and heated debate about some footpads.

[AmandaGreathouse]

I gotta agree with the crowd who thinks that people wearing them are sneaky.

It's the difference in seeing someone in hunting gear carrying a rifle, or seeing some random person carrying, say, a pistol with a silencer (compresser, actually, isn't it?) on it. And that suspicion of the second person, it's going to increase tenfold if they're wearing all black and a ski mask. But even without those lovely accessories, it looks suspicious.

Edit to add: I used that particular analogy because it apparently says right in the mdesc that the soles are purposefully made to make as little noise as possible. Which doesn't seem like it would be the slightest concern of your average commoner.

[Cutthroat]

Be inconspicuous.

If you're wearing footpads, it's just like you're wearing a mask with your hood up, or a full suit of dark clothes in the hot weather for no apparent reason, or a grappling rope and climbing gloves. You're not inconspicuous. You can't depend on the idea that no one will really know what these footpads are, because someone eventually will know what they are, and unless your PC is willing to risk getting caught by, say, another thief, or ex-thief, or a soldier with experienced knowledge in this equipment, your PC will put his important equipment away when he's sipping ale in the Gaj. Your sneaky PC is far better off keeping a "normal' suit of clothing and a suit for his night job, to change between one and the other.

[Dan]

I gotta agree with the crowd who thinks that people wearing them are sneaky.

It's the difference in seeing someone in hunting gear carrying a rifle, or seeing some random person carrying, say, a pistol with a silencer (compresser, actually, isn't it?) on it. And that suspicion of the second person, it's going to increase tenfold if they're wearing all black and a ski mask. But even without those lovely accessories, it looks suspicious.

Edit to add: I used that particular analogy because it apparently says right in the mdesc that the soles are purposefully made to make as little noise as possible. Which doesn't seem like it would be the slightest concern of your average commoner.

Sound supressor. It only deadens the sound and dulls it some, makes it harder to discern the weapon reports location. Contrary to popular Hollywood examples, it does -not- silence your weapon. Not to be confused with a compensator that keeps the muzzle down and disperses the muzzle flash, which is standard on just about every military style carbine. [/derail]

As for sneaky foot wear, I generally consider it a tool of the trade, and the actual use of which might -not- be known by those who aren't sneaky themselves. I think if your not a sneak you might not even realize what they are for, just see them as soft shoes/boots. If you are a sneaky type and see someone wearing them you could probably assume that the person is on a job or something.

[Gunnerblaster]

Maybe the word "footpad" should be replaced? I think it's the word that draws more attention then the actual description.

[Spoon]

How about 'sneakers'?

[Rotten]

Allow me to renew this discussion : footpads are shoes with a soft, flexible sole.  The uses are endless, because it gets you closer to the control of bare feet without the hassle of them, you know, bleeding.

They're also generally cheaper/easier to make, which is why peasants might (and do, in this game) wear them.

[jriley]

Here's a question to consider. If instead of "footpad" we had "soft-leathered boot" or "sleek, furred moccasin" or "supple-soled hide sandal" would anyone be able to justify either of the above? If anyone was wearing these around in real life, would it be justified?

No, but that's exactly my point.  Wearing a pair of slippers, for example, would provide you with 90% of the stealth benefit of wearing foot-pads while only looking 10% as conspicuous. 

Look at it this way -- if you were walking past my house, wearing a pair of slippers, I'd probably think you looked odd, but if I brought the subject up to you and you claimed that it was "laundry day" and that your other pair of tennis shoes are in the wash, I'd probably accept your explanation, even if I thought you were a bit odd.  But if you tried the same thing wearing footpads, I doubt that there is anything you could say to me to cover up the fact that you're acting shady, for no other reason than the fact that you're wearing footpads.

Or look at it this way -- there are two types of stealth in the game mechanics of Armageddon -- stealth that is based upon avoiding perceptual detection, and stealth that based upon blending into a crowd.  If your character is attempting to blend into the crowd at a crowded bar, wearing ninja-shoes are counterproductive.  At this point you're just twinking if you're trying to sneak around town in a pair of ninja-shoes. 

Pretty easy solution: just take the damn things off when you're not 'working.'

My assassins do not habitually wander around in a sinister hooded cloak and footpads. Down at the bar, they dress just like everyone else.

Thanks, yeah.  That's kind of what I'm getting at.  If you must wear footpads while your character is doing a burglary or a hit job, at least take them off when you're done the job.

[Jingo]

Here's a question to consider. If instead of "footpad" we had "soft-leathered boot" or "sleek, furred moccasin" or "supple-soled hide sandal" would anyone be able to justify either of the above? If anyone was wearing these around in real life, would it be justified?

No, but that's exactly my point.  Wearing a pair of slippers, for example, would provide you with 90% of the stealth benefit of wearing foot-pads while only looking 10% as conspicuous.  

Look at it this way -- if you were walking past my house, wearing a pair of slippers, I'd probably think you looked odd, but if I brought the subject up to you and you claimed that it was "laundry day" and that your other pair of tennis shoes are in the wash, I'd probably accept your explanation, even if I thought you were a bit odd.  But if you tried the same thing wearing footpads, I doubt that there is anything you could say to me to cover up the fact that you're acting shady, for no other reason than the fact that you're wearing footpads.

I would expect that a fictional, non-existent item would raise a few brows when worn on the feet. But even if there was, the only reason you would recognize them as "footpads" is if it's sdesc was written on it.

But in real life I would wear something like these. http://martialartsmart.com/a90-sw.html Maybe they are not walking shoes, but it would be laughable if anyone accused me of being a sneak for wearing them.

a sinister hooded cloak

I assume we are talking about the ubiquitous "dark hooded cloak"? I can make an even better argument with that one. If only because the ldesc actually says that it can easily blend in a crowd, which assumes that it's common wear.

But since everyone knows that it gives a stealth bonus, it's easy to justify fingering them as a sneak.

Edit: changed the link

[Qzzrbl]

::Edit::

All clear-- thanks Jingo.

[Spice Spice Baby]

But since everyone knows that it gives a stealth bonus, it's easy to justify fingering them as a sneak.

1. I did not know that. Thanks.

2. Maybe they assume so because almost every unsavoury NPC in the game wears them.

[AmandaGreathouse]

2. Maybe they assume so because almost every unsavoury NPC in the game wears them.

This would be the reason why I do, personally.

And the same with footpads. The only npcs you see wearing them are often also 'unsavoury'. Not saying that it means you'll elf somebody's shit, but I think it's fair to assume people might avoid you if you pointedly dress like that.

[Jingo]

2. Maybe they assume so because almost every unsavoury NPC in the game wears them.

This would be the reason why I do, personally.

And the same with footpads. The only npcs you see wearing them are often also 'unsavoury'. Not saying that it means you'll elf somebody's shit, but I think it's fair to assume people might avoid you if you pointedly dress like that.

Should we assume that vnpcs never wear hooded cloaks of dark sandcloth also? Just because the represented (savory) population doesn't wear them, doesn't mean that nobody does.

I had a character chased around by a militia once for wearing one of those cloaks. Which really should not make any sense ICly.

[Qzzrbl]

Wearing footpads around everywhere is like wearing climbing boots or riding gloves everywhere....


Wearing climbing boots = People think you climb regularly.

Wearing riding gloves = People think you ride alot.

Wearing footpads = People think you sneak regularly.

[spawnloser]

Should we assume that vnpcs never wear hooded cloaks of dark sandcloth also? Just because the represented (savory) population doesn't wear them, doesn't mean that nobody does.

I had a character chased around by a militia once for wearing one of those cloaks. Which really should not make any sense ICly.

[list=1]

• It should NOT be assumed that people don't wear similar cloaks.
• The savory population isn't from the Rinth, where this relatively low-quality piece of gear comes from, so actually, wearing one of these is like saying you're from the Rinth to those people that would know.  This should mean you can't be trusted though doesn't mean you've committed a crime.
• I think PC militia person may have been abusing power to harass at this point.  They are not police but soldiers and it isn't their job to harass people randomly.  That's the Templars' jobs.  This should have been filed as a player complaint.

[AmandaGreathouse]

Should we assume that vnpcs never wear hooded cloaks of dark sandcloth also? Just because the represented (savory) population doesn't wear them, doesn't mean that nobody does.

I had a character chased around by a militia once for wearing one of those cloaks. Which really should not make any sense ICly.

• It should NOT be assumed that people don't wear similar cloaks.
• The savory population isn't from the Rinth, where this relatively low-quality piece of gear comes from, so actually, wearing one of these is like saying you're from the Rinth to those people that would know.  This should mean you can't be trusted though doesn't mean you've committed a crime.
• I think PC militia person may have been abusing power to harass at this point.  They are not police but soldiers and it isn't their job to harass people randomly.  That's the Templars' jobs.  This should have been filed as a player complaint.

First off, what spawnloser said. Add in: That seems like rather faulty logic. That's a very specific cut and color of sandcloth, so yes, I imagine that anyone who IS wary of that specific cut and color of sandcloth might react in a negative fashion to it (or positive, if it's IC for their character, depending, naturally.), but the logic that something which is represented in a very specific demographic of npcs and no other would be that way just.. what, randomly? Are you telling me that just because it's not demonstrated on a single npc outside of that group, it pretty much doesn't mean anything? FWIW, footpads are done the same. Much like you don't see a lot of nonfighting type npcs wearing head to toe armor everywhere,or a lot of fighting type commoner npcs wearing silk and metal rings. Yes the representation of npcs in the world is only a small sliver when compared to the VNPCs, but it's a rather purposeful representation. The ones who do reflect X or Y, reflect it pretty well, and supposing that the VNPC population is pretty much contradictory of what IS represented by NPCS that pretty much only staff have final say on going in or not... seems a bit odd to me.[/list]

[spawnloser]

I meant nothing about cut and color, only quality of the cloak after coming from the Rinth.  It's slum clothing, not something slightly above slum clothing.

[AmandaGreathouse]

I didn't mean to imply that you did. I was largely just agreeing with your points, then adding my own on later on in my post. I understand that that's what you meant. I was giving what I viewed as another reason why it might be conspicuous.

[Nahara]

If dark hooded cloaks are available outside the Rinth by, say, folks selling them to clothing vendors or such, I'll be sure to keep an eye out for them as a potential cheap and not inherently awful-looking cloak then. Of course, it will probably turn out they can't be closed and don't have pockets and have no internal jet engine, so I'll be sad. My cloaks must have as many random features as possible.

Perhaps I will take up wearing footpads as slippers, and tell a story of how I acquired them ... knowing how folks perceive matters could make playing a character who doesn't all the more amusing.  

[spicemustflow]

But since everyone knows that it gives a stealth bonus, it's easy to justify fingering them as a sneak.

1. I did not know that. Thanks.

Yeah, me neither. I thought it's just a piece of shit cloak made from cheap, itchy cloth.

[Salt Merchant]

I'm almost ready to play an elf. For the first time. Ever.

Footpads, yeah.

[spawnloser]

But since everyone knows that it gives a stealth bonus, it's easy to justify fingering them as a sneak.

1. I did not know that. Thanks.

Yeah, me neither. I thought it's just a piece of shit cloak made from cheap, itchy cloth.

I wouldn't make this assumption, people.

[RogueGunslinger]

Assumption that it does, or doesn't offer benifits?

How would someone even know unless it's described as such?

[spawnloser]

Heh, I could see how that, from how the quotes go, could be confusing.  I wouldn't assume either way, actually, that it does or doesn't give a bonus.  If it gives a bonus, I'd maintain that you will have a very difficult time verifying that it does and there's no 'identify' or 'legend lore' spell/skill/ability that determines all the effects of something to our mere mortals.  Unless you're staff, you don't know, and with assumption is the mother of all fuck-ups, it's not anything I could recommend to anyone about anything.