Fixing Pickpocket in one simple step

[number13]

As it stands, it's easier (and safer in lawful areas, especially at night) to kill than to pick pockets.  That's sort of ass backwards.    The most dangerous places to pick pockets in this MUD tend to be the most populated, which is also ass backwards, compared to how pick pockets actually operate.

I was thinking about how steal works in other MUDs, and one of the advantages normally is that it will not automatically summon a horde of wtfpwn soldiers on failure. Here's the solution: for the pickpocket guild (not the thief subclass or burglar) even untrained steal should almost never alert the victim, except for a stray 1 out of 100 chance.  When stealing would result in the victim noticing, the pickpocket instead receives a message like, "You are nearly detected, and pull back."

Perhaps a watched pickpocket would lose this advantage, providing for a greater advantage to working with a partner.

[Synthesis]

Pickpockets aren't broken.  You obviously just haven't figured out how to play them.

The only reason I don't play them much is [IC Info Redacted by Oleupata]...okay, because they tend to get boring very quickly.

[jstorrie]

The steal skill is already great for pickpockets, even in 'dangerously populated' areas. It does take a bit of grinding, but many skills do.

My issue with pickpockets is their wacky weapon skill list. What they get and don't get there isn't mentioned in the help files, so I won't get specific, but I imagine quite a few people think the same skill is missing as I do. If their weapon skills were changed, I think they'd be entirely fine, on par with warriors and burglars if not assassins and rangers.

[number13]

Pickpockets aren't broken.  You obviously just haven't figured out how to play them.

I know what needs to be done to get the skill up.  I'm not going to log on to do that sort of thing, so it's broken from my perspective.  Every other mundane class can 'grind' via plying their trade in a (somewhat) reasonable fashion.  Pickpockets have to resort to hours of practice before they are qualified to be pick pockets.

[Synthesis]

Pickpockets aren't broken.  You obviously just haven't figured out how to play them.

I know what needs to be done to get the skill up.  I'm not going to log on to do that sort of thing, so it's broken from my perspective.  Every other mundane class can 'grind' via plying their trade in a (somewhat) reasonable fashion.  Pickpockets have to resort to hours of practice before they are qualified to ply their trade in any fashion.

Every class has to grind a little. Pickpockets? Really easy.  All of their primary skills can be practiced with absolutely zero risk.

No, seriously: zero risk. Nada. Zip. Zero.  If you get caught as a pickpocket, it's because you got lazy or impatient.

[number13]

lazy or impatient.

Yes.  The toll of doing something entirely mindless for 10 to 20 hours is too much for me.

[jstorrie]

I take it you don't play assassins or merchants, then.

[Qzzrbl]

I take it you don't play assassins or merchants, then.

...Or warriors, burglars, rangers.....

[number13]

I take it you don't play assassins or merchants, then.

...Or warriors, burglars, rangers.....

Not, I guess I don't really play much at all anymore.  But all of those classes, one can learn skills by doing. Even if the progression is far too slow and a bit clumsy in the beginning, you can actually go out and be a warrior or a merchant or a ranger day 1.  Merchant and assassin in particular, their prime skills you only learn by doing.  Pickpocket is more like the magicker classes, in that game rewards you for holing up in a cave and practicing for X hours before emerging, rather than be out in the streets picking pockets.

[jstorrie]

I'd argue you can go out and be a pickpocket with low skills far more successfully than you can assassinate with low assassin skills.

[Spoon]

I'd argue you can go out and be a pickpocket with low skills far more successfully than you can assassinate with low assassin skills.

In my experience I've had pickpockets never end up in jail due to the crim-code. That was back when mobs ignored sneak and hide even, where if you failed, running and holing up somwhere was the only option. Pickpockets enjoy a huge amout of freedom now compared to the old days. The way I've kept my pickpockets alive is through being cautious and subtle. I personally think most people having difficulties playing a pickpocket are going about it the wrong way. There's a lot in the OP's post that either isn't true, or already is true in the right circumstances. Play more pickpockets and find out! Pickpockets have a really killer set of skills, many of which work in harmony.

[Sinna]

Griind this, grind that - on par with - what is the BS?

First - guilds are not on par with other guilds - balance was not part of the plan.

Secondly - while characters often do try to improve their skills why are we talking as though building up the skills on a character is the main focus?

Play the shitty pick pocket, the half-assed warrior, the inept mage.  Geez.

If your character lives awhile, and you play them like they are alive, they will get better.  It's not wrong to improve skills, of course, but with all these "grind this/that" threads it seems like we're loosing focus.

If you need a skilled pickpocket and "want to avoid the grind" (instead of having the grind be the story of your character's life) special app him.

[UnderSeven]

There is an assumption here I think the original poster might of missed.

The most prevelent skills I would argue are combat skills, and sure you can practice them risk free . . . If you join a clan and have friends who will let you practice on.  Same thing for pickpocket.  Most groups see the value in the skill for someone to have and will have you covertly train it.  If you don't have friends it is more dangerous, but if you don't have friends warriosr more or less have to train on hunting creatures and a stray baddie or a lucky not so baddie can absolutely kill them.

I agree that crowded areas should make it harder to catch a pick pocket. But that is already taken into account with sneak and hide, skills that make you virtually invisible and uncatchable unless someone has a high enough scan or magick and even then the sitaution is in favor of the sneak/hider. 

I don't agree that pickpocket is broken.

[Greve]

.

[Ghost]

If some items below certain sizes (rings, earrings) could be stealable even when worn (for a master steal skill), it would be realistic.

Also, being able to open/close containers would fix the pickpockets.

[jhunter]

Personally I think that pickpockets and burglars should be combined into one "thief" guild. Then, if you want to play a pc that steals shit, you have many different options, all of which you can become a master at. As it is, if I want to play a thief-type pc, I play burglars anyway.
Or we could maybe take it even a step further and combine, pickpocket, burglar, and assassin into an all purpose "rogue" guild. I wouldn't see it being overpowered at all, it would basically be the "ranger" of the city environment.

[X-D]

To that I actually agree.

[BlackMagic0]

Personally I think that pickpockets and burglars should be combined into one "thief" guild. Then, if you want to play a pc that steals shit, you have many different options, all of which you can become a master at. As it is, if I want to play a thief-type pc, I play burglars anyway.
Or we could maybe take it even a step further and combine, pickpocket, burglar, and assassin into an all purpose "rogue" guild. I wouldn't see it being overpowered at all, it would basically be the "ranger" of the city environment.

This was always my vote.
Burglar/Pick pocket = Thief guild.


To discuss if they should be made into a Thief guild, why, and any changes should take place for the guild if it is done. Early morning discussions!
http://www.zalanthas.org/gdb/index.php/topic,38606.0.html

[Saellyn]

Why should pickpockets get good weapon skills? Are we trying to make them thieving warriors? I've gotten good amounts of coin ripped off my char before because I forgot to close a pack, or I had stuff in my inv. EVERYBODY does that at some point. I don't make -use- of pickpocket guilds, myself, but to say it's a glaringly stupid guild choice is just ignorance on your own part. I would venture to say an assassin is a glaringly stupid skill group because, if he gets spotted before he executes that -perfect- backstab against a warrior that's been training his abilities as long as the assassin has been training his, guess what's gonna happen to that assassin? He'll probably get ganked. Hard.

So, what can you do? Pickpockets are for people who want -challenge-, and if you pick it as a character guild off the bat, you're going to be sorely disappointed with how difficult your life has just become.  You just have to get used to the unperks of being a pickpocket, and make use of the abilities they do have to the best that you can.  Burglary and picking pockets are two very different things, with two different goals.  Burglars would be the sorts of people to lift valuable items off of competitors, not pickpockets. So play a burglar next time.

And in that rant, I think I might have lost my point entirely. So... whatever. Take from that what you will.

[perfecto]

To: Saellyn

        That was beautifuly spoken, everything you said was valid and accurate.  Believe me or not I've been playing this game for about fifteen years now and I remember a pickpocket I had about a decade ago.  I was a horder, of all things stolen, especialy weapons..  when they finaly caught me they couldn't believe it was one guy who had everybodies stuff.  They flipped out,(obviously) threw me in jail and then dirrectly off to the arena.. well the jail gaurd couldn't carry all the weapons I had on me so they threw me in there armed to the teeth! I even had explosives on me! (I think I blew myself up a little) it was probably one of the best shows I've ever put on and one of my favourite deaths for sure.   

Although nobody likes to die; I've kept coming back over the years, I hope you all do too.. 

P.S. Sorry if I stole you shit.

[Saellyn]

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