Economy

[musashi]

I can't help but feel a bit disappointed. From my limited perspective as a player, it seems like the "tweaks" to the economy that were made as a result of this thread amounted to raising the expense of some stuff, while scaling back on the amount of money that could be made selling some other stuff ... ... even though I had thought it was established that doing that only further widened the gap between casual and high play time players' wealth.

I guess we'll all be back here in another month or so, to have the exact same discussion all over again. 
See you guys there.

[AmandaGreathouse]

I can't help but feel a bit disappointed. From my limited perspective as a player, it seems like the "tweaks" to the economy that were made as a result of this thread amounted to raising the expense of some stuff, while scaling back on the amount of money that could be made selling some other stuff ... ... even though I had thought it was established that doing that only further widened the gap between casual and high play time players' wealth.

I guess we'll all be back here in another month or so, to have the exact same discussion all over again. 
See you guys there.

Um... outside increasing pay for clanned pcs (which, if that was what was wanted, it should have been stated outright), I can't think of too many other ways to change things, I don't understand what you expected? People were claiming that other people had too much money so staff made it harder to get that money, it would seem.

Uh.. maybe you could explain what you were hoping for vs what happened?

[Sinna]

I can't help but feel a bit disappointed. From my limited perspective as a player, it seems like the "tweaks" to the economy that were made as a result of this thread amounted to raising the expense of some stuff, while scaling back on the amount of money that could be made selling some other stuff ... ... even though I had thought it was established that doing that only further widened the gap between casual and high play time players' wealth.

I guess we'll all be back here in another month or so, to have the exact same discussion all over again. 
See you guys there.

I sorta agree.  I, personally, was really excited about the "no bank" idea.  I think my next app will be for a robin hood type character gunning for syth's character.  =)

[Synthesis]

I can't help but feel a bit disappointed. From my limited perspective as a player, it seems like the "tweaks" to the economy that were made as a result of this thread amounted to raising the expense of some stuff, while scaling back on the amount of money that could be made selling some other stuff ... ... even though I had thought it was established that doing that only further widened the gap between casual and high play time players' wealth.

I guess we'll all be back here in another month or so, to have the exact same discussion all over again. 
See you guys there.

I sorta agree.  I, personally, was really excited about the "no bank" idea.  I think my next app will be for a robin hood type character gunning for syth's character.  =)

How do you know my character isn't a Robin Hood?

[Sinna]

I can't help but feel a bit disappointed. From my limited perspective as a player, it seems like the "tweaks" to the economy that were made as a result of this thread amounted to raising the expense of some stuff, while scaling back on the amount of money that could be made selling some other stuff ... ... even though I had thought it was established that doing that only further widened the gap between casual and high play time players' wealth.

I guess we'll all be back here in another month or so, to have the exact same discussion all over again. 
See you guys there.

I sorta agree.  I, personally, was really excited about the "no bank" idea.  I think my next app will be for a robin hood type character gunning for syth's character.  =)

How do you know my character isn't a Robin Hood?

'cause mine is!  =)

[Agent_137]

musashi,

This fix makes it harder for indies to make a lot of cash off some over valued items.

So it does address the clan vs indie problem which was the OP's original gripe.

The sid gap between those who play a lot and those who don't will always exist. Those who work more make more. Those who are logged in more have more chance to work. it sounds like a problem with unrealistic play, not unrealistic economy. Hell, even if they are playing well and spending extravagantly, as long as their work/spend rate is positive they'll still outdistance someone who rarely plays. So what?

(Well, you could change it if you went with that idea of getting rid of all independently gained wealth and adding a bunch of automated salaried jobs as the only way to make sid. I think that's a little drastic solution to a few guys who play unrealistically. If everyone played realistically then the core imbalance is not even a problem.)

[Aaron Goulet]

This fix makes it harder for indies to make a lot of cash off some over valued items.

I have no idea what the fix was, but it sounds like a good thing.

[Sinna]

Damn the Imms for making a reasonable, balanced change!  Quite obviously the ideas I favored were better!

[musashi]

I worry that the change is just going to further widen the gap between casual players and players who hit the money grind hard, because that seems to be what similiar changes have always done in the past. Prices go up, sell values go down, so the grinders grind more to make up the difference, and the people who don't grind get stiffed a bit harder.

I was hoping for something to help close that gap, rather than something to further pronounce it.

[BlackMagic0]

I worry that the change is just going to further widen the gap between casual players and players who hit the money grind hard, because that seems to be what similiar changes have always done in the past. Prices go up, sell values go down, so the grinders grind more to make up the difference, and the people who don't grind get stiffed a bit harder.

I was hoping for something to help close that gap, rather than something to further pronounce it.

[Synthesis]

I haven't seen any change that would affect mundane indies.

Magickers can suck it.

[Delstro]

The time played will always impact the amount of wealth a PC can amass. If you honestly want to close this gap, that sounds like  you needing to grief. Ruining the entertainment for the few, mostly younger players is the best way for a MUD to die quickly, IMHO.

If they play more, good for them. You don't get to amass as much money as them? So what? This isn't a game that has a winner based on how much wealth they have. Are you jealous of what the other PC has? If they play more, they are likely to die sooner. Follow them around when you can and make your PC act jealous, and then, when they are at their weakest point, cut their head off.

Can't kill them? Rip their items from them after you poisoned them and they lie helpless.
Can't poison them? Mudsex them, and then do a five finger grab and run game with them.
Can't jack and run? Figure shit out IC and stop trying to cut their legs off OOC.

Besides getting rid of all side jobs and ways to make money as an independent, there is no other way to get rid of this gap than to increase salary positions. Even if you and that other PC has the same job, if they play for 12 hours a day, they can maintain a sidejob and three hookers. Those are the perks of playing more.

Another way is for other houses to give discounts to fellow merchant house members, but you need to pursue this IC.
A templar could fine an unaffiliated commoner every coin they, or their family, has ever had and who will care? Nobody except that PC.
If you work for House Salarr and you have two hundred coins fined from you? Count yourself lucky, if you were unaffiliated, you wouldn't have coin.

[Twilight]

If you both put in 24 hours in a character, I would suggest you both have roughly the same earning potential.  If they are doing it in 2 days, and you are doing it in 24 days, so what?  You are never going to get, and I would suggest should not aim for, parity based on RL time elapsing, as opposed to parity on the basis of days played on a character.  As it stands, you actually have a couple of advantages in grinding cash with your hours played spread out over a longer RL period.

[Salt Merchant]

Even less motivation to go out of the city/village and do anything.

Acquisition of wealth can be a powerful motivating factor, leading to the generation of competition, strife and plots. Removing the potential for achieving wealth from the game just makes us all poorer in terms of the RP.

Although I guess you could argue that this has already been done and that the latest changes don't matter much.

[Aaron Goulet]

For all of these claims that the easy acquisition of wealth creates plots,  I have yet to see much of this in-game.

[Salt Merchant]

For all of these claims that the easy acquisition of wealth creates plots,  I have yet to see much of this in-game.

That's because large sums of coin are already more or less useless to commoners.

[jstorrie]

Not entirely useless, but certainly not the ultimate goal, either.

Survival in Zalanthas generally takes some combination of cunning, (coded) skill, wealth, and popularity. You can make a bajillion coins but it won't make you more cunning or more skillful, and not even necessarily more popular. I find that anyone who really excels in one specific category while being deficient in others tends to get taken out: the cunning are executed for scheming, the popular are targeted by the envious, the skillful bite off more than they can chew, and the wealthy, well, they get their boots looted.

[Sinna]

I once saved up 10k in coins (quite a feat back then) and had my character purchase a wagon.  That was pretty useful.

[Agent_137]

Yea, it's a useful place to camp out in the desert because you wrecked it. (i assume.)

[Sinna]

Yea, it's a useful place to camp out in the desert because you wrecked it. (i assume.)

haha!    It's still in use!

[KankWhisperer]

Fix salting.

[BlackMagic0]

Fix salting.

And fix spice sifting.

[KankWhisperer]

Fix salting.

And fix spice sifting.

Don't know what the issue is with spice sifting. I never was able to make much coins but can make easily a thousand coins in one ic day grebbing salt. Broke.

[KankWhisperer]

moderated post

I really didn't crunch the numbers, but I know what can be done. I didn't even use a full IC day of sunlight. Didn't spam as much as you say. Witnessed by other players.

[Lizzie]

I think that laying out instructions on the actual process and formulae and gain on foraging and selling salt, or anything else, should probably be cleared by staff before posting. Especially since that formula isn't even accurate.