Enslave me!

[crymerci]

You're assuming a slave would want to escape, for one.  If you're starving on the streets, free food and shelter would sound pretty good, whether it was from a job or being enslaved.  Remember that the majority of commoners are living hand to mouth, and the difference between slavery and their life might not seem that huge.

Enslavement as an alternative to death would also sound not too bad.

Of course, if you have a particularly cruel owner, or a really bad job, it would suck.  The first is certainly possible with PCs (though I'd imagine not as likely as one might think) but as for the second, PC slaves are generally not given hard labor or particularly grueling tasks, as far as I've seen.

[Angela Christine]

My impression is that the big slaving houses (Borsail, Kasix and Winrothal) strongly prefer to breed their own slaves and control their environment all their lives.  For general service you want a well-trained slave, and it is easier to train and condition a child.  People enslaved later in life probably wouldn't often find themselves in a position to work with free PCs.

I think there are a couple of classes of slaves captured post-toddlerhood.  

Criminals enslaved (either permanently or temporarily) as part of their punnishment.  These people may have been citizens of the empire, but they ran afoul of the law and now they are property.  Unless you have some remarkable skills (and if you were talented why were you breaking the law?) they probably won't bother breaking and conditioning adult criminals.  They simply send you to one of the heavy labour camps working the farms, the mines, construction or wherever unskilled labour is needed.  Why bother training people who will probably be worked to death in 10 years?  A young street urchin arrested and sentanced to enslavement might be trained for other work, but most adult criminals enslavement will be equivilent to a sentance of hard labour.

The other class of captured slaves are those enslaved outside the cities.  They don't have citizenship or anyone to speak for them in the city where they are sold, so they have no rights.  Many of the adult wildmen are captured to be used as arena fodder, you don't have to waste much time on breaking and training, if they don't co-operate you don't give them good equipment for their battles and they die early.  (They say elves make poor slaves, so most captured elves are likely sent to the arenas.) Children and adolecents from outside the cites might be worth training, while still retaining memories of their life outside the city.  Exotic-looking people might be captured and trained for special roles.  Those adults found to have rare or valuable skills might also be worth the trouble of breaking and training to accept life as a slave.

Are non-PC races ever used for anything but arena fodder?  When is the last time you saw a gith, halfling, braxat or mantis slave?  Some may also be used for heavy labour (if you can break them of the habit of trying to eat their co-workers) but you don't see them wandering the streets.  Wild humans, elves, dwarves, etc., aren't that much less dangerous than wild halflings or gith.

AC

[Carnage]

You're assuming a slave would want to escape, for one.

Yeah. I'm sure there are nice positions as a slave. However, John stated that it's twinkish to escape from slavery and if you RP it properly it shouldn't be possible. I didn't think that was right at all.

Enslavement as an alternative to death would also sound not too bad.

I think, ICly, unless you really have some skills you can offer the house (i.e. you're a good artisan), you're probably not worth the risk of being enslaved. When you get sentenced to death, you've already proven you can't obey the law of the city. What makes Templar Doesn'tgivearatsassaboutyou the idea that you'll listen to him when he tells you to do something degrading?

[Dan]

I will decline to give any indepth reasons as to why I am against this...

Yet I will say that it reeks of OOC knowledge that should -not- be available to the captor. If some OOC info changes how your -character- would act in any situation, then it should not be in place. Play your character as your character would act. Plain and simple.

I just really dont like being forced to see "so and so is willing to be enslaved" when I 'assess -v' them. It is totally irrelevant 99% of the time where people would be interacting and might think of using 'assess -v'.

[spawnloser]

I'm with everyone that says that that knowledge is OOC.  If you don't want to have your character be enslaved, don't get enslaved in the first place or do what it takes to get yourself killed.

On a side note, I'll mention that even in real life it is possible to break just about anyone...and if they don't break, they die.  Granted, Zalanthans don't have some of the technology/psychology available...that just means there are more deaths.

[Gabriel]

Addressing the question of "could a slave escape": No, not likely. In a culture with an institution of slavery, the whole culture is against the escaped slave. You're wearing a collar or other non-trivially removable identifier, or perhaps you've been tattooed or branded with some recognizable slave mark. Anybody who helps you remove or hide that identifier is a criminal. While you're wearing it, you can't get past the city gates without a damn good story; you can't get a job; any guard will stop you if you do anything that looks suspicious (like begging for food).

Would it be possible to escape from your immediate circumstances for a brief while? Sure. But the whole reason people would allow slaves that illusory freedom is that they can't go anywhere once they do. I don't have to send out a half dozen guards looking for one person out of a half million; *any* escaped slaves will draw attention to themselves and end up in custody simply by virtue of being escaped slaves.

[growingall]

Granted, Zalanthans don't have some of the technology/psychology available...that just means there are more deaths.

technology? psycology?

Diaries of a high inquisitor could read that only amateurs were fond of iron maidens and glowing hot iron .. its amazing he said.. what you could do with a simple knife.

You can do soooo much with a person without killing him/her.

[ShaLeah]

I'm really glad this resurfaced.  I think it's an excellent idea. I don't think we have enough PC slaves, enough people to show the player population how prevalent slavery really is.  Slaves are special roles and not everyone who applies for special roles gets them. Showing that a player (not the character) is willing to be enslaved on his stat is a good idea.

I always wanted to play a travelling slaver.

[gfair]

Let's let John play a Slave PC, see how long he likes it.  Slaves can get extremely boring, repetitive, dis-interesting.  But you don't realize that till you play one.

[John]

Let's let John play a Slave PC

If you'll enslave me by surprise, sure thing But I don't want to make a character knowing he will get enslaved. I want to make a character and have no idea if I'll get enslaved. Adds that little bit more incentive NOT to piss off a Templar or to go out hunting alone

I also can't see a slave being anymore boring then say a guard, IF you have the same play time as your master.

[My 2 sids]

First, from an OOC perspective people must understand that a lot of players still only know slavery from the US race-based slavery of Africans.  This means a lot more educating of players into the actual ways of slavery:  how to role-play a slaver or slave.
If people are wanting this (and I admit, slavery can be fun in game) I'd say that "Slaver" could be a guild or sub-class and one that requires at least one karma.  

More than flat out slavery, I could see "indentured service" working in game.  That is not so much enslaving people or legal thing, but more of an understanding and deal between two people.  Perhaps a different kind of collar or armband could signify that although one is not a slave, they do have a master.  These servants would then be in a social ranking between slave and free.  It would allow the servant characters to interact with the public but still require them to be at the mercy of their master.  The other plus side is that indentured service usually means only a given amount of time.  Maybe your character would only serve their master for a year or so, to pay off any depts.

[spawnloser]

So...a body that is not property, so harming it would not piss off the master, but not free, so only half a step up from slaves in that respect.  I can't see getting all the problems and not the only perk of being a slave being a popular role.

[Twilight]

I've had a character enslaved.  No, there was no OOC co-ordination beforehand.  I've seen about 4-5 other characters get enslaved.

The problem, of course, is that the Templar enslaves someone for being a criminal, but then the only thing they can really do is try to give them to a Noble, or a Merchant, House.  Unrealistic, really.  Thats why those people usually ended up running away, or at least attempting to.

Carnage wrote:

I think, ICly, unless you really have some skills you can offer the house (i.e. you're a good artisan), you're probably not worth the risk of being enslaved. When you get sentenced to death, you've already proven you can't obey the law of the city. What makes Templar Doesn'tgivearatsassaboutyou the idea that you'll listen to him when he tells you to do something degrading?

Most slaves do not belong to a House.  I am going off memory of various immortal posts here, but I think in Allanak, there are about 500k people.  Of these 75-80% are slaves.  Of these, something like 75% are owned by the citystate itself.  Most slaves are working in the mines, working on the farms, working in hard labor work gangs constructing buildings, etc.  That is where an PC enslaved for crimes should go, but that really wouldn't be much fun for the PC.

Yes, people escape.  From the hard work gangs.  From the Arena, even.  But that doesn't mean it is easy, or that the success rate is very high.  Work gang slaves are going to have soldiers, templars, etc. looking after them.  All the freaking time.  Its when you give a PC slave to a noble House with five or six active members, and they let you wander free throughout the city that it becomes an absolute cinch to escape.  But then, if you are in that position, why would you want to?

[Anonymous]

I have never, ever read that 75%-80% of the population is slaves.  I don't think that's accurate at all, or there needs to be a massive revamp of the NPC population to reflect that.

Do you have a link?  I recall Sanvean saying the 500k folks in Allanak bit.  But not that 400k of them were slaves.

[My 2 sids]

Let me try to explain what I ment by indentured service more.  http://www.stratfordhall.org/ed-servants.html?EDUCATION gives one of the simplest examples.  However, the idea of limited slavery has been around for quite some time.  Even in the bible, people could pay off depts by becoming slaves for limited amount of time.  What I was suggesting was a type of slavery that would allow a bit more freedom role play wise.  Basicly, the slave could interact a bit more or have more freedom, responcibility than say muls.  At the same time, the slavery wouldn't last so long.  You'd not be waisting a whole character playing a slave or escaped slave for years on end.

[spawnloser]

I'm talking about on Zalanthas, where being a slave owned by a noble almost gives the body more status than a commoner.

[Twilight]

It would have been on the old boards, which I can't even find anymore.  Afraid I am not sifting through ten years or whatever of posts, which is why I said off the top of my head.

What I can definately say is that once, somewhere on the boards, an immortal made a post regarding this (for Allanak).  I have a very strong recollection that it was a majority of the population in Allanak, and I am about 80% sure that the numbers were somewhere in the region of what I qouted.

[Bessie]

Indentured servant is a lot more than just someone who isn't property and isn't free.

It's someone who has incurred a debt that they can't pay off, and works off the debt instead.

So for instance - a beggar who's arrested for loitering around Trader's Inn and is fined 2000 sids. That begger can either a) pay the fine, b) die, or c) work off the debt.

Perhaps they'll become the templar's spy, at a rate of 200 sids a month. He wouldn't ever see that money, since that 200 sids goes toward the 2000 sid debt.  But he'd be able to continue begging, without further harrassment from the Temparate, and spy on everyone. After the 10 weeks is over, if he did a good job, the Templar might grant him a token of gratuity - perhaps just 100 sids, or a clean pair of pants, or even might offer to continue the service with the 200 monthly sids actually going to the beggar.

Maybe a licensed thief stole from a noble in the north, and the noble found out who it was. The object stolen is gone, it was sold off for spending money. But that object had a value of 1000 sids. The noble could offer to allow the commoner to work off the 1000 sid debt. In this way, the "body" isn't wasted in the arena, the commoner learns his lesson, and the house gets some work done by someone who isn't on a regular payroll.

Perhaps he'll just clean the stables 2 hours a day, at the rate of 200 sids "worth" of work a month. After 5 weeks (RL weeks), the commoner and noble might have learned more about each other and decide a mutual benefit in continuing the service as an actual hired employee. If not, the work got done, the debt is paid, and the commoner is free to go.

I can totally see indentured service work great in Arm.

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

I actually like this idea, but not in assess. What I'd actually suggest is a new assess command solely for RP permissions. RPASS. THis would contain info concerning:

Sexual situations.

Enslavement.

Etc.

This would let the player know ahead of time, without the ooc command, whether he should fade to black, or what.

[spawnloser]

There's a problem...in Zalanthas, if you are a commoner citizen, people actually care less about you than a slave.  The fack that a slave is property to someone that can afford it means they have some resources with which to exact any vengence for damage of their property.  Being an indentured servant would not come with this perk...but you would still basically be owned by someone.

[Not logged in]

http://www.zalanthas.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.phpt=1136&highlight=slavery

This is the one twilight was talking about

[My 2 sids]

Sorry about heading off topic.  Spawnloser, I replied here http://www.zalanthas.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=6917

[Anonymous]

http://www.zalanthas.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.phpt=1136&start=15&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=


This one should work.

[Anonymous]

Zalanthan Slavery is not the same as historical slavery
Name of the thread, Look it up, Twilight.. you owe me one.