Enslave me!

[John]

For ages now I've wished there was some way for me to get enslaved. Perhaps a way to implement it would be to have it so you set it as a flag like the review flag and then when members of certain clans (such as Winrothol and Borsail) ass -v'd you it would come up with

the man is taller then you
the man is heavier then you
the man is in excellent
the man looks tired
the man is willing to be enslaved

so then PCs could let people know they are OOCly fine with being enslaved (because I've yet to play a char who wants to be enslaved ). I think it would allow for a lot more roles and fun in the game (such as the risk of being enslaved (which is nill atm), slave trainers, slave capturers, slaves) as all of those things are extremely limited.

Any other slavers would need to mail the mud account to be added to a misc slave clan which would have no code benefits or board benefits but it would let you ass -v people and see if they're willing to be enslaved It'd also let the Imms know of anyone trying to enslave PCs (don't know if it's not allowed without Imm supervision or not)

What do people think? (It wouldn't take much coding I imagine as it's just like the review flag)

[Sandferret]

It is not a bad idea, but wouldn't it suffice to put it in the objective and maybe e-mail to the clan imm of the clan you wish to enslave you?

[John]

wouldn't it suffice to put it in the objective and maybe e-mail to the clan imm of the clan you wish to enslave you?

Yeah, but that requires more Imm work, and also, unless the Imms let players know of the clan EVERY person who can be enslaved (and their characters various names and sdescs which would change) then it would be a lot more difficult.

Also, just because you OOCly don't mind if your enslaved, it doesn't mean you will be

[X-D]

Actually, I like that idea, It would allow another facet risk to the game and allow RP that currently does not really exist.

Of course, the difference being that, now, as a player you have to activly seek to have a slave char in an ooc fashion, Johns idea would allow you to simply aknowledge that being made a slave is a possibility in game and that the player is willing to abide by this -IF- it was to happen.

Odds are it would not happen, but the possibility would be there. Also, it does not mean that the char with the slave consent flag on would not do everything in his power to -not- be made a slave. But it would allow for smoother RP of the event if it was to happen.

Hey, did I put that well enough John?

[Northlander]

I don't like this but haven't voted yet as well, I'm not quite sure.
My problem with it would be that people might feel they aren't in any instance allowed to enslave someone who doesn't have that flag turned on.

I feel it's a step in the direction of having On/Off flags for allowing PKs and mutilations.

[John]

did I put that well enough John?

Thanks X-D

My problem with it would be that people might feel they aren't in any instance allowed to enslave someone who doesn't have that flag turned on.

Are they allowed to? Playing a slave means there is a LOT of solo-rping time and idle time. I wouldn't want to force anyone into that position. Sure ICly Templars can enslave anyone they want, but OOCly I thought they weren't allowed to enslave PCs without organising it beforehand?

[Northlander]

Krath if I know.. I think an OOC is recommended somewhere.
And I don't agree with you about how playing a slave necessarily means all that much solo-RP and idle time.. It all depends on your master. I further believe people wouldn't enslave PCs unless they actually had things for them to do.

And no, I haven't voted yet.

[Dracul]

I really like the idea of being enslaved IC. even with my current char...itd be intresting.

[FiveDisgruntledMonkeysWit]

I'm leaning to the 'no' side of things on this one, John.

First of all, people can be enslaved IC. It's not impossible, I've even seen it happen once in my short time being here. All you have to do is make a templar real uncomfortable...

But I'd have to agree with Northlander that a 'don't enslave me!' flag is a bit hack 'n slashy.

Furthermore, I don't think most slave capturing would take place in Allanak. "Hey, Joe. We need three new slaves before Detal. Let's go down to the Gaj and grab a few, okay? And maybe a mug?"

No. Slaving, I believe, would consist of raiding tribal encampments, or forcing criminals or 'unsavory characters' into the role. Of course, everything would need a way of being sorted out OOC. If a player adamantly believes they couldn't play a slave well, then I'm sure they slavers could politely 'slip up', and let that one little 'rinth rat they caught pocketing go. All in all, I think they reason we don't see much slaving is because people just aren't interested in it. If we say a boost in PC slave traders and such, I'm sure they'd find a deal to make it work. Maybe strike a deal with the templarate to 'acquire' a few criminals every once in a while? Maybe they grab a sword, a whip and cage and go out to a tribe's land and just wait? Bribe a poor family? Whatever. My opinion is, this idea wouldn't help anything.

Sorry John...

[Northlander]

Hey, someone who agrees with me. I'll agree with me as well and cast my vote.

[Armaddict]

I dunno.  In a society like Allanak's with a well set up, completely unbalanced hierarchy, it seems to me that it makes -very- little impact that each and any commoner scrambling out of that Borsail's way could be enslaved for kicking up dust in his face.  It makes -very- little impact that at that noble's whim, talking shit to his wyvern guard could get you into the career of wiping ass, giving pleasure, or dying in the arena.  After all, they're SLAVERS.  Wouldn't that mean that they make people...slaves? :idea:

I personally feel that slaving is -under- done.  I remember once when I played a 'rinther, some imm did an echo of a templar just outside the labyrinth, just him leaving with a bunch of low-class population and slavers.  Whaddya think they were doing?  :roll:

The only apparent reason I can find for the lack of slaving around civilization as opposed to in tribal settlements is that then slavers have to deal with PC's.  Most of which would be -very- upset at losing their character to slavery at someone else's whim, being pushed into complete submission that completely changes their character concept, and being doomed to different (not necessarily worse, but they don't wanna try it out) RP.

In other words, I'm in favor of this idea.  ANYTHING to give them slavers something to do, those bounty hunters something to help with,  and the people who -already- have the balls and innovation to play a slave someone else to relate to.

Ciao.  

[Marauder Moe]

This all sounds like too much trouble to me.  Especially when you consider how easy escape would be, why would anyone want a slave who hasn't undergone conditioning?  And who (as a PC) would -want- to RP all of that?

I think that if you really want to play a slave, special app one.

[Armaddict]

You get enslaved, you aren't just instantly put in a situation you can escape from.  You're broken.

And...escaped slaves is -more- jobs for people to do...i.e. Bounty Hunters, Slavers...did you even read my last post?  :shock:

[crymerci]

I like the premise behind the idea, and I think that PCs should be enslaved more often (as an alternative to death-by-arena or being disappeared).  However, slave roleplay is demanding on both slave and owner, and not everyone wants to deal with it.

BTW, in cities, Borsail and Winrothol cannot enslave people, only templars can (but they can then make a deal with the slaving House if they don't want to train the slave themselves).  Borsail and Winrothol only directly capture slaves on outside raids (although they can always make a deal with a templar to enslave your disrespectful ass).

However, I agree with Armaddict that this would be a good opportunity to create more roles: slavers, slave trainers, etc.  These roles would add more flavor and diversity to the game, so that the choice of which House to sign up with is about more than who recruits first and who has the best uniform colors.

And for Moe: You ask who would want to RP these things--I think plenty of people would, maybe not you, but I'd love to play a slaver, a bounty hunter, an enslaved smart-mouth or any number of different slavery-related roles.

[Cuusardo]

For ages now I've wished there was some way for me to get enslaved.

John, I think what you need is a good Mistress.   :wink:

[Carnage]

I voted no, which tied it up (8v8)

I think that everyone should be willing to accept that their characters can be enslaved, just like characters can be killed. If your character is enslaved and you, the player don't like it, then retire or something. I know that at any time, some templar or whatever can come along and enslave my characters. Most of mine are the kind that would just say 'Sure, enslave me rather than kill me' and run down to Red Storm/Luir's when the guy was looking the other way. In Zalanthas, if you want to disappear, you can.

Second, I think it'd just be...creepy and constantly in my face. It would feel too much like someone wants some hot S&M if I see "They are willing to be enslaved" in their assess.

>The tall, golden-haired man winks at you.

>emote glances to his left, then his right, then points at himself and arches a brow as his gaze returns to ~golden
The slender, agafari-haired guy glances to his left, then his right, then points to himself and arches a brow as his gaze returns to ~golden

>The tall, golden-haired stud smiles wickedly and nods.

>assess -v stud
He is younger than you
He is quite a bit taller than you.
He is heavier than you
The tall, golden-haired man is in excellent condition.
The tall, golden-haired man looks completely rested.
The tall, golden-haired man is willing to be enslaved

>think Aw crap.
You think, 'Aw crap.'

[John]

Sorry John...

Don't have to apologise.

Is there an Imm's response on enslaving people? I've personally never seen someone enslaved, and the enslaving thing wouldn't only be restricted to PCs. It would be more then possible to enslave people en-route/tribals, hunters, although it would take more effort with buying spies to keep track of them, trackers (track down tribals). Imagine not being scared of going hunting with that stranger because he'll kill you, but being scared because he'll sell your ass to the Wyverns you just saw leaving.

when you consider how easy escape would be, why would anyone want a slave who hasn't undergone conditioning? And who (as a PC) would -want- to RP all of that?

Escape would probably be fairly easy if you twinked out. It would be next to impossible if you RP'd properly. Most slaves probably aren't captured as children or bred. Once they're broken, they would provide many useful skills. And as for RPing out being broken, I wouldn't mind RPing that out, as long as it wasn't detailed. There are undetailed ways to RP it

Just my 2 'sid

[Carnage]

Capture (caught slaves): One quarter of slaves were captured or sold into slavery at such an advanced age that they retain memories of freedom. These slaves are typically regarded as a greater risk than either born or caught slaves and as such are far less likely to be given privileges or become elevated in rank.

Escape would probably be fairly easy if you twinked out. It would be next to impossible if you RP'd properly. Most slaves probably aren't captured as children or bred. Once they're broken, they would provide many useful skills. And as for RPing out being broken, I wouldn't mind RPing that out, as long as it wasn't detailed. There are undetailed ways to RP it

I disagree. Allanak is a HUGE city. Losing someone, RP-wise, isn't hard to do. Go to New York City or another metropolitan-type area. Look at one person. Now spend time trying to track them down. You can't use modern technology and you have to describe them (no sketches or pictures). How many people do you think are going to know that 'guy with the brown hair and the blue eyes and glasses, light skin?' How successful do you think you're going to be? Now throw in the fact that you're a member of an oppressive government that nobody really likes.

It's not 'twinkish' to escape (physically, that is). If you mean emotionally, well look at how the slaves escaped in America using the Underground Railroad. They were born and brought in and they still tried to escape (and successfully did), even though they may have faced a harsher life in the north and death. They still valued their freedom above all.

[John]

I disagree. Allanak is a HUGE city. Losing someone, RP-wise, isn't hard to do.

First lock the person up in jail with guards constantly around who are use to having prisoners try to escape. Then try to have the person escape. I imagine it wouldn't be too easy.

It's not 'twinkish' to escape (physically, that is).

Once they're locked up in the slave pens I imagine it would be fairly difficult to escape ICly. Now once their training is over that's another story as well as when they're being transported to the slaving pens. Those would be the easiest times to escape.

you have to describe them (no sketches).

Why no sketches? Hmmmm. That brings up another question. Should sketches of people be used when trying to capture them? I imagine up north they would be used a lot more then down south.

Now throw in the fact that you're a member of an oppressive government that nobody really likes.

Do people really dislike the Sun King/Highlord? I thought the majority (51% ) of people wouldn't really think about it nor care. Sure noamds, rich merchants, Red Stormers  and Outposters wouldn't like them, but what about the rest?

[Carnage]

Once they're locked up in the slave pens I imagine it would be fairly difficult to escape ICly. Now once their training is over that's another story as well as when they're being transported to the slaving pens. Those would be the easiest times to escape.

First of all, you didn't say anything about location and that they were in prison or the slave pens. Second, you'd have to really want someone to be in prison. You're allocating at least two (taking shifts to sleep and eat), if not more to watch over a single person. They've got 100% of their time dedicated to it, time that could be spent elsewhere. Second, keeping someone in prison costs money since you're feeding them and paying the guards. Third, it'll cost even more money to have them 'trained'. All under the risk that, when you least suspect it, they'll run away and you'll have wasted all that money. Not to mention that they'll probably do most jobs half-assed that a paid and happy person could do better.

You have to ask: why bother? It's a lot easier to kill someone. Maybe if you want them as a trophy? I could see it being done to a noble that wandered into the wrong citystate, but not to Joe Rinthi the Elven Pickpocket who nobody cares about. A majority of the playerbase aren't worth being enslaved. And the ones that are are too dangerous.

Why no sketches? Hmmmm. That brings up another question. Should sketches of people be used when trying to capture them? I imagine up north they would be used a lot more then down south.

How many paintings have you seen in Allanak? Allanak isn't known for the arts. In fact, I doubt there are many people who could draw a decent stick figure, much less produce a sketch based on the description you give them. Becoming an artist is a lot harder for a Zalanthan person than an earth one. It takes time, money, devotion, and they don't have the finer controls with a pen/brush that we do, since we grew up with holding pencils in our hand. A sketch is probably going to cost a lot to make. Once again, do you really care enough to spend all this money because that guy took five 'sid from you and you want to make a point?

Do people really dislike the Sun King/Highlord? I thought the majority (51% ) of people wouldn't really think about it nor care. Sure noamds, rich merchants, Red Stormers and Outposters wouldn't like them, but what about the rest?

From the What You Know - Allanak docs:

"The life of an Allanaki citizen is one of strife--expensive and degenerate living conditions, a nearly omnipotent ruler and His Templars watching your every move, and no place to hide except the burning wastelands outside the city gates. Highlord Tektolnes inspires a silent paranoia in all of his subjects, and thus has remained unchallenged during his multi-millenial reign. Most Allanakis are slaves belonging to the nobles and Templars, and the commoners are usually of the merchant class or soldiers in Tektolnes' army. The rest of the population earn their living in less honest ways."

Basically, you're living in a shithole with some guy watching every step you take. It doesn't sound like such a great place to me. While yes, the documents also state that many commoners work in Tektolnes' army, I wouldn't necessarily say that means he's liked. The choice seems to be either have a talent, starve, live the very short life of a criminal, or join the army. The only reason a revolution really hasn't occurred is because of the power Tektolnes wields. He reminds everyone who enters his city state of that every day. Look at the steel dragon above the gates, with the DWARF MADE OF OBSIDIAN IN ITS MOUTH. If that's not a message, I don't know what is

[creeper386]

I'm so going to have to disagree with Carnage. A slave wouldn't be just allowed out anywhere(Or with privilages) if they are an escape risk. Also, the black people weren't the only people that didn't like slavery, there was lots of people that weren't slaves that helped to instigate things.

Also, noone likes the government? Thats what you get when you look at all the PCs it seems. But in my opinion, almost everyone in at least Tuluk and Allanak, back the government, without templars there would be no order, it'd be absolute chaos with 'rinthers and elves all over. It'd be really bad. Also, most all of them worship Tek' or Muk respectively. The government is the God Kings choosen. The beleive that noone likes the governments or anything I beleive is all a PC thing thats gotten out of hand.

As for slavery... You can very well use sketches to find people. No reason you couldn't. Also, most people that would own slaves may not be rich rich but they are most likely going to have lots of contacts, from the lowly 'rinther elf on the corner that keeps track of who goes in and out of their store and sometimes steals things from thieves that rob it, to mercenaries/whores and the rest of the general populace, to high ranking officials/templars and the such. Thats even if it's RPed correctly as even most people that have been free and then enslaved are too afraid to try and escape. They wouldn't just walk off and out the gates. Also got to RP the fact as being an escaped slave they aren't just going to pay to get on a caravan to another city, include the fact that very few people would ever go out into the desert alone, much less know WHERE to go from there, or ever live trying to get there.... Blah blah blah. It goes on and on. If it was always so easy to escape slavery... Most societies in real life, nor in Arm would be built around slavery and flourished greatly.

Creeper

[John]

Okay, I _definitely_ need to go back and read the docs. *goes back and reads them*

First of all, you didn't say anything about location and that they were in prison or the slave pens.

Sorry, I've always just assumed that somewhere in Allanak there were slave pens where slaves (such as pleasure slaves) were taught.

Second, you'd have to really want someone to be in prison. You're allocating at least two (taking shifts to sleep and eat), if not more to watch over a single person. They've got 100% of their time dedicated to it, time that could be spent elsewhere.

Sorry I wasn't clear enough. I didn't mean to allocate someone to watch over one slave. I meant have something (like the Allanaki jails) where a couple of guards watched over a group of slaves (that were locked up).

Second, keeping someone in prison costs money since you're feeding them and paying the guards. Third, it'll cost even more money to have them 'trained'. All under the risk that, when you least suspect it, they'll run away and you'll have wasted all that money. Not to mention that they'll probably do most jobs half-assed that a paid and happy person could do better.

Slavery on Zalanthas[/url]"]Three quarters of all slaves were born as such, or sold into slavery at such a young age that they remember nothing else.

So that means 1 third is captured. They wouldn't be given roles where they can be trusted to a large degree, but 1 third of all slaves in Allanak are captured in their adulthood (a large number I'd imagine). And yes, it would cost a lot, but it does happen. If you don't put slaves in a "prison" where else are you going to put them?

A majority of the playerbase aren't worth being enslaved. And the ones that are are too dangerous.

Well I started talking about slavery in general. But to go back to enslaving players. Yeah, a majority of the playerbase would cause hell. But child players (it happens from time to time) would get probably be easier to enslave and it'd probably be possible to make them forget being free.

How many paintings have you seen in Allanak?

Stout wooden beams support the panelled roof of the room, each bearing many drawings carved by the patrons of the tavern.

There are also places to buy painting materials.

I doubt there are many people who could draw a decent stick figure, much less produce a sketch based on the description you give them.

Slavery in Zalanthas[/url]"]A large proportion of the Sun King's army consisted of human or half-giant slave soldiers. While a large proportion of slaves were used for labor or domestic duties, as in Allanak, a significant proportion were slave artisans.

I imagine it would be more common in Tuluk, but I imagine it wouldn't be uncommon.

Basically, you're living in a shithole with some guy watching every step you take. It doesn't sound like such a great place to me.

I always see Allanak as a love-hate relationship. Yes they resent the Highlord but they also worship him out of fear. If the Highlord dissapeared what would they do? The entire city would probably turn into the 'rinth. The Highlord does keep everyone relatively safe, and it's a lot better then living under those northern barbarians.

[Carnage]

I still don't agree.

Quote a figure on the population, by Sanvean, somewhere a while back (Use search to look for it):

Allanak has a population of some 500k

Five hundred thousand people. Now, just for a minute, stop thinking of the mapped-out area of Allanak you have in your head. You've got a giant city. Split into six quarters: The elementalists', the commoners' the Bazaar, the Arena, the Merchants', and the Nobles'. There's also the Labyrinth, which is as long as the entire city.

Keep in mind, this isn't an easily spread out place. It's thickly packed, people of all ages. I'm Joe Commoner. Somehow I offend your templarship, who wants to enslave me. I'm being dragged to prison, but manage to escape. Now I can go to one of the seven outlined areas above. Nobles'? Spotted in a second. Merchants'? You'll be picked out just as fast as the Nobles'. Commoners'? Maybe. It's densely packed, diseased, filthy, it has dark alleyways, smells like shit, and is filled with some of those screwed over by your Graciousness. Now factor out nobles from setting out foot there. Some templars, too. The ones you'd really have to avoid would be the Militia. However, you grew up with these guys. You might be friends with some. You could bribe them off or they could owe you a favor, whatever.

Once again, you have to not think in gameterms for this to stop working. In the game, you can just type 'look realname' and you'll know for sure that Abobo is actually that criminal the templar wants. In 'Nak though, they can't do that. They just have some descriptions. Okay, I'll give you your sketch. There's a sketch of you. One, maybe two. Don't count on there being a lot of copies, as everything has to be done by hand. Don't think it's going to be a great indicator, though. I doubt that Nakis have too many variations of the colors we know or all this knowledge of shading and 3D. If you dye or cut your hair, you can already screw up a lot of people. Add a scar, maybe break your nose, try to get a darker tan, and it's going to be hard to pick you out.

Let's say I don't want the commoner's, though. I go to the Elementalist's. I'm a stranger to all of the people there. No one knows who I am. Just some guy that came in. Put on an act or something where I'm real quiet. Don't say anything (ungemmed, or trying to cover up my neck as if shamed). People'll presume you're one of them, just odd. In my opinion, there would be a slight feeling of kinship between magickers and would be more willing to stick together (like how ethnic groups like to stick together). Now add in that people are afraid of elementalists. Militia are going to be nervous about patrolling the area and try to do it fast. Templars also will tend to be on their toes, and a noble wouldn't be caught dead in there.

Then there's the 'Rinth. There are no Militia in the 'Rinth. There are no Templars in the 'Rinth. People are scared of the 'Rinth. If you've got the guts to hide out in the 'Rinth, you should be more afraid of the folks in there than that templar. Chances are you won't survive long in the 'Rinth if you stay there for a long time. I'd say person in cheap garb could survive a few hours in the 'Rinth, on average. Long enough to get that templar off your trail.

Now, add all of this stuff together. All these places to hide. You're just a face in the crowd. Plus, this templar has absolutely no idea if you're dead yet. If you run out into the 'Rinth, I'm sure they're not going to believe you'll survive for long. Hell, they don't even know if you're in the city. If a Naki really, truly wanted to evade capture and was willing to do a lot, I think it's feasible. Is it 'easy'? No, but it's possible and considering the extraordinary will to survive (as said in the docs) that Zalanthas have, it could easily happen.

So that means 1 third is captured. They wouldn't be given roles where they can be trusted to a large degree, but 1 third of all slaves in Allanak are captured in their adulthood

No, 25% is captured. Three quarters is 75%. And it's not only adults. It's people who have memories of freedom. Basically adolescent and up.

Well I started talking about slavery in general. But to go back to enslaving players. Yeah, a majority of the playerbase would cause hell

I take it back. In general, most Zalanthas aren't worth being enslaved. The playerbase represents the better part of Zalanthan society for the most part.

There are also places to buy painting materials.

Indeed there are. However, paintings are minute part of society and getting that sketch of the criminal is going to be tough. Paintings in the Gaj are there for a while and going to be admired by a lot of people, plus most likely drawn with creative freedom to the person. However, a templar is telling this person what to draw, they're doing it most likely under time constraints, and they have crude painting materials to work with. It's not going to be shaded well, the colors aren't going to be 100% correct (probably about 70% if they're lucky) and it's most likely going to be done sloppy. I wouldn't have too much faith in this pretty little picture.

[John]

I'm being dragged to prison, but manage to escape.

Exactly. Your being dragged. Once your in jail what are your chances of escape?

No, 25% is captured. Three quarters is 75%

pffft. Thanks *looks for his brain somewhere*

And if sketches aren't viable? How are people captured at all then? I don't mean game terms, I mean ICly

This has made for a lot more interesting discussion then I thought it would

[Carnage]

Once your in jail what are your chances of escape?

We're not talking about being in jail, we're talking about slavery. I'm sure there are tons of little opportunities to escape during the day. Point into a building and scream, 'OH MY HIGHLORD THAT MAN IS PRACTICING MAGICK!' then run.

The point of all these posts was that there were ways to escape being wanted/captured, not how to get out of jail.

And if sketches aren't viable? How are people captured at all then? I don't mean game terms, I mean ICly

You suspend your disbelief.

[crymerci]

You're assuming a slave would want to escape, for one.  If you're starving on the streets, free food and shelter would sound pretty good, whether it was from a job or being enslaved.  Remember that the majority of commoners are living hand to mouth, and the difference between slavery and their life might not seem that huge.

Enslavement as an alternative to death would also sound not too bad.

Of course, if you have a particularly cruel owner, or a really bad job, it would suck.  The first is certainly possible with PCs (though I'd imagine not as likely as one might think) but as for the second, PC slaves are generally not given hard labor or particularly grueling tasks, as far as I've seen.

[Angela Christine]

My impression is that the big slaving houses (Borsail, Kasix and Winrothal) strongly prefer to breed their own slaves and control their environment all their lives.  For general service you want a well-trained slave, and it is easier to train and condition a child.  People enslaved later in life probably wouldn't often find themselves in a position to work with free PCs.

I think there are a couple of classes of slaves captured post-toddlerhood.  

Criminals enslaved (either permanently or temporarily) as part of their punnishment.  These people may have been citizens of the empire, but they ran afoul of the law and now they are property.  Unless you have some remarkable skills (and if you were talented why were you breaking the law?) they probably won't bother breaking and conditioning adult criminals.  They simply send you to one of the heavy labour camps working the farms, the mines, construction or wherever unskilled labour is needed.  Why bother training people who will probably be worked to death in 10 years?  A young street urchin arrested and sentanced to enslavement might be trained for other work, but most adult criminals enslavement will be equivilent to a sentance of hard labour.

The other class of captured slaves are those enslaved outside the cities.  They don't have citizenship or anyone to speak for them in the city where they are sold, so they have no rights.  Many of the adult wildmen are captured to be used as arena fodder, you don't have to waste much time on breaking and training, if they don't co-operate you don't give them good equipment for their battles and they die early.  (They say elves make poor slaves, so most captured elves are likely sent to the arenas.) Children and adolecents from outside the cites might be worth training, while still retaining memories of their life outside the city.  Exotic-looking people might be captured and trained for special roles.  Those adults found to have rare or valuable skills might also be worth the trouble of breaking and training to accept life as a slave.

Are non-PC races ever used for anything but arena fodder?  When is the last time you saw a gith, halfling, braxat or mantis slave?  Some may also be used for heavy labour (if you can break them of the habit of trying to eat their co-workers) but you don't see them wandering the streets.  Wild humans, elves, dwarves, etc., aren't that much less dangerous than wild halflings or gith.

AC

[Carnage]

You're assuming a slave would want to escape, for one.

Yeah. I'm sure there are nice positions as a slave. However, John stated that it's twinkish to escape from slavery and if you RP it properly it shouldn't be possible. I didn't think that was right at all.

Enslavement as an alternative to death would also sound not too bad.

I think, ICly, unless you really have some skills you can offer the house (i.e. you're a good artisan), you're probably not worth the risk of being enslaved. When you get sentenced to death, you've already proven you can't obey the law of the city. What makes Templar Doesn'tgivearatsassaboutyou the idea that you'll listen to him when he tells you to do something degrading?

[Dan]

I will decline to give any indepth reasons as to why I am against this...

Yet I will say that it reeks of OOC knowledge that should -not- be available to the captor. If some OOC info changes how your -character- would act in any situation, then it should not be in place. Play your character as your character would act. Plain and simple.

I just really dont like being forced to see "so and so is willing to be enslaved" when I 'assess -v' them. It is totally irrelevant 99% of the time where people would be interacting and might think of using 'assess -v'.

[spawnloser]

I'm with everyone that says that that knowledge is OOC.  If you don't want to have your character be enslaved, don't get enslaved in the first place or do what it takes to get yourself killed.

On a side note, I'll mention that even in real life it is possible to break just about anyone...and if they don't break, they die.  Granted, Zalanthans don't have some of the technology/psychology available...that just means there are more deaths.

[Gabriel]

Addressing the question of "could a slave escape": No, not likely. In a culture with an institution of slavery, the whole culture is against the escaped slave. You're wearing a collar or other non-trivially removable identifier, or perhaps you've been tattooed or branded with some recognizable slave mark. Anybody who helps you remove or hide that identifier is a criminal. While you're wearing it, you can't get past the city gates without a damn good story; you can't get a job; any guard will stop you if you do anything that looks suspicious (like begging for food).

Would it be possible to escape from your immediate circumstances for a brief while? Sure. But the whole reason people would allow slaves that illusory freedom is that they can't go anywhere once they do. I don't have to send out a half dozen guards looking for one person out of a half million; *any* escaped slaves will draw attention to themselves and end up in custody simply by virtue of being escaped slaves.

[growingall]

Granted, Zalanthans don't have some of the technology/psychology available...that just means there are more deaths.

technology? psycology?

Diaries of a high inquisitor could read that only amateurs were fond of iron maidens and glowing hot iron .. its amazing he said.. what you could do with a simple knife.

You can do soooo much with a person without killing him/her.

[ShaLeah]

I'm really glad this resurfaced.  I think it's an excellent idea. I don't think we have enough PC slaves, enough people to show the player population how prevalent slavery really is.  Slaves are special roles and not everyone who applies for special roles gets them. Showing that a player (not the character) is willing to be enslaved on his stat is a good idea.

I always wanted to play a travelling slaver.

[gfair]

Let's let John play a Slave PC, see how long he likes it.  Slaves can get extremely boring, repetitive, dis-interesting.  But you don't realize that till you play one.

[John]

Let's let John play a Slave PC

If you'll enslave me by surprise, sure thing But I don't want to make a character knowing he will get enslaved. I want to make a character and have no idea if I'll get enslaved. Adds that little bit more incentive NOT to piss off a Templar or to go out hunting alone

I also can't see a slave being anymore boring then say a guard, IF you have the same play time as your master.

[My 2 sids]

First, from an OOC perspective people must understand that a lot of players still only know slavery from the US race-based slavery of Africans.  This means a lot more educating of players into the actual ways of slavery:  how to role-play a slaver or slave.
If people are wanting this (and I admit, slavery can be fun in game) I'd say that "Slaver" could be a guild or sub-class and one that requires at least one karma.  

More than flat out slavery, I could see "indentured service" working in game.  That is not so much enslaving people or legal thing, but more of an understanding and deal between two people.  Perhaps a different kind of collar or armband could signify that although one is not a slave, they do have a master.  These servants would then be in a social ranking between slave and free.  It would allow the servant characters to interact with the public but still require them to be at the mercy of their master.  The other plus side is that indentured service usually means only a given amount of time.  Maybe your character would only serve their master for a year or so, to pay off any depts.

[spawnloser]

So...a body that is not property, so harming it would not piss off the master, but not free, so only half a step up from slaves in that respect.  I can't see getting all the problems and not the only perk of being a slave being a popular role.

[Twilight]

I've had a character enslaved.  No, there was no OOC co-ordination beforehand.  I've seen about 4-5 other characters get enslaved.

The problem, of course, is that the Templar enslaves someone for being a criminal, but then the only thing they can really do is try to give them to a Noble, or a Merchant, House.  Unrealistic, really.  Thats why those people usually ended up running away, or at least attempting to.

Carnage wrote:

I think, ICly, unless you really have some skills you can offer the house (i.e. you're a good artisan), you're probably not worth the risk of being enslaved. When you get sentenced to death, you've already proven you can't obey the law of the city. What makes Templar Doesn'tgivearatsassaboutyou the idea that you'll listen to him when he tells you to do something degrading?

Most slaves do not belong to a House.  I am going off memory of various immortal posts here, but I think in Allanak, there are about 500k people.  Of these 75-80% are slaves.  Of these, something like 75% are owned by the citystate itself.  Most slaves are working in the mines, working on the farms, working in hard labor work gangs constructing buildings, etc.  That is where an PC enslaved for crimes should go, but that really wouldn't be much fun for the PC.

Yes, people escape.  From the hard work gangs.  From the Arena, even.  But that doesn't mean it is easy, or that the success rate is very high.  Work gang slaves are going to have soldiers, templars, etc. looking after them.  All the freaking time.  Its when you give a PC slave to a noble House with five or six active members, and they let you wander free throughout the city that it becomes an absolute cinch to escape.  But then, if you are in that position, why would you want to?

[Anonymous]

I have never, ever read that 75%-80% of the population is slaves.  I don't think that's accurate at all, or there needs to be a massive revamp of the NPC population to reflect that.

Do you have a link?  I recall Sanvean saying the 500k folks in Allanak bit.  But not that 400k of them were slaves.

[My 2 sids]

Let me try to explain what I ment by indentured service more.  http://www.stratfordhall.org/ed-servants.html?EDUCATION gives one of the simplest examples.  However, the idea of limited slavery has been around for quite some time.  Even in the bible, people could pay off depts by becoming slaves for limited amount of time.  What I was suggesting was a type of slavery that would allow a bit more freedom role play wise.  Basicly, the slave could interact a bit more or have more freedom, responcibility than say muls.  At the same time, the slavery wouldn't last so long.  You'd not be waisting a whole character playing a slave or escaped slave for years on end.

[spawnloser]

I'm talking about on Zalanthas, where being a slave owned by a noble almost gives the body more status than a commoner.

[Twilight]

It would have been on the old boards, which I can't even find anymore.  Afraid I am not sifting through ten years or whatever of posts, which is why I said off the top of my head.

What I can definately say is that once, somewhere on the boards, an immortal made a post regarding this (for Allanak).  I have a very strong recollection that it was a majority of the population in Allanak, and I am about 80% sure that the numbers were somewhere in the region of what I qouted.

[Bessie]

Indentured servant is a lot more than just someone who isn't property and isn't free.

It's someone who has incurred a debt that they can't pay off, and works off the debt instead.

So for instance - a beggar who's arrested for loitering around Trader's Inn and is fined 2000 sids. That begger can either a) pay the fine, b) die, or c) work off the debt.

Perhaps they'll become the templar's spy, at a rate of 200 sids a month. He wouldn't ever see that money, since that 200 sids goes toward the 2000 sid debt.  But he'd be able to continue begging, without further harrassment from the Temparate, and spy on everyone. After the 10 weeks is over, if he did a good job, the Templar might grant him a token of gratuity - perhaps just 100 sids, or a clean pair of pants, or even might offer to continue the service with the 200 monthly sids actually going to the beggar.

Maybe a licensed thief stole from a noble in the north, and the noble found out who it was. The object stolen is gone, it was sold off for spending money. But that object had a value of 1000 sids. The noble could offer to allow the commoner to work off the 1000 sid debt. In this way, the "body" isn't wasted in the arena, the commoner learns his lesson, and the house gets some work done by someone who isn't on a regular payroll.

Perhaps he'll just clean the stables 2 hours a day, at the rate of 200 sids "worth" of work a month. After 5 weeks (RL weeks), the commoner and noble might have learned more about each other and decide a mutual benefit in continuing the service as an actual hired employee. If not, the work got done, the debt is paid, and the commoner is free to go.

I can totally see indentured service work great in Arm.

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

I actually like this idea, but not in assess. What I'd actually suggest is a new assess command solely for RP permissions. RPASS. THis would contain info concerning:

Sexual situations.

Enslavement.

Etc.

This would let the player know ahead of time, without the ooc command, whether he should fade to black, or what.

[spawnloser]

There's a problem...in Zalanthas, if you are a commoner citizen, people actually care less about you than a slave.  The fack that a slave is property to someone that can afford it means they have some resources with which to exact any vengence for damage of their property.  Being an indentured servant would not come with this perk...but you would still basically be owned by someone.

[Not logged in]

http://www.zalanthas.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.phpt=1136&highlight=slavery

This is the one twilight was talking about

[My 2 sids]

Sorry about heading off topic.  Spawnloser, I replied here http://www.zalanthas.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=6917

[Anonymous]

http://www.zalanthas.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.phpt=1136&start=15&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=


This one should work.

[Anonymous]

Zalanthan Slavery is not the same as historical slavery
Name of the thread, Look it up, Twilight.. you owe me one.

[Twilight]

Hi Guest, while that was a great topic (almost exactly 1 year ago!), the posts I am thinking about would have mentioned relative population figures, and been made I think somewhere between 3-5 years ago.  On a GDB (grrrrr) I can't seem to find to post a link.

[spawnloser]

So...that thread didn't have an IMM posting what the relative population of slaves.  Let's keep arguing! :roll: