Armageddon exit interviews...

[staggerlee]

Today I got my form-letter Armageddon exit interview email. Wow, I must have quit!  The exit interview/summary was a cool idea, but my strongest thought as I wrote a response was "Hell, I I'm not even humoring the idea of going back anymore."

At this point most posts like this would take the following format: I'd share my concerns about the game, lament its downfall and cry and wail and gnash my teeth. I don't see the need for that, my concerns about the game have been heard a hundred times, and I compiled my reasons for leaving and sent them to staff. Anyway, hey, I'm not bitter about anything, I just drifted away. So there's no sense to that.

Instead I have a question:

Of all of the things to do in the world, what is it about this game that compels you to dedicate your time to it? What keeps you logging in?

[Chettaman]

You're awesome for this, staggerlee.

My lack of need to do anything else.
Sad. I know.
I might have to take a break also... maybe.

[Gimfalisette]

-- Free
-- Compelling roleplay with fascinating PCs, every so often
-- Sort of fulfills my sandbox-game need
-- Sort of fulfills my making-a-positive-leadership-contribution need
-- Sort of fulfills my strategic-gaming need

For comparison, my other favorite games ever are:
-- Star Wars Galaxies, which was intensely sandbox-y, and somewhat roleplay-y, and I got to play the leader role
-- The Sims, intensely sandbox-y, somewhat strategic, somewhat leader-y from stuff I did in the community
-- Civilization, strategic

[Gunnerblaster]

Of all of the things to do in the world, what is it about this game that compels you to dedicate your time to it? What keeps you logging in?

Not only is Armageddon one of the few things I really derive some joy from, but I also feel like I'm letting players down on an OOC-level if I fail to do my best for them, in-game.

I like trying to be the guy that people can ICly and OOCly rely on.

[janeshephard]

I don't understand, if you don't log in for a while you get an email asking you why?

[staggerlee]

I don't understand, if you don't log in for a while you get an email asking you why?

Well actually, I was just trying to make it sound good.  Vanth phoned me and sobbed on the phone for four hours last night. And judging from the messages on my answering machine today Shalooonsh is being sent to slash my tires.

[Conspiracy Theory]

Mostly it's an excellent, involving, deep time waster that fulfills my creative needs by letting me shape my characters. That's my foremost concern in playing, most often - making a deep, entertaining character.

[Vanth]

I don't understand, if you don't log in for a while you get an email asking you why?

Well actually, I was just trying to make it sound good.  Vanth phoned me and sobbed on the phone for four hours last night. And judging from the messages on my answering machine today Shalooonsh is being sent to slash my tires.

Why don't you love me anymore?  WHY?

[Vanth]

But seriously.  Yes, every once in awhile we grab a list of folks' emails from the GDB, who haven't logged into the GDB in awhile (the basic thought is that if you made a GDB account, you were at least somewhat invested in the game at some point).  We send them an email asking if they left for any particular reason, and let them know what's new.  This time we also pimped an upcoming in-game event, Luirsfest.

[AreteX]

I keep coming back for the POTENTIAL.

I've had fun experiences with characters that didn't last very long, and I've had fun experiences with characters that lasted a decent amount of time.  I've developed interesting relationships, had some weird things happen(MINDWORMZ!).

For me mudding was always great, I used to play PK muds from a certain Codebase all the time(Emlen).  The thrill of the hunt, and possibly losing your equipment(when you died, it wasnt permadeath, but you lost EVERYTHING you owned).

Now, I have that in a roleplay sense, and even stricter with permadeath.  I really think this is the best possible place to try and roleplay anything because it MATTERS what you do in the world.  I caused ripples with a character(at least I think) and its amazing to think what WAVES I could cause in the future.

Potential, its free, its interesting, its unexplored(for me) and I love it.

[solera]

"What is it about the game that compels you to...."
Oh man! Where do I start...
I guess it is letting the creative urge loose, an alternative to writing, a step up from making stories in my head when I was sent to bed early as a kid.
But there's the twist...I'm not in control of the story, and its not my story.  I just get swept up with all the others.
And I like wandering and gathering in the wilds. 
And the pathos of pointless deaths. 
The patterns our stories weave and traces of themes that emerge. In retrospect , I love the spiral pattern of new life and death a past character traced in the sands.
Maybe if I played 8 hours a day it would be less compelling than when I only get sips and tastes.

I got a letter too, I guess because I changed GBD handles. 

[Shalooonsh]

I don't understand, if you don't log in for a while you get an email asking you why?

Well actually, I was just trying to make it sound good.  Vanth phoned me and sobbed on the phone for four hours last night. And judging from the messages on my answering machine today Shalooonsh is being sent to slash my tires.

While I appreciate your want to be able to drive, installing runflats and ruining my favorite switchblade are not the best ways to score brownie points.  Jerk.

[Kryos]

You hear some people making it sound like some sort of gigantic shitstorm is swirling ig when you read their posts about this that or the other thing players do/do not do.  The truth is, every time I log into Arm, I have a good time.  Some days, it's a high on life holy crap this is amazing kind of fun, and others its a heart-pulling, tear-jerking, shaking your fist at the heavens sort of time.  Either way, it ends up being a rush.

No matter what activity you choose to take up, if you are passionate about it, you will come to disagreements with others who participate in it as well.  If you let this cloud your judgment and taint your enjoyment of what you do, perhaps it is time to move on indeed, as that typically causes you to become destructive to what you enjoy.

[Aaron Goulet]

For comparison, my other favorite games ever are:
-- Star Wars Galaxies, which was intensely sandbox-y, and somewhat roleplay-y, and I got to play the leader role
-- The Sims, intensely sandbox-y, somewhat strategic, somewhat leader-y from stuff I did in the community
-- Civilization, strategic

We used to play ALL the same games. 

[Zoltan]

You hear some people making it sound like some sort of gigantic shitstorm is swirling ig when you read their posts about this that or the other thing players do/do not do.  The truth is, every time I log into Arm, I have a good time.  Some days, it's a high on life holy crap this is amazing kind of fun, and others its a heart-pulling, tear-jerking, shaking your fist at the heavens sort of time.  Either way, it ends up being a rush.

No matter what activity you choose to take up, if you are passionate about it, you will come to disagreements with others who participate in it as well.  If you let this cloud your judgment and taint your enjoyment of what you do, perhaps it is time to move on indeed, as that typically causes you to become destructive to what you enjoy.

I couldn't have said any of this any better myself. I can't think of any time that I logged on and didn't have fun at all. It's the type of game that the more you put in, the more you enjoy it (usually). The day I stop playing Arm is the day I can't afford the time/energy for it.

[Cutthroat]

I like to have fun. I also like to contribute to The Whole Story, in some small way.

[Pale Horse]

Chopping motherfukerz up with bone swords.










....and the social role-playing.  I got the exploring and all that urge out of my system with my first many characters.  Now, I love the plots and digging in.

[Rhyden]

Great post, staggerlee.

I've often thought of leaving the game myself, even if just temporarily. Sometimes it's healthy to take a break, snap back to reality, and remind yourself that this is just a text-based role-playing game, and losing our characters isn't the end of the world. I think the biggest emotional stress we as players face is the death of our most beloved characters.  I believe this is the biggest factor that drives players away because they can't deal with the stress of loss. The easiest way to get around this, for me personally, is by realizing at hour 1 that this character is going to die. Every character we make might as well be a ticking time bomb, with an expiry date stuck to the back of their heads. I've learned how to cherish my character's life and the short time they are allowed to live, instead of focusing so heavily on the end results (as shitty as they may be).

[Ampere]

tbh it allows me to explore facets of myself that are normally relegated to some arboreal node at the back of my brain...I also like killing people, and finding treasure.

[Fathi]

I don't really have a whole lot to say other than I'm kind of in the same boat as you, Staggerlee. I still enjoy the game when I do play it, but I don't have as much free time to do so as I used to, and that's started a bit of a snowball effect that makes me want to log in less and less. Most of the game's roles don't accommodate casual players very well, and the playerbase can be downright nasty to you about it, all of which culminates into "if I can't devote a lot of time to Arm, it's better to just not play."

[Thunkkin]

Why do I come back after a hiatus?

Because the stories stick with me.
Because I can go for months without thinking about Zalanthas and then, suddenly, something will bring it to my mind and I'll realize that I miss it.
Because if I play any other game, I end up feeling bored because the stakes are always so low and the choices are so constrained.
Because I like the idea of chopping mutha-fuckaz with bone swords, even though my characters are always cautious and wimpy.

[number13]

I've been reading forums, playing in a different RPI. Ironically, five email messages above my "Congratulations! [character name] has been approved for play at Armageddon MUD!" is the message Staggerlee received.

My return-from-hiatus impressions:

1) I'm seeing nearly zero PCs off-peak, and a couple handfuls spread across a city-state at peak.  I've been logging on in 10 minute spurts, roaming about to confirm that not much of anyone is around, and then logging.  I know where they might be... in the other city-state, locked up in a private or clan area, doing the same log-in/log-out spurts that I am, out being tribals in the desert.  But I'm not seeing them, so the willpower to continue is fading.   One doesn't walk into a city-state role expecting it to be solo roleplay.

I'll most likely keep trying with the character, at least for a few more days, because I know arm's population migrates in cycles, and Sunday/Monday tends to be busier. It's just pretty discouraging, and it makes me feel a little guilty for the couple random Internet people I've sent to Arm's website over the past few weeks, talking up the game's RP standard.  If they did get as far as logging on to the city-state I suggested, then what? Nothing. No one to RP with.

Player base does need some serious consolidation, on the order of nuking a city-state and the majority of tribes (in particular, isolated tribes).  I know it sounds drastic to the point of sarcasm or hyperbole, but that really is the quantity of demolition I believe would be needed to properly concentrate the existing p.base.

2) There's a need for casual roles that serve meaningful purposes, or are otherwise just simple stupid fun.  There have been times over the past couple of months when I would have very much liked to log on to Arm -- if it didn't mean having to deal with having a PC, and the associated baggage, while still having a defined place in the world -- knowing about plots, participating in plots.

I'm not 100% on how to pull this off, but it would be nice to have the option.

3) The grindmill. If mundane skills advanced at x2 the rate they currently do, it would still be an order of magnitude slower than progression on most modern games. In the time it takes one to get a barely competent warrior (10 days, or 400 hours), you can have all the unlocks for Modern Warfare2 ten times over.  People speed level in WoW to 80th level in 15 hours; a more typical example is closer to 100 hours.

It's related to #2.  If it takes 40 hours to get a pickpocket who can pick pockets, then I'm likely to lose interest prior to being able to enjoy the concept I rolled.  And staring at that 100, 400, 1000 hour climb, it's mentally much easier to fire up Desktop Dungeons or Guild Wars instead and get a half-hour game in. Or troll the forums even, to (sort of) satisfy my Arm itch.

-----------

[racurtne]

I guess I'm just going to have to bite the bullet and be the one to sit in the bars off-peak and wait for people. I'll do it, too. We need off-peak players something serious.

The thing that keeps me logging in is that I know that if I do, that gives others a chance to interact and keeps people playing. If I can do my part to encourage new players and keep the old, then that goes a long way to solving the problems of having no one around with whom to RP. And if that gets solved, little plots or even some novel interaction can give me something memorable to do with my time on Arm.

I keep logging in in the hopes that I'll have a chance to flesh out my character so that when their tragic story ends, I might actually feel something from it. I keep logging in to involve my character in something big when it comes up, to make something meaningful happen for others' characters, to meet and analyze other peoples' characters. I can muse on how my character would view that person, how they would use them, how they would help them, how they would treat them. I simply log in to enjoy taking an active role in a story much bigger than any single character, no matter how small the role may be. I play for a number of reasons, the most important of which is "If I don't play, then I can no longer read this story", and in my opinion, it's a good one.

[janeshephard]

3) The grindmill. If mundane skills advanced at x2 the rate they currently do, it would still be an order of magnitude slower than progression on most modern games. In the time it takes one to get a barely competent warrior (10 days, or 400 hours), you can have all the unlocks for Modern Warfare2 ten times over.  People speed level in WoW to 80th level in 15 hours; a more typical example is closer to 100 hours.

It's related to #2.  If it takes 40 hours to get a pickpocket who can pick pockets, then I'm likely to lose interest prior to being able to enjoy the concept I rolled.  And staring at that 100, 400, 1000 hour climb, it's mentally much easier to fire up Desktop Dungeons or Guild Wars instead and get a half-hour game in. Or troll the forums even, to (sort of) satisfy my Arm itch.

Muds are grindy. I don't mind this with useful skills. I do have an issue when my -contact- skill takes days for it to get half decent.

[Yam]

Armageddon let's me act out all of my best fantasies without being a pariah. Or inmate.

Or cannibal.

[Ktavialt]

I can answer the OP by stating why I don't log in anymore.

It takes too much time out of my life.  This is not a game that you can casually play, or at least not a game that I can casually play without getting hooked onto a character and playing more than I should thereby harming my real life pursuits.

It would be neat if there was an option for certain people to animate something like a gortok and play it "realistically" and not in a "see how many PCs I can kill" way.  It would be something you wouldn't get too attached to, would die anyways, but that you can nick around for 20 minutes here and there every week, hopefully making the environment come to life for passersby.

[spawnloser]

Special app, Ktavialt.  You never know until you try.

[number13]

Special app...

Waiting weeks, burning a spec app, and wasting staff time on a role that one doesn't suspect will last an hour isn't ideal.

For casual flavor roles, I'm imagining an option in the log in menu -- Play an NPC -- with a list of standards, some of which are constrained by karma, and maybe a few staff required roles for specific plots.  For example, if there's a Byn contract to clear out some raiders, options appear to play as Runner RedShirt or Raider Joe.

[Kryos]

This isn't a jab, but is entirely serious.  Armageddon isn't about improving your character's skills.

[RogueGunslinger]

This isn't a jab, but is entirely serious.  Armageddon isn't about improving your character's skills.

Try not to dictate the reasons why others play. We all have our reasons wide and varied, and there seems to be this wide-spread idea that advancing your characters skills for the sake of wanting to play someone with better skills is wrong. It's not. It's perfectly okay to OOCly advance your character just for advancing sake, as long as you're staying in character while doing it.

Armageddon is "about" doing whatever you think is fun while adhering to the documentation. You can have a mindset of bettering the game and roleplay, but still really only play it for the coded advancement.

There is nothing wrong with playing the game in order to become a badass codedly, or to grind your skills up. There is nothing wrong with playing the game with an achiever, coded mindset.

Just do it with documentation in mind and don't play unrealistically.

[A Dry, Quiet War]

This isn't a jab, but is entirely serious.  Armageddon isn't about improving your character's skills.

There is a serious measure of truth in this.  But if it were entirely true, new characters would enter the game at a variety of skill levels, not (almost) always at Level 1 Newbie.

Armageddon is half about telling a beautiful, terrible, desperate, gripping story together, and half about wynning.

[Jingo]

It's nice having super badass characters.

But then again it's also fun playing a character that is based that bearded hobo that twitches oddly and talks to himself while sitting next to you on the bus and you wish, just wish he gets off at the next stop.

[number13]

This isn't a jab, but is entirely serious.  Armageddon isn't about improving your character's skills.

I agree.  Skill progression can be super slow, or nonexistent for all I care.  What I really want is to be able to enter the game able to perform the functions of my role without grinding first.  A ranger who can skin a carcass without a dozen failures between successes, a climber who isn't likely to break his neck on his first outing, a merchant/physician who doesn't have to use up 10 bolts of cloth before making his first bandage.

[solera]

My return-from-hiatus impressions:

1) I'm seeing nearly zero PCs off-peak, and a couple handfuls spread across a city-state at peak.  I've been logging on in 10 minute spurts, roaming about to confirm that not much of anyone is around, and then logging.  I know where they might be... in the other city-state, locked up in a private or clan area, doing the same log-in/log-out spurts that I am, out being tribals in the desert.  But I'm not seeing them, so the willpower to continue is fading.   One doesn't walk into a city-state role expecting it to be solo roleplay.

I'll most likely keep trying with the character, at least for a few more days, because I know arm's population migrates in cycles, and Sunday/Monday tends to be busier. It's just pretty discouraging, and it makes me feel a little guilty for the couple random Internet people I've sent to Arm's website over the past few weeks, talking up the game's RP standard.  If they did get as far as logging on to the city-state I suggested, then what? Nothing. No one to RP with.

-----------

Just my few sids about managing off-peak play... yeah, establishing social contacts is as slow as skilling up...all takes a lot of patience.

Do your day job (hunting , grebbing, crafting, sekret stuff, and regularly (RT) idle at the taverns.  (When its storming outside, more likely to have company too.) So that makes one PC available.
If you join a clan or a group, you are more likely to find another off peak PC compatible with you.  And those able to play all hours are more likely to log in to catch you. OK, compared with them, you are pretty unskilled, but then they will be dead, and you won't be.

For a while I pretended to be an Oblivion style NPC when I only had half an hour to play with.  I had my schedule of grebbing in a certain place with regular trips to town.  I just aimed to be part of the scenery while my own internal story was happening.

I guess that style of play doesn't suit anyone.  I really feel for you guys that are limited too much by circumstances.

[Jdr]

I love being able to terrify people into pants-crapping levels, at least ICly, all the while never having killed a single person before as this character.

I love logging in knowing today could be my last.

I love logging in and being able to terrify people into pants-crapping levels, because today could be THEIR last, and I love to make them know it and feel the rush.

[LittleLostThief]

Great post, staggerlee.

losing [something] isn't the end of the world

biggest emotional stress we face is death of our most beloved

can't deal with the stress of loss

realizing [everyone] is going to die

we might as well be a ticking time bomb, with an expiry date stuck to the back of [our] heads

learn how to cherish life and the short time [we/they] are allowed to live, instead of focusing so heavily on the end results (as shitty as they may be)

I can't begin to recount the number of lessons I've learned from Armageddon that are applicable to both it and life.

Usually I approach Armageddon with a very zen-like approach.  Whatever is, is.  You can't change truth or fact, so sometimes you just need to be accepting.

Regardless of how you felt at the beginning of your time with it, life/Armageddon is the same.  Only your perceptions change, but the ultimate truth is infallible.

Did you enjoy yourself along the way?  If you didn't, you wouldn't be reading this right now.

Sometimes it's easier to lament loss than forge the future.  Not everyone is cut out for it.  How will you approach both life and Armageddon?

[askaran]

I love to write, and Armageddon lets me express myself in that regard, Ill be the first to admit I may not be exactly the best rper in the world but I still love it.
Also I love the theme, the other PC's and alot of the NPC's its like being the character in my favourite book. Also, templars are just the coolest

[Saellyn]

Because it makes me cry when I lose chars and scream at people while looking at my screen asking them "HOW COULD YOU DO THIS TO ME!?"
Also because of some of the fun(and weird, and brutal, and... downright creepy, KHORM) people that I've met that make Arm pretty damn interesting. I haven't logged into another MUD for a while now because I've been JUUUUUST a bit too attached to Armageddon and the weird/insane people that like to make me roll my eyes, facepalm, and go "Why do I try to explain the dynamics of 'MEKILLOT DOES EQUAL SAFE FOOD'?"



DISCLAIMER noteverythinginthispostistruewedonotcondonenordowesuggestyoutrytohuntmekillotforfoodthiservicepaidforbyjoeschmo

[burble]

Hey, I got one of those letters recently!

Almost forgot about Armag again... I hadn't played since hmm, mid 90's then played last summer. Let's see - 18 days 18 hours over 37 days realtime up till August '09 for my only good char.. that was a ton of fun. I truly hope all those who I met had as much fun as I did. Not sure I'll play again this summer. Thinking about touring the country on a motorcycle...If I get back in time, I will create a char.

So I did not really "quit" - just know how to deal with my addictions. My char last summer died due to drunk driving not pk (couple of glasses of wine and animal hunting do not mix). But, it was ready to go. Can't play them when they get too emotionally heavy - so many in game friends/plots die that they seem old or something. Makes me feel like I am reading a book that should have ended. Perhaps that is the saddest part about Armag: chars die so often that it is hard to keep a good story going (for me at least).

Anyway, I am sorry for some of your experiences about pk deaths that are meaningless. Personally, I never wanted to end someone else's story. I can close my eyes and see many armag chars I met as easily as I see Deja Thoris or Sun Wukong. I just can't reread them at will like I can with books. On the other hand, I had many characters who were learning experiences - hey I'll try "milk mekillot" or something equally silly.

Enjoy guys, maybe I'll see you this summer. Maybe I didn't quit.. just don't want to follow a good story with a lousy sequel.

[a strange shadow]

I can answer the OP by stating why I don't log in anymore.

It takes too much time out of my life.  This is not a game that you can casually play.

This. It's hard to get a good story going without devoting way too much time to the game. At this point in my life I'd rather just read a book.

[DustMight]

I've just come back after some time off - and I can't say for certain I'll be around for long - we'll see.  I want to, but often I'll log in (off-peak, I work nights and on my nights off like hanging with the wife), can find no one (or few) people to RP with, can not "do" anything (non-crafter) so I end up watching a movie and idling or something.

Then I decide I don't want to sit in front of the computer any more and split.

There are tons of ideas I have about the game, but those are all pretty well documented on the GDB over the years.  A few years ago I tried to play a leader that logged in three days a week - couldn't be done.  And as a follower, logging in once or twice a week doesn't cut it.

[Akaramu]

My return-from-hiatus impressions:

1) I'm seeing nearly zero PCs off-peak, and a couple handfuls spread across a city-state at peak.  I've been logging on in 10 minute spurts, roaming about to confirm that not much of anyone is around, and then logging.  I know where they might be... in the other city-state, locked up in a private or clan area, doing the same log-in/log-out spurts that I am, out being tribals in the desert.  But I'm not seeing them, so the willpower to continue is fading.   One doesn't walk into a city-state role expecting it to be solo roleplay.

I had a very different impression when returning from a hiatus of several years, and I play offpeak as well. The playerbase seems to have increased quite dramatically - in my old days, there were 4 people online total during the most extreme offpeak hours, 20ish during semi-offpeak and 40ish during peak time. Now I see 6-14 during extreme offpeak, 40ish (!) during semi-offpeak and 60+ when I actually get to log in for a peak hour or two.

Depending on where I am, sometimes I cannot believe how many PCs I see gathered in one place during offpeak and semi offpeak, and often I don't even try to find them. Leadery type PCs, even.

I think your problem are the login / logout spurts you mention. If you're just going to stick around for 10 minutes, you would be very lucky to run into someone. People move around, they gather in one place for awhile then go on their way again. If you're doing something that gives you reason to walk around shopping / resource selling centres, stables, and taverns often, you'll bump into people constantly.

Some off-peaker and semi-active player advice:

-Stick around. Don't log off after 10 minutes. Watch a movie in a seperate window if you don't enjoy solo RP.

-After having sticked around long enough often enough, you'll have learned names of people who play during your times, and you can contact (person). If you can't reach them, maybe they are around, but have a barrier up for some reason, and you'll run into them later.

-Play consistent hours, over time people will know when you're likely to log in and look for you then without you needing to find them first.

[slipshod]

But seriously.  Yes, every once in awhile we grab a list of folks' emails from the GDB, who haven't logged into the GDB in awhile (the basic thought is that if you made a GDB account, you were at least somewhat invested in the game at some point).  We send them an email asking if they left for any particular reason, and let them know what's new.  This time we also pimped an upcoming in-game event, Luirsfest.

I just heard on the news that the Catholic Church is doing the same thing.  They have launched a new ad campaign to bring lapsed Catholics back into the fold.  "Maybe you drifted away because of demands at work, or because you had children and started a family..." but now it's time to come back to the Church.  Listening to the report, I just replaced Catholic Church with Armageddonmud, and the commercials made perfect sense. 

No offense intended to any Catholics, who don't want their faith compared to a computer game.  It's just the administrative retention strategy that has the parallel.