In-game Kudos.

[jhunter]

There should be an in-game kudos command that works similar to bug, idea, or typo. You should be able to use "~" to target a character specifically and attach the kudos to their account.

>kudos ~Amos Excellent job showing proper emotion in his situation. Played along with the scene very well even though his character was in peril.

*You send a kudos to the player of the tall, muscular man.*

Whenever this is done a message would not only go to the player of the character but to the staff as well.

[spawnloser]

So the people that ooc-coordinate can spam each other.  I like it.

...

...

In case you couldn't tell, I'd rather the staff supervise this so people don't kudos-bate each other.

[flurry]

I like it, and would like it even more if it allowed for giving kudos to exceptional rooms, objects, NPCs, etc. I proposed a similar idea a few months ago, here: http://www.zalanthas.org/gdb/index.php/topic,36157.0.html .

[Agent Noun]

So the people that ooc-coordinate can spam each other.  I like it.

...

...

In case you couldn't tell, I'd rather the staff supervise this so people don't kudos-bate each other.

I'm certain the staff already know who OOCly coordinates with whom. Kudos-spamming would just make it more obvious.

[Cutthroat]

In case you couldn't tell, I'd rather the staff supervise this so people don't kudos-bate each other.

Whenever this is done a message would not only go to the player of the character but to the staff as well.

The supervision's already allowed for in the original idea.

It would be cool if this idea extended to the bodies of PCs, as well...

[Reiteration]

Kinda need supervision or this will start popping up with new players.
#LOOP 100 ( kudos Malik )

[Cutthroat]

The only problem I actually have with this idea is that the Player Kudos request specifically states what's wrong with "one-liner" kudos, and indeed, this allows us to expand on the kudos and be creative with what we actually want to say. If this kudos thing opened up the IG editor, then sure, an automated kudos system could actually be pretty handy.

With the message being sent to staff as well, they can catch things like kudos Amos * 100, kudos Amos get on at 9PM plz to skillup, or kudos Amos you suck lol, so abuse is essentially a non-issue. Similar to abusing "scribble" or "wish", if a staff member finds you're abusing "kudos", they'll, at the least, disable it for you.

[ianmartin]

Spawnloser has the right of this, WAY too much potential for abuse with people getting their friends recognition that may or not be deserved.

Besides, from what I remember reading, the kudos should be unnecessary as it would be akin to me telling my brother, 'Hey man, good breathing you're doing there'

[jhunter]

I never said anything about it being restricted to one-liners. Opening up the in-game editor would be a fine idea. There is no more potential for abuse than the out of game system, if you can explain to me how, please do so. The benefit is, which I'm sure this happens alot, is that people can immediately send a kudos on the spot without trying to remember the pc's name, without knowing the pc's name. (Good for raiding encounters, etc.) And it allows for them to do it right off instead of thinking it and then not doing it later which I'm sure happens alot. Obviously with the message going to staff as well, they can see when there's some ridiculous shit going on and note player's accounts as necessary.
As I said, there is no more potential for abuse, this would just make it easier to send kudos for players of characters that you may have interacted with for a single scene and do not know.

[Lizzie]

I think if it went only to the staff, who could then forward it to the player (which is how the out-of-game kudos works now) that would solve any concerns of potential abuse.

I think it's a great idea, if you just cut out the part about it automatically going to the player.

[jmordetsky]

So the people that ooc-coordinate can spam each other.  I like it.

In case you couldn't tell, I'd rather the staff supervise this so people don't kudos-bate each other.

So, although it's wrapped up in a big bag of negaton - you do have point.

JHunter - I think this would be a pretty awesome idea as stated, if the kudos went the same route as the request tool kudos. Ie, same approval and delivery process etc. But being able to kudos/bug/idea in game or on website I believe has merrit. If you want to send a quick note: "you rock" in game kudos. If you want to send something with multiple lines, use the request tool. It would be great for me, because I hate the in game editor, but I also hate jumping out of my mud client to the website for small things.

With approval - idea is good.

[Chettaman]

I think it's perfect now. If you really think someone deserves a kudos. You'll take time out of your busy shedule to send them a kudos.
If you -really- want to. because I know how hard it can be to feel like "that guy's awesome. I'm gonna send him a kudos... later." - and never do it.
but if you -really- reeally want to. You'll do it.

but it would be more convenient to have an instant kudos, huh?

[janeshephard]

I think it's perfect now. If you really think someone deserves a kudos. You'll take time out of your busy shedule to send them a kudos.
If you -really- want to. because I know how hard it can be to feel like "that guy's awesome. I'm gonna send him a kudos... later." - and never do it.
but if you -really- reeally want to. You'll do it.

but it would be more convenient to have an instant kudos, huh?

QFT. Fast food kudos doesn't seem like a good idea. Request tool Kudos makes it more special and lets staff review and note on account.

[Twilight]

It would be nice to tag someone this way, which then would show up in the request tool to elaborate on.

I am sure I'm not the only one that has received multiple kudos meant for other players.

[spawnloser]

I prefer the suggestion that an in-game kudos is sent into the request-tool automatically, that staff then have to look it over before forwarding so that it isn't automagickally sent to the player.  If that was the case, I could support this idea 100%.  As it is suggested, I can not.  Sorry.  Good job, Lizzie.

[MarshallDFX]

I prefer the suggestion that an in-game kudos is sent into the request-tool automatically, that staff then have to look it over before forwarding so that it isn't automagickally sent to the player.  If that was the case, I could support this idea 100%.  As it is suggested, I can not.  Sorry.  Good job, Lizzie.

I think this would be good.  Alternately, all kudos go through as a batch over 12 days or something, giving staff time to review them.

[jhunter]

I'd be fine with it going directly to staff instead of to both staff and player but I'm not really sure what difference it makes. It would still be anonymous and as far as I know the staff doesn't look over kudos and -not- pass them on to the player they're intended for. So, if they aren't rejected and not passed along and staff gets to see what is being sent either way, and they are anonymous, I'm not really sure what the objection is exactly.

Spawnloser, perhaps you could elaborate as to what the difference is between it going only to staff first and then on to the player and it going to both staff and player at the same time?

Apparently I'm missing something. *shrugs* Oh, and I do not mean that the player -receives- the kudos in-game. I only mean that it is initiated in-game. It would still be received via mud email. (Just in case that's what the issue is.)

[Reiloth]

Too much coding for not enough payoff or reasoning. I think the system for giving kudos as it stands works just fine, as long as the player provides enough information about the party in question (Name, Sdesc). Also, the ease of doing it in game as opposed to taking time to use the request system allows for both self-regulated quality control and a lack of flooding. If it were truly as easy as >kudos figure That was a really funny line in the conversation we just had...It would diminish the effect of giving/recieving kudos and most likely not allow Staff to use the kudos you recieve when judging you for a sponsored role, karma review, and weigh against bad notes.

[Riev]

I would be a supporter of opening the in-game editor, and having it auto-email to mud@ or whomever handles kudos.

1. When I'm playing Arm, its time to play Arm, and I really have a hard time switching out to the request tool to write a kudos about something.

2. Often times, when I think "That player deserves a kudos", its in the heat of the moment, and I want to get it out there immediately. Similar to bios, I have a hard time writing them unless its something that -just- happened and I seem to have 10 minutes on my hand.

Retorts:

1. I don't think it would be more lending to the people in the OOC channels. If the kudos are not automatically sent to the other person, and still require staff review, this would be systematically no different from what we have now, only we wouldn't need to open up a browser window and go through a 7 step process.

2. In my opinion, making kudos easier and faster to get to as a player doesn't demean the value of the kudos one bit. There are some people, most especially me, who want to send a kudos each day. I even tried, as a way to be more positive, dedicating to sending out one kudos a week with status updates. Never got around to it. This is no fault of other players, who are deserving of the kudos, but rather mine for being lazy. Maybe an easier, faster system would get me to do it, but who knows.



tl;dr

I would support this type of change, but I agree with Reiloth that it may be too much extra coding for a very small benefit.

[Dar]

I like it, and I dont understand the problem. Make the kudos to be simply kudos. Not something that would go on players accounts or ... anywhere really. Just a way for one player to mention to 'another' player that they liked their scene. It does not grant recognition, because it doesnt offer any 'points' or 'karma' or whatever. It's just ... text. So ooc people could coordinate and send each other kudos like that and ... compliment each other to high moon, who cares? If anythig they can do that on msn or whatever.


When you kudos someone, you kudos "them" not the Imms, right? Right ?

[jhunter]

1. When I'm playing Arm, its time to play Arm, and I really have a hard time switching out to the request tool to write a kudos about something.

2. Often times, when I think "That player deserves a kudos", its in the heat of the moment, and I want to get it out there immediately. Similar to bios, I have a hard time writing them unless its something that -just- happened and I seem to have 10 minutes on my hand.

Retorts:

1. I don't think it would be more lending to the people in the OOC channels. If the kudos are not automatically sent to the other person, and still require staff review, this would be systematically no different from what we have now, only we wouldn't need to open up a browser window and go through a 7 step process.

2. In my opinion, making kudos easier and faster to get to as a player doesn't demean the value of the kudos one bit. There are some people, most especially me, who want to send a kudos each day. I even tried, as a way to be more positive, dedicating to sending out one kudos a week with status updates. Never got around to it. This is no fault of other players, who are deserving of the kudos, but rather mine for being lazy. Maybe an easier, faster system would get me to do it, but who knows.

These are exactly the reasons why I suggested it. I don't think I've ever sent a kudos to anyone even though quite a few players I've played with deserved it. Usually, when I log out of the game I check out the GDB or I'm done with Arm for the time being and don't want to stretch it out before moving on to other things. Had there been a way to send them along while I was logged in for "Arm time" then I would have probably sent out quite a few. But my "Arm time" consists of logged in time and GDB time. I'd like for request time to fit into "Arm time" so at the time it occurs to me that someone is playing very well, to the point that I truly appreciate it, I can spend some of the slow time after such experiences to send my kudos from within the game before I log out and am done with "Arm time".

[Morgenes]

From a staff perspective, a lot of the work behind kudos is in finding the person who the kudos is for, so in my mind this would help.  However, I question how useful it would be as outlined.  How often do you stop mid-scene and go, you know what, let me take 5 minutes and write up a kudos to someone and let them go on with out me?  This would require some kind of 'marker' system where you say 'I'd like to give Amos here a kudos later', and then when you have time you can review the list of people you said you want to send kudos to.  In my mind it would still have to go to the request tool for staff approval and delivery, so you guys are dead on there.

So while I think this would help staff help you guys, the work to add the 'marker' system would be a bit higher than just letting them enter the kudos mid-scene.  Not saying it won't happen (or that it will) but from a staff perspective it'd be nice to have this.

[mansa]

In my opinion, there isn't enough space in the game buffer to write about why you liked the scene, within the game engine.

What might be better is to have a token system get created, exactly as Morgenes mentioned.

[jhunter]

So it would have to work something like this?

While the character is present:

>kudos amos

You've added Amos to your Kudos queue.

Later on, when the scene is over:

>kudos

Your list of kudos to write and send are:

1. Amos

>kudos 1

Then the text editor would open up for you to write the kudos for the targetted character and once completed would be passed on and out of your queue.

[Delstro]

Why does the kudos have to go to the person? It should be treated as all others are treated. Sent to staff, editted for IC info, then forwarded into oblivion.

[spawnloser]

Why does the kudos have to go to the person? It should be treated as all others are treated. Sent to staff, editted for IC info, then forwarded into oblivion.

The emphasis highlights why it should never go directly to the player, jhunter.

[Synthesis]

What's the difference between:

> kudo amos Hey dude, gj.  Meet again tomorrow night. btw I'm a sorc, not a ranger, lol!

and

> ooc Hey dude, gj.  Meet again tomorrow night. btw I'm a sorc, not a ranger, lol!

[Riev]

What's the difference between:

> kudo amos Hey dude, gj.  Meet again tomorrow night. btw I'm a sorc, not a ranger, lol!

and

> ooc Hey dude, gj.  Meet again tomorrow night. btw I'm a sorc, not a ranger, lol!

The difference is, as I believe is being suggested, that the kudo command would still be sent into a staff-controlled Kudos queue where they can look it over, scrub and send it off. Whereas with OOC it goes directly to the other player.

I have a hard time believing anyone would seriously be suggesting a Kudos system where the staff has no hand in it, because as was stated earlier you could always just use an Instant Messaging program and it'd achieve the same thing. The current Kudos system has a great flow to it, but it seems that for some, it'd be much easier and more effective to use an in-game system where you would have the option of targeting a specific player to be tagged with it.

As Morgenes said, it'd require some sort of a token system, where it would have to save the targetted person until you could write the kudos, but man if I could just Kudos Amos, and then later Kudos Add 1 or what have you when the scene is over, I would MOST LIKELY send more deserving kudos.

[Rhyden]

I think it's perfect now. If you really think someone deserves a kudos. You'll take time out of your busy shedule to send them a kudos.
If you -really- want to. because I know how hard it can be to feel like "that guy's awesome. I'm gonna send him a kudos... later." - and never do it.
but if you -really- reeally want to. You'll do it.

These are my feelings on the subject.

Also, if an in-game kudos system were coded, it would create another ooc distraction. I prefer keeping ooc stuff out of the game, although a few commands are necessary (like the ooc command, bug, typo, etc.) for coordination and smoothness, though they still deter from rp, in my opinion.

[Mudder]

I like the idea Jhunter! Often when I want to send  a kudos to someone, I find myself forgetting all about it once I log off.
And by some slim chance I do remember, a day or two later. Well, Im just like meh. I don't feel like sending it now. Im lazy, I know.
But if you do not catch me at THAT particular time wanting to do something, good chances I will surely not do it later.

[number13]

. It would still be anonymous and as far as I know the staff doesn't look over kudos and -not- pass them on to the player they're intended for.

That happened to me once. I don't have the data to suggest a ratio, but kudos can be and occasionally are rejected.

Playing the devil's advocate --  If kudos were much easier to send, would people have more expectation of receiving them?  Might middling role-players (like me!) feel a copious butt-hurt over not receiving a perceived minimum supply of "good job!" and e-hugs?

[janeshephard]

. It would still be anonymous and as far as I know the staff doesn't look over kudos and -not- pass them on to the player they're intended for.

That happened to me once. I don't have the data to suggest a ratio, but kudos can be and occasionally are rejected.

Kudos does get rejected if its too specific or if its about something not remarkable. That's the two rejection reasons I've seen in the past.

[Synthesis]

What's the difference between:

> kudo amos Hey dude, gj.  Meet again tomorrow night. btw I'm a sorc, not a ranger, lol!

and

> ooc Hey dude, gj.  Meet again tomorrow night. btw I'm a sorc, not a ranger, lol!

The difference is, as I believe is being suggested, that the kudo command would still be sent into a staff-controlled Kudos queue where they can look it over, scrub and send it off. Whereas with OOC it goes directly to the other player.

I have a hard time believing anyone would seriously be suggesting a Kudos system where the staff has no hand in it, because as was stated earlier you could always just use an Instant Messaging program and it'd achieve the same thing. The current Kudos system has a great flow to it, but it seems that for some, it'd be much easier and more effective to use an in-game system where you would have the option of targeting a specific player to be tagged with it.

As Morgenes said, it'd require some sort of a token system, where it would have to save the targetted person until you could write the kudos, but man if I could just Kudos Amos, and then later Kudos Add 1 or what have you when the scene is over, I would MOST LIKELY send more deserving kudos.

My point is:  any IC information that could be passed via an in-game kudos command could be passed using the OOC coomand, or the emote command, or the say command, or the tell command, or the whisper command, for that matter.

I don't see what the big fucking deal is about sending kudos without Staff looking over them first.  It's not like you get karma or anything other than a warm fuzzy for receiving them.  Sure, some people could be dicks and do something like:

> kudo amos Hey, nice job today. Not. You fucking douchebag.

But again, the same thing can be accomplished by:

> ooc Hey, fuck you Amos, you fucking douchebag.

So far I haven't seen a compelling reason why being able to give someone a quick "attaboy" is a bad idea.

[jhunter]

What's the difference between:

> kudo amos Hey dude, gj.  Meet again tomorrow night. btw I'm a sorc, not a ranger, lol!

and

> ooc Hey dude, gj.  Meet again tomorrow night. btw I'm a sorc, not a ranger, lol!

The difference is, as I believe is being suggested, that the kudo command would still be sent into a staff-controlled Kudos queue where they can look it over, scrub and send it off. Whereas with OOC it goes directly to the other player.

I have a hard time believing anyone would seriously be suggesting a Kudos system where the staff has no hand in it, because as was stated earlier you could always just use an Instant Messaging program and it'd achieve the same thing. The current Kudos system has a great flow to it, but it seems that for some, it'd be much easier and more effective to use an in-game system where you would have the option of targeting a specific player to be tagged with it.

As Morgenes said, it'd require some sort of a token system, where it would have to save the targetted person until you could write the kudos, but man if I could just Kudos Amos, and then later Kudos Add 1 or what have you when the scene is over, I would MOST LIKELY send more deserving kudos.

My point is:  any IC information that could be passed via an in-game kudos command could be passed using the OOC coomand, or the emote command, or the say command, or the tell command, or the whisper command, for that matter.

I don't see what the big fucking deal is about sending kudos without Staff looking over them first.  It's not like you get karma or anything other than a warm fuzzy for receiving them.  Sure, some people could be dicks and do something like:

> kudo amos Hey, nice job today. Not. You fucking douchebag.

But again, the same thing can be accomplished by:

> ooc Hey, fuck you Amos, you fucking douchebag.

So far I haven't seen a compelling reason why being able to give someone a quick "attaboy" is a bad idea.

My thoughts exactly. It would have no more potential for abuse than alot of other things in the game. The difference is, it would automatically go to the staff and you -will- get caught and suffer the consequences for doing so.

We could have concrete rules in place like the GDB stuff. First offense, a warning. Second offense, temporary ban and forced storage of the current character. etc.

[Lizzie]

I don't understand why anyone has a problem with the idea that a kudos command send word to the staff, the same way it does now, except that the command is done in-game instead of through the website. Why would this be a BAD thing? Why do you object so strongly against it?

[Marc]

Degrading the current value of kudos.  If the entire point is to give warm-fuzzies, then an in-game command is perfect.  It -might- turn into a post-game handshake and people just get in the habit of sending a "Nice job, was fun" kudos after every interaction much like some are conditioned to vote every single day.  This -might- happen.

If the point is to give a shout-out for exceptional rp:

I really dig the idea of a way to mark a PC and later go back and kudos via a web app.  Have to be done in a way that people can't use it to store sdesc or anything stupid.  This has a risk for dilution too.  It is also a more deliberate act.

[MarshallDFX]

I do feel that it would be an improvement if it was not instantaneous.  They go in batches on some interval, which limits how much you can identify the character who sent it to you.

I mean, even with the current system you can still make some good guesses, but still.  A little bit of anonymity in kudos makes it nicer, I think.

[spawnloser]

The other difference, Synthesis, is that Kudos are kept as part of the player's permanent record.  OOC is not.  Also, OOC is used in game for communication.  I would assume that the person getting Kudos in game isn't seeing the message immediately.

[Saellyn]

Also, if staff see somebody go OOC  LOL nice job OBTW I'm a Nilazi

Staff is gonna gank the Nilazi -realllllly- hard. Maybe.  I'm pretty sure somebodies Karma will go "WAH WAH WAAAAAAAAAAAH"

[Sinna]

An in-game command for kudos should send a brief (tdesc size) email (after opening the editor) to the targeted character's account while cc'ing the appropriate staff email for review.

I've wanted to give kudos to someone's player and couldn't remember their ldesc and never knew their name and when emailing staff like this have had it said "we need more to go on to find the character." 

I would so use this command.

A yousuck command would be interesting too, but I doubt I could keep up on the spam in my email.