Feature request: where is everyone?

[parham]

Hi there,
I was thinking of a mush-like WHERE command which basically tells you where everyone (who wants their location to be known) is. That way, you could always go to that person to RP with.

One of the valid points on this, is that it will take the fun out of the game to just go bingo! and find a guy you were looking for. However, it is quite useful for those who are in a weird timezone and there are not many players online at the times they are around (like me, of course).

Any better ideas?

[Lizzie]

What that kind of command encourages, is people who normally -wouldn't- go to a location, to go there anyway. It sort of encourages people to roleplay their characters in a manner that their characters aren't intended to be roleplayed, by going somewhere simply because they might interact with someone their characters wouldn't necessarily want to interact with, simply because they're there.

A lot of Armageddon roleplay ends up being solo RP. This isn't just off-peak time - often I've been in a "usually populated area" for as much as a RL hour, without running into a single PC. And that's at peak time. It comes and goes in waves..and don't forget, by the time you -get- to the location your "where" shows you could find people, all those people might've gone somewhere else. And then you spend the next hour playing "chase the crowd."

People congregate at bars in each city and outpost of the game, and at their clan halls. People who are in clans, often have schedules to work with, or clanmates they do projects with, and will often leave the bar, to do those schedules or projects. So a "where" command wouldn't be of much use anyway, even if it was implemented. Because, if all those clan people are in their clan halls, your character isn't invited anyway.

Just try the bars. For Allanak, you'd know the most likely place to find other commoner people is either the Gaj and the Gladiator, or Red's Retreat. In Tuluk, it's usually the Firestorm, and sometimes the Tembo's Tooth. Each of the other areas of the game only have one bar to hang out in so you'd just have to find that place and you'll be where people congregate, when they're there.

[Agent Noun]

I think the best possible implementation for a command like this--and I'm not saying it should be implemented at all, just saying that this would be the best way--would be to have the "who" command display how many people are in your area.

So, you type who, and it says there are 25 characters currently in the world. If you're currently in Allanak, it'll tell you that 10 of them are in your area. If you're in the Tablelands, maybe it says 5 of them are in your area. It doesn't tell you where individuals are, or where the most players are outside of your area. For what little it's worth, I'd support an implementation like that. A full-featured "where" command, though, I can't see happening, nor would I really want it.

[Lizzie]

The problem with that AgentNoun, is this - fairly typical situation:

>Edge of the Tablelands, Random Room #47
There are lands, with tables, and critters, and stuff.

who
There are only 2 people here besides yourself.
There are 87 people in the world, besides yourself.

think Fuck that, it'll take me 3 hours to find those two people and I gotta get to work in an hour.

quit

From the west, 20 PCs, led by a templar and including 6 Bynners, 4 Tor Scorpions, and several random indie mercs, have arrived from the north.

This doesn't happen every day, but it -does- happen enough, that people would miss out on all kinds of stuff and think nothing interesting happens, just because the -moment- they typed "who" only 2 people were in their area.

And if they had just not typed Who and gotten disappointed, or waited 10 minutes, they would've had a blast, and all those 20 other PCs would've had someone fun to kill. Or some nice boots to steal. Or some magicks to run away from. You deprive them and yourself of this, all because you only saw "2" in the who list at that particular moment, in your area.

[Agent Noun]

Lizzie, you have a very good point, and I've definitely heard that argument before. I'd wager that a similar situation could happen anyway, at least with a player impatient enough to do that in the first place. If a player is willing to log off after knowing that there aren't a ton of players in his area, he's probably just as willing to log off after a relatively short amount of solo-RP while encountering nobody else. I'm willing to admit that I'm pretty impatient like that, and I'd be really surprised if I was the only one.

Still, the more I think about it, the more it seems like a fairly useless feature.

[LauraMars]

Some clans used to have a feature called "who c."  If you were a member of one of these clans, typing "who c" would tell you how many people were online in your clan at that time.  However, staff removed this feature quite some time ago, which suggests to me that they are moving away from this sort of thing, and not towards it.

[Agent Noun]

Some clans used to have a feature called "who c."  If you were a member of one of these clans, typing "who c" would tell you how many people were online in your clan at that time.  However, staff removed this feature quite some time ago, which suggests to me that they are moving away from this sort of thing, and not towards it.

I'm still of the belief that every clan should've been given "who c," rather than every clan losing it. I know, I know, it's been argued to hell and back, but I've always been willing to handwave it as pretty much the exact same thing as sitting around trying to contact everyone in your clan for a while, it just took less time and didn't cost stun. If I'm not mistaken, having a barrier up also prevented you from appearing on a "who c," right? That's even more justification for it being considered a "mass contact" sort of ability using the Way.

> emote uselessly waves a "Bring Back Who C" banner.

[Reiteration]

This is strongly going against Armageddon's ideals. One of the strongest mottos i've seen in armageddon is 'Find Out IC'. You should NEVER expect to have IC information handed to you by OOC means. Go roleplay with the NPCs if you're lonely.

[FantasyWriter]

I'm against using OOCly gained information to affect the RP of your character (even something as simple as going to the bar because you know there are a dozen people in Tuluk and that's where you think they are.)

[parham]

Ah. Thank you all for your responses. I quite get the point now.

Getting the point, however, brings a question into mind: what is solo RP? I mean, yeah, I know it means RPing yourself, but how is that done? Any guides/articles/opinions/anything would be welcome. *smiles*

[Lizzie]

who .c didn't just tell you how many in your clan were logged in, it also told you who they were. This makes things very difficult for "secret" clannies that the clan doesn't want you to know about. Also, it doesn't even address the problem of people who aren't in a clan, or people who are in one clan, looking for people in a different clan.

There exists clan boards with roll-call threads, and there exists the Way. It's great practice when you -think- you're alone, to try and *contact* the people in your clan over the Way, looking for interaction, looking to report in, looking for an assignment, looking for barracks mudsex, whatever else. If you're not in a clan, who .c wouldn't help you anyway.

[janeshephard]

Some clans used to have a feature called "who c."  If you were a member of one of these clans, typing "who c" would tell you how many people were online in your clan at that time.  However, staff removed this feature quite some time ago, which suggests to me that they are moving away from this sort of thing, and not towards it.

Because people would log, "who c" see no one and log out. Fewer players stuck around.

[Reiteration]

Ah. Thank you all for your responses. I quite get the point now.

Getting the point, however, brings a question into mind: what is solo RP? I mean, yeah, I know it means RPing yourself, but how is that done? Any guides/articles/opinions/anything would be welcome. *smiles*

Just because you're alone doesn't mean you cannot RP. Try using the think command and go do something fun or rewarding. Or go clean shit in the stables.

[FantasyWriter]

Any guides/articles/opinions/anything would be welcome. *smiles*

http://www.zalanthas.org/gdb/index.php/topic,31184.0.html

[jmordetsky]

I say no. But solo RP sucks.

Make a list of every you know, find their minds.

[Chettaman]

I say no. But solo RP sucks.

Make a list of every you know, find their minds.

You're missin' out, man. Maybe your character just thinks and feels really boring.
I like to think about stuff that happened before he was being mind-bended by me. And feel silly things like, "feel like fuckin' shit up." usually after smokin' some spice. Or... "feel like punchin' that stupid bastard in the nose." usually after getting bitched at by a superior.
>think (like punchin' that guy in the nose) I could punch that guy in the nose...
>think (like choppin' that muthafucka up with my bonesword instead) Or maybe I could chop that muthafucka up with my bonesword instead.

These are the things that confuse me OOCly. The things that askew the real... from the Armageddon.

[FantasyWriter]

I say no. But solo RP sucks.

Make a list of every you know, find their minds.

I love solo RP... sometimes more than being involved with others.

[Niamh]

Who c was removed some time ago, because it simply isn't realistic for an individual to automagickally know which people in their clans are "up and about" (read: logged in).  This is why there is no feature in the game that tells who is logged in and where they are.  The focus is to bring more realism into the game, to promote more realistic roleplay.

[mansa]

I would like a command that would tell me how many people are in the same section of the world as me, if it was split like this:

Allanak + Labyrinth + Red Storm + Silt Sea + Desert Outside of Allanak + Mal Krian Ruins
Tuluk + Grasslands + Grey Forest + Scrublands
Luirs Outpost + Red Desert + Tablelands + Mantis Valley.

That's aboot it.

[Niamh]

But how would your character know this?

[Ampere]

Who c was removed some time ago, because it simply isn't realistic for an individual to automagickally know which people in their clans are "up and about" (read: logged in).  This is why there is no feature in the game that tells who is logged in and where they are.  The focus is to bring more realism into the game, to promote more realistic roleplay.

The problem here is that it's an ooc problem, and you're trying to resolve ic.  The removal, as opposed to the expansion of who c, has simply lead people to spam contact their friends every time they log on.  Something I find far more absurd than knowing your tribemate left on a hunt earlier in the day, your lover went on a shopping trip, and your brother's asleep.  This is what who c was to me: an entirely functional solution to the ooc reality that we're playing a game.

But c'est la vie.

[brytta.leofa]

Who c was removed some time ago, because it simply isn't realistic for an individual to automagickally know which people in their clans are "up and about" (read: logged in).

The problem here is that it's an ooc problem, and you're trying to resolve ic.

This.  Niamh, I just don't grok the Argument from Idealism here.  Realistically, characters would be real people and never log out.  Practically, trying to figure out who's online is one of the first things many players will do upon logging in, whether it happens with contact or who.

Though I'm growing agnostic about whether removing who -c was a bad thing.  If we wanted to address player density problems, there are probably better ways to do it.

[Salt Merchant]

The game does seem underpopulated these days.

I've been wondering if the staff implementation of 'who' would show a summary something like this, of late:

83 player characters are online.
There are 5 people in Allanak.
There are 6 people in Tuluk.
There are 2 people in Red Storm.
There are 72 people on some Krath-forsaken island out on the Silt Sea, without a skimmer.

[Xeran Van Houten]

The game does seem underpopulated these days.

I've been wondering if the staff implementation of 'who' would show a summary something like this, of late:

83 player characters are online.
There are 5 people in Allanak.
There are 6 people in Tuluk.
There are 2 people in Red Storm.
There are 72 people on some Krath-forsaken island out on the Silt Sea, without a skimmer mudsexxing.

Fixed. ^_~

I don't know... It would help, but people are going to log on, see it, then if they're one of those people in the cities, they'll just log rather than try to find someone.

[mansa]

But how would your character know this?

Your character doesn't know it, just like it doesn't know 'Who'.

If you're really worried about people taking advantage of it, just don't display it if there is less than 5 people.

Or have it range like this:

There are some people in AREA  (0 - 19)
There are lots o' people in AREA (20 - 49)
There are many people in AREA (50 - 99)
There are tons of people in AREA (100 - 499)

[number13]

The game does seem underpopulated these days.

A more constrained environment would help more than a who (location).   If the MUD were sized in accordance with the population, you'd have a hard time not bumping into other PCs. Further, if your a tavern sitter in Nak, it doesn't help to know there's 50 people logged on in Tuluk.  Worse, if you are a burglar in Nak, it does help to know your the only active PC in the area.

[Reiteration]

First off, this isn't necessary providing IC knowledge in a OOC manner. Theres obviously going to be NPCs/PCs/vNPCs out and about, your character would never be able to tell the difference because such terms would not exist. Therefore, providing a vague value of what mansa stated could be acceptable in my opinion.