Sarge its ok Ive got like 4hp left!

[Lizzie]

Yeah what XD said about focusing more on the numbers when they're not available to you.

In every game I've played where words replaced numbers, the min-maxing of players was always at a pinnacle. It became THE metagame, to assign numbers to the words, OOCly. Player forums were loaded with theories, people spending hours of login time doing the IC research just to fill out their data sheets. Critical failures had points assigned to them, passes had variables assigned to them, and really there was more time spent OUT of the game, just trying to figure out what "good" health meant, than people spent IN the game, enjoying the good health of their characters.

This is what totally ripped roleplay out of all the games I've played, that replaced numbers with words. I'm very -very- glad that isn't the case in Armageddon. I like knowing the numbers are right there, at a glance, or available via prompt, and that -no- one is playing the OOC guessing game with them.

However, for those who WANT to play the OOC guessing game, you can set up your client to create your own prompt, and replace numbers with words. You can do this client-side, just like you can make every instance of the word "you" a pretty bold baby blue.

[RogueGunslinger]

You can do this client-side, just like you can make every instance of the word "you" a pretty bold baby blue.

Weird... I always pick baby blue for "you".

Highlight wins.

[flurry]

If a certain piece of gear is more comfortable, my character would know it, and thus I should know it.

If there's a substantial difference between two pieces of gear, I absolutely think that is something one should be able to figure out relatively easily (from the descriptions, skills/commands, or experience). The more similar they are, the less likely one should be able to make that call. Realistically, people won't always come to the same conclusions.

This would be pretty annoying if the only option you had were do it in character.  You'd have to sleep up to full stamina, walk until you were dead tired (while counting the number of rooms you moved), change boots, and repeat.  I'm pretty sure that type of behavior isn't what you had in mind when you were considering possibilities for improved roleplaying.

Is going to such extraordinary lengths to choose a pair of boots realistic? Personally, I would find it more reasonable to find a pair that looks well-made and functional, and go with that unless it proves to be a problem.

And while I wasn't saying anything about improved roleplay, per se, I do think that the way the game presents information is an indication of what is deemed important. Is it important to be able to precisely quantify the differences between the performances of two pairs of boots? I would say no, but perhaps I'm in the minority on that.

That is:  you aren't going to get rid of the mindset, by any means.  You can only make it more or less difficult for that mindset to acquire the desired information.

Sure, but I just don't think there's any reason we need to cater to it either.

[Twilight]

I would find word descriptions highly annoying, detrimental to fast play in certain situations, and exceedingly painful if I were to play any mage.

[X-D]

Really, you just pick up a pair of shoes IRL and go...Eh, these look alright?

Myself, I pick up 5 pairs then compare them several times by wearing them around the store till I find the pair that will work best for what I want them for.

The difference is often small, but I will still find the best.

[Synthesis]

In an ideal world, similar boot objects would do similar things.

However, in a world where there isn't really much standardization in building methodology, one builder might think, "Hey, +5 stam. is a pretty awesome modifier," while another one thinks "+5 stam. is just average, these boots need +15!"

Meanwhile, they're both basically the same: sandcloth and leather, with some extra padding and whatever.

So, essentially I see the item min-maxing issue as a problem with building more than anything else.

A bone sword should be a bone sword, for fuck's sake.  Sure, write cool descriptions so people can parade around with them, but they shouldn't have grossly irregular damage capabilities.  Same thing with stamina-improving items.

[Oleupata]

However, in a world where there isn't really much standardization in building methodology, one builder might think, "Hey, +5 stam. is a pretty awesome modifier," while another one thinks "+5 stam. is just average, these boots need +15!"

If you find anything where this is the case, bug it. There are, in fact, building standards.

[AmandaGreathouse]

I would find word descriptions highly annoying, detrimental to fast play in certain situations, and exceedingly painful if I were to play any mage.

I wouldn't mind them so much in most situations, and would like them with HP and stamina, but I have to agree with you on the mana thing.

Besides:

I think having them as an 'option' for your prompt would be awesome. Especially for people who are newish to mudding or use clients which aren't packed with features, etc etc etc.

As long as nothing is forced on anyone, I really don't see why anyone would be inconvenienced. I see only benefit. Options are a good thing.

[HTX]

Very valid points brought up on why stamina/mana should remain numerical.

However, I don't see what's wrong with turning hitpoints into text. Raw HPs have always irked me because they feel too Hack 'n' Slashy.

I'd rather keep the numbers personally, if only because when something hits me really hard and takes my HP down from 100 to 55, that sends a very strong message to me to get my PC out of there ASAP. If my health went from just "Perfect" to "Moderate" I might assume that hit wasn't nearly as strong as it actually was, until the next hit killed me.

I see an easy solution to this problem: edit the descriptive words so they're less misleading. Change "moderate" to "half dead". Bam, problem solved. Not to mention, you'd think the "big, nasty NPC bites you on the head inflicting a grievous wound" message would be enough of a indicator that your character is getting beat down.

In every game I've played where words replaced numbers, the min-maxing of players was always at a pinnacle.

I've seen it work fine in several games and have had absolutely no problems with it. Armageddon's staff, in my experience, take a very strong stance against discussing code mechanics. People started trying to do that in the GDB, they'd get smacked down in no time. Don't overlook the fact that we've got very high-calibre players and staff. If people want to rape code mechanics, they will do it regardless of whether health is displayed numerically or with words.

Although I guess I'm fine with it been an optional thing, if opting for text over numbers doesn't put you at a major disadvantage, or vice-versa. I'm not trying to turn this into another "ASCII colour" debate, where people were against optional ASCII colour for no apparent reason, except perhaps fear of change. /mini-rant

[RogueGunslinger]

You can do it client-side too, HTX.

[Delstro]

I am all for numbers. I may not have numbers in RL, but I do have amazing endurance and I do know how far I can go. I know my limits and I know how far I can go past my limits before I get fucked severely.

As far as the min/max topic, we could use a standard building method that is used in a lot of games today. The general idea is each resource gets a set of attributes. Those attributes effect the product they are turned into.

[staggerlee]

I would like something more like the SOI combat/healing system.
I want to take a brutal shot to the arm, and have the game tell me that I've got an open, bleeding stump where my arm used to be - then I can rp bleeding and stuff, and a medic can rp fixing it... in fact a medic would have to fix it, because if I tried to sleep it off I'd probably bleed to death. It's  a much more nuanced, colorful, and interesting system, and allows for medics and support characters in ways that Arm's hp system really doesn't.

The current system of sleeping off wounds is beyond ludicrous. Currently when I spar I know the exact number where I have to pull off to heal without sleeping, and combat situations are equally silly. IMHO the current hp system is a relic from H&S days and it really dumbs down rp.

[RogueGunslinger]

I'm with Stagger.

[Lizzie]

I would like something more like the SOI combat/healing system.
I want to take a brutal shot to the arm, and have the game tell me that I've got an open, bleeding stump where my arm used to be - then I can rp bleeding and stuff, and a medic can rp fixing it... in fact a medic would have to fix it, because if I tried to sleep it off I'd probably bleed to death. It's  a much more nuanced, colorful, and interesting system, and allows for medics and support characters in ways that Arm's hp system really doesn't.

The current system of sleeping off wounds is beyond ludicrous. Currently when I spar I know the exact number where I have to pull off to heal without sleeping, and combat situations are equally silly. IMHO the current hp system is a relic from H&S days and it really dumbs down rp.

Having a character die because they can't find a medic during off-peak times is equally ludicrous. The game world is populated by VNPCs, but VNPCs can't heal coded injury. This, from what I can figure out, is why Arm lets you sleep it off. The staff is assuming you're roleplaying out your injuries. This -is- a roleplaying game afterall. We have the tdesc and coded scars that allow you to actually -have- visible injuries and permanent scars. The only thing you have to get staff intervention for, is if you lose an arm and can no longer wear a "pair" of sleeves, or a pair of gloves, or wield anything, and take a permanent dive in the riding -and- climbing skill...

Personally, I like the fact that I can choose to RP that my arm is still there, but horribly injured, and able to be restored to some useful level. Or I can RP that while I was logged out, I brought the other half of my arm to a magicker, who bonded stump to arm magically and now I just have to RP being sore for a couple of days.

Having NPC medics would be grand in your scenario, except in the case of tribal types who don't have access to city medics. And if you're just going to make it easy for anyone to get healed by an NPC, why bother implementing all that damage in the first place? Just let people roleplay it out, and if coded intervention is needed, use tsdesc, the scar room, or for extremes, the request tool.

[Synthesis]

With some effort and forethought, it would be possible to code a wound-based system that didn't effectively screw over iso clans and off-peak players.  For example, Accursed Lands' wound-based system is pretty forgiving.  Even the worst limb manglings will heal on their own in a few hours, unless it's actually been severed.

I don't think a few hours is an onerous burden, so long as those sorts of injuries are fairly uncommon with whatever combat system is implemented.

Of course, if you're by yourself and a mountain lion rips your freakin' leg off...yeah, your ass is grass.

[Lizzie]

I'm all in favor of an actual wound system, but in the current version of Armageddon I just don't see how it can work without completely revamping everything from combat to healing to NPCs that are able to heal people to magicker healing systems, to poisons to injuries to armor and repair etc. etc. etc.

Basically it would require a complete system overhaul. But, I think all this can be addressed in Arm Reborn, in a way they wouldn't have to "undo" everything just to do it awesome the next round.

[Synthesis]

Yeah, I don't think anyone expects something like that to go in for 1.Arm.

[Lizzie]

I misunderstood then. I thought suggestions for the new game were supposed to go in the Arm Reborn folder and that this thread was a suggestion for the current version. My bad, sorry.

[RogueGunslinger]

I misunderstood then. I thought suggestions for the new game were supposed to go in the Arm Reborn folder and that this thread was a suggestion for the current version. My bad, sorry.

That's not what this thread was about, if you bothered to read the OP. It was just a derail.

[Sephiroto]

I wish I could see health, stamina, and stun points IRL.  I like my numbers.  As much as I love to RP lots of things, I like having heroic characters who can survive a lot of crap and choose not to wander around playing off wounds for RL days.

[jhunter]

I like the system the way it is. I can rp my injuries and add alot more flavor and variation than is truly possible with the code. Let's keep some of the precious and steadily fading grey area around to rp in eh?

[FantasyWriter]

Let's keep some of the precious and steadily fading grey area around to rp in eh?

No kidding. 

[HTX]

But there's certain things which RP alone can't cover, and requires code. Eg. temporary penalties after suffering from a grievous wound (eg. broken bone). Am I correct in assuming that the largest concern about a damage system is that it may be too crippling (pardon the lame pun) and thus effect playability? Can't we find some moderation, where there's a damage system to add spice to injuries, but not to the point where you have to sit around for RL weeks to recover from a broken bone?

I have no idea why people always expect the worse when it comes to ideas which might affect playability.

[Lizzie]

I don't think it can be addressed in Arm v.1 without gutting the injury/wound/damage/recovery system completely and building it back up again. However, I believe the staff have said they're planning on a new system for v.2 that would address some of these concerns.

[FantasyWriter]

If you would like this for yourself, I believe Agent137's infobar gives you the option.
I would like to keep my numbers, though.