Sarge its ok Ive got like 4hp left!

[Tisiphone]

I've allowed four votes maximum, so that you can vote for all four propositions if you like. Still, please only vote once for each option you choose, to keep the numbers consistent.

I got to thinking the other day about how much I liked Armageddon, because it is the most immersive RP environment on the internet, bar none. Really, guys, staff and players, give yourselves a pat on the back.

Then I got to thinking about what some of the problems we still have are. There are a number, of course. One of them is occasional 'unrealistic' response to wounding, for example. There are a few threads about how to play off injuries to your character, and it is generally agreed in those threads that low hp usually means something serious.

Then these two threads of thought crossed. "Wow," I thought to myself, "one of the things that would really help my immersion is if I didn't know exactly how many hp my character had left. What's more, I'd be more cautious with my characters, because I wouldn't know exactly how many more hits they could take."

So I sat down to write up this proposition. Then it hit me that the same is true of ep (endurance points), and perhaps even more so. How often have your characters been walking through the desert, and you think to yourself, "Hmm, I have 8 ep left, I could juuuust make it back inside 'nak's gates.", and how often have you pushed your characters to the raggedy edge? In fact, I sometimes have trouble remembering to roleplay how tired my character is, just ignoring that little 2/142 in my prompt because, after all, what does it really mean?

Here it is, a simple text substitution fix. Instead of letting players see in their prompt/infobar/score how tired their characters are, replace those numerical values with the text strings already given by the assess command. Simple, easy, painless, and liable to make people think twice about trying to take down that scrab solo.

I threw stun and mana into the poll because, even though after thinking about it I'm against the idea (not to mention it would take a wee bit more work for staff, coming up with appropriate text substitutions), these values should have their fair shot at discussion, too.

What do you think?

[AmandaGreathouse]

Agreed on all counts.

HP and ep/moves/stam/whatever-name-you-put-on-it: Yes, I'd like to see the text instead.

Mana and stun: I would prefer to see the numbers.

How many times have I walked my pc down to 1/over9000 stam? Countless.

[Synthesis]

Anyone would be able to figure it out very quickly, anyway, through sparring.

All the normal hits have a 1-2 hp damage range, so if you take say, 8 grazing (1-2) hp hits and you're now at 'moderate' condition, given an expected value of 1.5 dam per hit, 8 hits = 12 damage. 10% is moderate, so now you know you are likely to have anywhere from 120 to 129 hp. 

Of course, the more sparring matches you have, the better your computed mean will approach the actual.

Just sayin'.

[AmandaGreathouse]

I'm not against people being able to calculate their hp. Not at all.

I just think it would be a nice touch if it showed up the way suggested.

People will always find some way to do something if they're determined enough. I don't care much about twinks at all, and don't see how purposely changing things is going to stop them. They'll twink if they can at all. But it's not about that, it's mostly about immersion as to why I agree.

The few times I've assess -v'ed myself while out wandering or after sparring, I was usually pretty shocked at how bad it looked. I think that seeing how bad it appeared to others would be a good thing. Or, at the very least, make 'my' play more enjoyable. That's why I favor it.

[flurry]

I agree it would be an improvement to have text instead of numbers. Before I played Armageddon, the MUD I played (more hack and slash, though encouraging roleplay) had it set up that way. It's not that difficult to adjust to, at all.

[Wasteland Raider]

I would prefer to see HP numbers (or the possibility to see HP numbers), as well as stun - but mana and moves I'd like to see wordified.

I can't tell you how many times I've seen (or been!) someone casting as soon as they had enough mana to cast, or moving down to "just enough mv to run 2-3-whatever rooms."

[Synthesis]

I can't tell you how many times I've seen (or been!) someone casting as soon as they had enough mana to cast, or moving down to "just enough mv to run 2-3-whatever rooms."

What, exactly, is wrong with that?

I guess my argument is this:  if a player is of the type that is not freaked out and begging to be hauled back to the city at 4 hp, what makes you think they will suddenly change and become model roleplayers when they see "terrible condition" instead?

This sort of person would see "terrible condition" and think, "Hey, at least I'm not at 'near death'  yet."

(Further: this sort of "I'm okay, let's carry on" thing is typically a product of not wanting to miss out on the RPT, not of people not knowing any better.)

So, my final evaluation:

Contribution to roleplay:  neutral.
Additional nuisance: high.

[Lizzie]

The only time you actually see all those numbers, is if you type the ooc command (stat or score, whichever one does that), OR if you have set your prompt to see them.

In other words, you don't see any of those numbers, unless/until you make a very -intentional- attempt to do so. So I don't see what the problem is.

[Synthesis]

p.s. Welcome back to the GDB, Tis.

[Pale Horse]

Personally, I'd prefer to see a "wordy description" of my condition, than the numbers.

Perfect Condition or Full health, for 100/100 hp.  Fully rested, for endurance, etc.

I'd be able to RP my character's personal condition a lot better (in my mind, at least), with these, than with just hard numbers.

[Synthesis]

Personally, I'd prefer to see a "wordy description" of my condition, than the numbers.

Perfect Condition or Full health, for 100/100 hp.  Fully rested, for endurance, etc.

I'd be able to RP my character's personal condition a lot better (in my mind, at least), with these, than with just hard numbers.

Relevant parts emboldened.

Also, see Lizzie's post above:  if you don't want to see the numbers, don't put them in your prompt, and don't type 'score.'

[Pale Horse]

Personally, I'd prefer to see a "wordy description" of my condition, than the numbers.

Perfect Condition or Full health, for 100/100 hp.  Fully rested, for endurance, etc.

I'd be able to RP my character's personal condition a lot better (in my mind, at least), with these, than with just hard numbers.

Relevant parts emboldened.

Also, see Lizzie's post above:  if you don't want to see the numbers, don't put them in your prompt, and don't type 'score.'

And?  So you bolded the parts of my post where I stated it was my own preference.  And it's obvious you don't like the idea.

Why keep posting, restating that?

[Fathi]

I like the idea of having text-based descriptors available as an option in one's prompt. That way, people who want to use them can do so and people who prefer the numbers can use the numbers. Personally, I don't know if either choice would make a difference to my own roleplay. I almost never let my characters' stamina get that low because it's just beggin' for trouble. But why not have the option available for those who want it?

I'd also support text-based prompts for mana and stun... the only problem is I'd have no idea how to label them. With HP and stamina points, we already have relatively fit/moderate/does not look well/etc. and a little weary/tired/very tired/exhausted/etc.

Can anyone think of good terminology for mana and stun points that would fit tidily into a prompt?

I could see myself using either of these prompts:

[Fathi] 99/104HP 130/150MV 95/95ST - walking / armed
[Fathi] Relatively Fit / A Little Weary / - walking / armed

[Pale Horse]

I like the idea of having text-based descriptors available as an option in one's prompt. That way, people who want to use them can do so and people who prefer the numbers can use the numbers. Personally, I don't know if either choice would make a difference to my own roleplay. I almost never let my characters' stamina get that low because it's just beggin' for trouble. But why not have the option available for those who want it?

I'd also support text-based prompts for mana and stun... the only problem is I'd have no idea how to label them. With HP and stamina points, we already have relatively fit/moderate/does not look well/etc. and a little weary/tired/very tired/exhausted/etc.

Can anyone think of good terminology for mana and stun points that would fit tidily into a prompt?

I could see myself using either of these prompts:

[Fathi] 99/104HP 130/150MV 95/95ST - walking / armed
[Fathi] Relatively Fit / A Little Weary / - walking / armed

Stun: Clear headed, dazed, reeling, stunned, etc.
Mana..is a little tougher, as aren't we encouraged to make up something that's personal and unique for our own magicker characters?  How they touch, manipulate, feel, etc magic.  I honestly don't know what to do, with this one, but I've always just played it was as my magicker is more "tired" or "drained" the more they cast, and "rested" or something like that, when they've regained enough to cast again.

[Synthesis]

Personally, I'd prefer to see a "wordy description" of my condition, than the numbers.

Perfect Condition or Full health, for 100/100 hp.  Fully rested, for endurance, etc.

I'd be able to RP my character's personal condition a lot better (in my mind, at least), with these, than with just hard numbers.

Relevant parts emboldened.

Also, see Lizzie's post above:  if you don't want to see the numbers, don't put them in your prompt, and don't type 'score.'

And?  So you bolded the parts of my post where I stated it was my own preference.  And it's obvious you don't like the idea.

Why keep posting, restating that?

Because you already have the option of getting what you want, without inconveniencing the rest of us, maybe?

The "word conditions in prompt" idea has already been discussed in some other prompt-related thread.

[Pale Horse]

Because you already have the option of getting what you want, without inconveniencing the rest of us, maybe?

The "word conditions in prompt" idea has already been discussed in some other prompt-related thread.

I can get "word conditions in prompt" when dealing with HP, Stun, Mana, etc?  Really?  Point that out to me, as apparently I'm slow?  From what I can see, it's a numbered prompt, or no prompt at all.  That's not "what I want."

I'm fine with the numbers.  I've been using them the whole time, and they've never been a personal irritation or any sort of problem.  I was simply saying, as you felt compelled to bold, that for me, the word prompt would help me keep in mind that my character is seriously/not seriously hurt, winded, exhausted, whatever.  It's my preference, that's it.  If you gathered that I was somehow implying that this should be changed and my way or the high way, where the rest of the player base is concerned, I'm sorry if you did, but you jumped to a false conclusion.

[Synthesis]

Because you already have the option of getting what you want, without inconveniencing the rest of us, maybe?

The "word conditions in prompt" idea has already been discussed in some other prompt-related thread.

I can get "word conditions in prompt" when dealing with HP, Stun, Mana, etc?  Really?  Point that out to me, as apparently I'm slow?  From what I can see, it's a numbered prompt, or no prompt at all.  That's not "what I want."

I'm fine with the numbers.  I've been using them the whole time, and they've never been a personal irritation or any sort of problem.  I was simply saying, as you felt compelled to bold, that for me, the word prompt would help me keep in mind that my character is seriously/not seriously hurt, winded, exhausted, whatever.  It's my preference, that's it.  If you gathered that I was somehow implying that this should be changed and my way or the high way, where the rest of the player base is concerned, I'm sorry if you did, but you jumped to a false conclusion.

I said it had been discussed in another thread, not that it was currently implemented.  Apparently you are a little slow with the reading comprehension.

For now, if you want to see your condition, type 'ass -v me.'  My understanding from your limited output was that you wanted your condition related to you in some verbal fashion, rather than numerical.  This is already implemented.  The 'prompt' consideration didn't come up until Fathi posted (after your original post) so I don't see how you could accuse me of misunderstanding something that you never said until you got mad at me for not realizing that's what you meant, but didn't type.

Sorry I don't have the RL karma to be a mindbender, dude.

[Pale Horse]

I said it had been discussed in another thread, not that it was currently implemented.  Apparently you are a little slow with the reading comprehension.

Here it is, a simple text substitution fix. Instead of letting players see in their prompt/infobar/score how tired their characters are, replace those numerical values with the text strings already given by the assess command. Simple, easy, painless, and liable to make people think twice about trying to take down that scrab solo.

Yeah..the original post wasn't about word options in the prompt, at all.  My reading comprehension was obviously faulty...

For what it's worth, yes, I didn't clarify that I'd like an option in the prompt to see this.  I didn't feel it was necessary, as Tis had said she'd like the word option in the prompt, from the start of the thread.

[Synthesis]

I said it had been discussed in another thread, not that it was currently implemented.  Apparently you are a little slow with the reading comprehension.

Here it is, a simple text substitution fix. Instead of letting players see in their prompt/infobar/score how tired their characters are, replace those numerical values with the text strings already given by the assess command. Simple, easy, painless, and liable to make people think twice about trying to take down that scrab solo.

Yeah..the original post wasn't about word options in the prompt, at all.  My reading comprehension was obviously faulty...

For what it's worth, yes, I didn't clarify that I'd like an option in the prompt to see this.  I didn't feel it was necessary, as Tis had said she'd like the word option in the prompt, from the start of the thread.

Okay, let's break this down item by item:

Exhibit 1:

Personally, I'd prefer to see a "wordy description" of my condition, than the numbers.

Perfect Condition or Full health, for 100/100 hp.  Fully rested, for endurance, etc.

I'd be able to RP my character's personal condition a lot better (in my mind, at least), with these, than with just hard numbers.

Let the record show that this was Pale Horse's first post in the thread.

Let the record also show that Pale Horse said nothing in reference to the original post in the thread.

Pale Horse stated a preference for seeing words over numbers, without specifying a context.

Exhibit 2:

Personally, I'd prefer to see a "wordy description" of my condition, than the numbers.

Perfect Condition or Full health, for 100/100 hp.  Fully rested, for endurance, etc.

I'd be able to RP my character's personal condition a lot better (in my mind, at least), with these, than with just hard numbers.

Relevant parts emboldened.

Also, see Lizzie's post above:  if you don't want to see the numbers, don't put them in your prompt, and don't type 'score.'

And?  So you bolded the parts of my post where I stated it was my own preference.  And it's obvious you don't like the idea.

Why keep posting, restating that?

Because you already have the option of getting what you want, without inconveniencing the rest of us, maybe?

The "word conditions in prompt" idea has already been discussed in some other prompt-related thread.

I responded to this post by stating that Pale Horse already has the option of achieving his previously stated preference:  words over numbers.  I also pointed out that the idea of putting such words in the prompt had been discussed elsewhere.

Exhibit 3:

Because you already have the option of getting what you want, without inconveniencing the rest of us, maybe?

The "word conditions in prompt" idea has already been discussed in some other prompt-related thread.

I can get "word conditions in prompt" when dealing with HP, Stun, Mana, etc?  Really?  Point that out to me, as apparently I'm slow?  From what I can see, it's a numbered prompt, or no prompt at all.  That's not "what I want."

I'm fine with the numbers.  I've been using them the whole time, and they've never been a personal irritation or any sort of problem.  I was simply saying, as you felt compelled to bold, that for me, the word prompt would help me keep in mind that my character is seriously/not seriously hurt, winded, exhausted, whatever.  It's my preference, that's it.  If you gathered that I was somehow implying that this should be changed and my way or the high way, where the rest of the player base is concerned, I'm sorry if you did, but you jumped to a false conclusion.

Here's where you jumped the rails:  now you're including support for the prompt idea, something you had not stated previously, and therefore I had no opportunity to address, beyond pre-emptively pointing out that the prompt idea had already been discussed elsewhere.

So: fine, you like the prompt idea.  I like the prompt idea, so long as it isn't mandatory.  I don't like the idea of having mandatory words vs. numbers.

Can we move on, now?

[Tzurahro]

Show courtesy, charity, and generosity to your fellow GDB users.  It will help build character.

[Aaron Goulet]

Show courtesy, charity, and generosity to your fellow GDB users.  It will help build character a better world.

Fixed. 

[flurry]

One other issue with having the precise numerical values is that this encourages a certain amount of min/max behavior, especially with equipment. This would at least help shift the focus away from that kind of mindset (in a way more consistent with the presentation of stats and skills).

The only time you actually see all those numbers, is if you type the ooc command (stat or score, whichever one does that), OR if you have set your prompt to see them.

In other words, you don't see any of those numbers, unless/until you make a very -intentional- attempt to do so. So I don't see what the problem is.

Of course, but the suggestion isn't to fully conceal all information about a character's status, and I doubt anyone wants that.

[Synthesis]

One other issue with having the precise numerical values is that this encourages a certain amount of min/max behavior, especially with equipment. This would at least help shift the focus away from that kind of mindset (in a way more consistent with the presentation of stats and skills).

The only time you actually see all those numbers, is if you type the ooc command (stat or score, whichever one does that), OR if you have set your prompt to see them.

In other words, you don't see any of those numbers, unless/until you make a very -intentional- attempt to do so. So I don't see what the problem is.

Of course, but the suggestion isn't to fully conceal all information about a character's status, and I doubt anyone wants that.

RE: the equipment issue.

If a certain piece of gear is more comfortable, my character would know it, and thus I should know it.

I could possibly support this if there were some sort of echo added, or some possible way of comparing two items.  Realistically, I would walk around a couple of weeks in a new pair of boots, and then be like, "Damn, these boots are way better for desert walkin'" or perhaps "Fuck these boots, I'll never buy Kadian again."

This would be pretty annoying if the only option you had were do it in character.  You'd have to sleep up to full stamina, walk until you were dead tired (while counting the number of rooms you moved), change boots, and repeat.  I'm pretty sure that type of behavior isn't what you had in mind when you were considering possibilities for improved roleplaying.

That is:  you aren't going to get rid of the mindset, by any means.  You can only make it more or less difficult for that mindset to acquire the desired information.

[musashi]

I'd rather keep the numbers personally, if only because when something hits me really hard and takes my HP down from 100 to 55, that sends a very strong message to me to get my PC out of there ASAP. If my health went from just "Perfect" to "Moderate" I might assume that hit wasn't nearly as strong as it actually was, until the next hit killed me. This would make me a sad panda.

[X-D]

I don't see how it would improve roleplay at all.

I find word descriptors for hp/mv/stun annoying at best.

Why can't my PC know how much farther he can go?

Code Select Expand

100hp/6 stam/100 stun

If we stay in the scrub I think I can go another two miles sarge!


Seems pretty realistic to me.

Code Select Expand

Perfect condition/pooped/bright-eyed

Um....I don't know sarge...I might be able to go another five miles....or be stuck here.

Not very realistic IMO

And to be honest, seeing the numbers means you pay less attention to numbers.

Not seeing them means you have to think about them constently.

IE, if I cannot see the numbers, I spend the first few hours of play figuring them out, once that is done then I just keep track of them in my head...leaving less time for other things.

figuring out stam and stun would take maybe 15 minutes, HP, slightly longer. Then you sit there going, alright, I know it is 28 stam per descripter, X stam per room....just do running math in your head...I'd rather not have to do that.