Ranged attack inconsistancies

[5 day lifespan]

My understanding is that items like slingshots, bows, and crossbows all proceed from the same "ranged attack" skill.  Why is it, then, that when I attack an animal with my slingshot, I can kill it, but when I shoot that same animal with my bow, I miss every time?  It certainly does not seem to be a case of trying to shoot at different types of the same animal (Yellow/grey/plaid scrab) who may or may not be statted differently, the only difference is the weapon used.

I thought it might have been a weather shift that I didn't notice, but everything appeared to be the same.  The only difference was the type of ranged weapon in use.  Any ideas there?  Is there, in fact, a ranged attack skill and a hidden Bow/crossbow/sling skill?  If so, then the reverse should be true: I should be better at using a bow than the sling, for IC reasons.

[RogueGunslinger]

this is something you should log and send to the staff.

[Synthesis]

Probably because bows have traditionally been considered "more powerful" from a game balance perspective, and thus the imms wanted to require a higher degree of proficiency before folks can start pwning n00bz with arrows.

Also: range affects accuracy, so if you're shooting the sling from 1 league, but firing the bow from 3, that could account for the difference.

[Cerelum]

I'm waiting for all the slingshot wielding rangers now, killing Bahamets from one room away with a pebble.

[5 day lifespan]

One room over in both cases.  Though I've noticed some bows say in their descriptions that they seem less accurate at close ranges.  Mine does not in this case, but it makes me wonder.  If this is a "Log and email" issue I'll gladly do it.  Just wanted to check first.  Thanks.

[janeshephard]

As an avid RL archer I can tell you modern sport recurve bows have far more accuracy than a slingshot has. Then again I never fired a "professional" slingshot so I have no idea if they could be made better.

[jstorrie]

As an avid in-game powergamer I can suggest you look towards a number of potential causes, including but not limited to: whether or not the bow is codedly appropriate for your strength; the quality of your ammunition; slings being bludgeoning rather than piercing; inconsistencies in the body locations you're hitting; differing weather conditions; etc.

[5 day lifespan]

As an avid in-game powergamer I can suggest you look towards a number of potential causes, including but not limited to: whether or not the bow is codedly appropriate for your strength; the quality of your ammunition; slings being bludgeoning rather than piercing; inconsistencies in the body locations you're hitting; differing weather conditions; etc.

I'll mention again that the discrepency was not the damage I was doing, but rather my inability to hit at all.  With the sling every shot hit, and soon had the creature dead.  With the bow, no shot landed at all, and I was using two different types of arrows.  The bow is appropriate for my strength, and I was pretty sure the weather had not changed.

[X-D]

IRL a bow is much like a gun and has to be sighted in.

In game, bows are "pre-sighted" Some have "sweet" ranges. Others do not.

Or it could be that I have been imagining things.

Still it seems to me that slings tend to be the best for 1 room and bows for 2 and 3.

[morrigan]

I once had the opposite problem. Hit almost every time with a bow, couldn't hit a damned thing with a sling.

[Spoon]

In the past, due to the healing rate of mobs I've always found it incredibly difficult to kill anything with a sling. I found it wasn't uncommon to hit something twelve times in a row and have it in 'excellent condition' after moving in. Probably a combination of sucking at archery and not spamming commands fast enough? I don't know, but I found this thread surprising so I suggest to go with the log to staff idea.

[5 day lifespan]

I have noticed that too.  There have been times when I have pumped upwards of 30 stones into a creature (hits, mind you) and still see that creature in no worse than poor condition.  That is a condition of lack of skill, as your damage increases with your accuracy.  I have also theorized that, since this game was created when AD+D was still being played (in fact, this game was created before 3rd ed) that some creatures have a different AC (or, Armor Class) against different weapon types.  In AD+D, Having a piercing, slashing, or bludgeoning weapon did different damage based on the armor your target was wearing.  Chain, for instance, was proof against slashing, limited protection against piercing, but no protection at all against bludgeoning.  I have long assumed this was the case in Arm, also, but have never been able to check.

[Twilight]

There certain rare situations that will cause you to miss with a bow, every single time, even as a good archer with a good bow and good arrows.  I've never tested to see if these apply to slings as well.

[UnderSeven]

As an avid RL archer I can tell you modern sport recurve bows have far more accuracy than a slingshot has. Then again I never fired a "professional" slingshot so I have no idea if they could be made better.

As an avid RL archer, who has a traditional longbow THAT DOESN'T EVEN HAVE AN ARROW REST (yes the arrow rests on my hand (bare hand if I'm feeling really showy (it cuts me))) I can tell you that accuracy of these types of bows depend heavily on the skill of the shooter and could quite possibly be seriously in-accurate.  I wouldn't compare anything to modern point and click bows, I call them that because they require a very tiny fraction of the skill traditional bows require.  I would say Armageddon bows more likely resemble the traditional bow more closely.

Granted Janeshephard would probably outshoot me any day of the week with her bow vs mine, especially if she practices regularly.  I'm merely pointing out that modern bows are nothing like they used to be.

[janeshephard]

Zalanthas has recurve bows though which is essentially what sport bows are. Designed with a weaker pull in mind.

[UnderSeven]

In theory maybe, but that's kind of like comparing a car to a push cart. 

The differences are all over the place.  One, sports bows are made out of different materials and designed to be much easier to pull back.  The Modern bows are way easier to hold and aim than a tradtiional recurve bow.  The sights on modern bows are very accurate and with the easy to hold pull you can line up a shot with a small fraction of the factors against you.  The arrows are made out of carbon fiber and a lot lighter, yet pack about the same punch, in comparison to a zalathian arrow which is going to be heavier and far less accurate.  So lets go down the list. 

Zalanthian bow will be harder to pull back, very hard to hold in a position of draw (your arms are going to shake and get tired very quickly) lack any form of sights, are going to be crafted in a less uniform fashion, so small deviations in stance and form will probably have a far bigger impact (also good form will be harder to maintain with the higher draw difficulty) and the heavier arrows with feather fletchings that weren't done by a machine will be less percise.

I still contest that the difference in accuracy versus a modern bow and a tradtional bow is really distinct.  But to prove my point, I suggest trying to shoot a traditional bow.  As an archer you'll probably still do alright, but I think you should notice the difficulty increase pretty easily.

[FantasyWriter]

In theory maybe, but that's kind of like comparing a car to a push cart. 

The differences are all over the place.  One, sports bows are made out of different materials and designed to be much easier to pull back.  The Modern bows are way easier to hold and aim than a tradtiional recurve bow.  The sights on modern bows are very accurate and with the easy to hold pull you can line up a shot with a small fraction of the factors against you.  The arrows are made out of carbon fiber and a lot lighter, yet pack about the same punch, in comparison to a zalathian arrow which is going to be heavier and far less accurate.  So lets go down the list. 

Zalanthian bow will be harder to pull back, very hard to hold in a position of draw (your arms are going to shake and get tired very quickly) lack any form of sights, are going to be crafted in a less uniform fashion, so small deviations in stance and form will probably have a far bigger impact (also good form will be harder to maintain with the higher draw difficulty) and the heavier arrows with feather fletchings that weren't done by a machine will be less percise.

I still contest that the difference in accuracy versus a modern bow and a tradtional bow is really distinct.  But to prove my point, I suggest trying to shoot a traditional bow.  As an archer you'll probably still do alright, but I think you should notice the difficulty increase pretty easily.

While your facts are right on, any lack in quality of the tools will be made up for through necessity.

Modern bow/arrow combos may be much more sophisticated than their Native American counterparts, but that made them no less accurate or deadly in the hand of an experienced tribal hunter than the modern hunter who shoots a bow two or three months out of the year for food, and maybe a little time-to-time in between seasons for practice.

[UnderSeven]

In theory maybe, but that's kind of like comparing a car to a push cart. 

The differences are all over the place.  One, sports bows are made out of different materials and designed to be much easier to pull back.  The Modern bows are way easier to hold and aim than a tradtiional recurve bow.  The sights on modern bows are very accurate and with the easy to hold pull you can line up a shot with a small fraction of the factors against you.  The arrows are made out of carbon fiber and a lot lighter, yet pack about the same punch, in comparison to a zalathian arrow which is going to be heavier and far less accurate.  So lets go down the list. 

Zalanthian bow will be harder to pull back, very hard to hold in a position of draw (your arms are going to shake and get tired very quickly) lack any form of sights, are going to be crafted in a less uniform fashion, so small deviations in stance and form will probably have a far bigger impact (also good form will be harder to maintain with the higher draw difficulty) and the heavier arrows with feather fletchings that weren't done by a machine will be less percise.

I still contest that the difference in accuracy versus a modern bow and a tradtional bow is really distinct.  But to prove my point, I suggest trying to shoot a traditional bow.  As an archer you'll probably still do alright, but I think you should notice the difficulty increase pretty easily.

While your facts are right on, any lack in quality of the tools will be made up for through necessity.

Modern bow/arrow combos may be much more sophisticated than their Native American counterparts, but that made them no less accurate or deadly in the hand of an experienced tribal hunter than the modern hunter who shoots a bow two or three months out of the year for food, and maybe a little time-to-time in between seasons for practice.

I'm not saying they were less deadly or accurate I'm saying they were harder to use.  The original post was that modern bows are very accurate, far more than a slingshot.  My point was modern bows are much easier to obtain that level of accuracy than likely anything they had on arm.  Not that the users wouldn't be able to.