Family

[Nyx]

I am in need of help regarding two characters, a father and mother.

[ic info removed -Nyr]

Any help with this would be appreciated,

[Synthesis]

If you're recruiting for family, you included far too much information in your post.

If you're trying to figure out how to write a background, this is something you'd be better off either a) e-mailing the staff or b) asking a Helper.

[Gimfalisette]

Hi. As Synthesis said, if you're recruiting for family members, this is probably too much information to put in your post. However, I thought I would also give you some facts from documentation that may help you with adjusting the character backgrounds to be more appropriate for the gameworld.

In both Allanak and Tuluk:

the majority of elven "slaves" are in various stages of the criminal system and are being tossed into the arena as combatants - very few are labor slaves.

There are very few organizations in either city-state that will want to use an elf as a labor slave. Most likely, these organizations are going to be Borsail and Kasix (in Allanak) or Winrothol (in Tuluk). If an elven slave was recaptured after many years, it's extremely likely that the elf would just be killed outright, rather than again being kept as a labor slave. Elves are not used as pleasure slaves or domestic slaves in either city-state.

Your other option is that perhaps the elf actually escaped from the criminal justice system. But again, if recaptured, the elf would have just been killed outright.

Another note about slaves in general is that almost always (like 99.99%), they are owned by the nobility/templarate or a Great Merchant House (Kadius/Salarr/Kurac). But slaves owned by the GMHs are nearly always going to be something other than elves--because the GMHs don't need a lot of general labor done, and there is almost nothing else to use an elf for.

So it's highly unlikely that a "wealthy merchant" (I'm assuming an independent) would somehow come into a situation where there was opportunity for intimate contact with an elven slave; not to mention, most humans in Allanak/Tuluk would find the thought of sex with an elf repulsive. And if an elven slave was known to be pregnant by a human, it's also highly likely that elf would just be killed.

If you wanted to have this wealthy merchant actually be a family member or employee of one of the GMHs (Kadius/Salarar/Kurac), then you would need to communicate with that clan's staff to get the background approved. That is not a special application, but it does need approval from the clan staff.

[Spoon]

I was under the impression that elves make bad slaves because of their elven attitudes towards loyalty, not because they're apparently good for nothing. They're impractical as slaves because they will always attempt to undermine their owners and escape at any opportunity. Of course there's nothing wrong or untrue about your post Gimfalisette, it just sounds more like an IC speech from an educated human (GMH family member, perhaps) than documentation.

[RogueGunslinger]

Elves make amazing slaves. You just have to breed them to believe you're their tribe.

[Spoon]

Yep. They'd make the best postmen ever.

[Gimfalisette]

I was under the impression that elves make bad slaves because of their elven attitudes towards loyalty, not because they're apparently good for nothing.

-- They are not good as combat slaves. (Because other slaves are better as combat slaves, and Rennik is not going to pit their elf against Jal's mul.)
-- They are not good as domestic slaves. (Because they will probably steal everything.)
-- They are not good as pleasure slaves. (Because no one would keep an elf for this purpose--even if a human was into that kind of thing, it just wouldn't be done.)
-- They are usable as labor slaves because there is no other use for them.

I.e., they are good for nothing other than labor, and the criminal justice system. Saying "good for nothing" was not IC propaganda, it's an OOC statement of fact that elves can't be legitimately used for another purpose, as slaves.

Elves make amazing slaves. You just have to breed them to believe you're their tribe.

If this was actually ICly doable, someone would be doing it.

[RogueGunslinger]

Wouldn't an elf slaved from birth think you were his tribe? That just makes sense to me.

[Spider]

Wouldn't an elf slaved from birth think you were his tribe? That just makes sense to me.

Elves are very intelligent, more intelligent than humans(generally). So I'd think they would get wise to the fact, and probably act out. I think that is one of the reasons they suck as slaves.

[RogueGunslinger]

Act out and get wise isn't something someone who's been a slave their whole life can do. Simply put, they would only know what's taught to them.

[Gimfalisette]

Wouldn't an elf slaved from birth think you were his tribe? That just makes sense to me.

Elves are not geese, or half-giants. I don't believe they are "imprintable" in this way. If they were, it would be being done. But Borsail, Kasix and Winrothol do not AFAIK breed elves; elves are acquired for labor by other methods. There is simply something within elves themselves that makes them unsuitable as slaves, as compared to every other race.

[Cavaticus]

If you reference back to the thread that the Halaster quote comes from, you'll find a link to the slavery documentation. The information there about elves is correct. They make very poor slaves.

[Gimfalisette]

Thanks, Cav, I had been trying to figure out where in the docs that might be. Duh

[Nyx]

-- They are not good as combat slaves. (Because other slaves are better as combat slaves, and Rennik is not going to pit their elf against Jal's mul.)
-- They are not good as domestic slaves. (Because they will probably steal everything.)
-- They are not good as pleasure slaves. (Because no one would keep an elf for this purpose--even if a human was into that kind of thing, it just wouldn't be done.)
-- They are usable as labor slaves because there is no other use for them.

I.e., they are good for nothing other than labor, and the criminal justice system. Saying "good for nothing" was not IC propaganda, it's an OOC statement of fact that elves can't be legitimately used for another purpose, as slaves.

I dont understand the thought process behind this. I understand that in the game there is a certain tension between elves and humans culturally. Why is it that elves are useless. I wasnt aware that elves were coded where they couldnt fight or kill... Or that all elves were taught and raised to be thieves As far as pleasure slaves, the forbidden has always tempted people and made it that more apealing, especially the rich. As far as labor slaves go, since when did what type of workload a being was capable of ever stop the use of them as free labor, perhaps slavery is less cruel in arms than it is in the real world. Additionally I dont know why a culture prejudice between elves and humans would automatically apply to all the citizens. That all humans would hate and despise elves and vise versa sounds incredibaly unrealistic and boring.
It seems more a case that elves are less common as slaves simply becuase its typically cheaper and easier to control the other races .

[Gimfalisette]

I wasnt aware that elves were coded where they couldnt fight or kill...

Elves are not coded so that they can't fight or kill. An elf warrior, ranger, or assassin (or other kind of fighter/killer) is a totally valid and (probably) playable concept, codedly. But culturally speaking, when noble houses or other organizations are looking for combat slaves, they either want soldiers/guards (in which case an elf is a much poorer choice than a human or dwarf or half-giant), or they want arena fighters (in which case an elf is a much poorer choice than a mul in terms of fighting, or a poorer choice than nearly anything else in terms of exotic interest).

Or that all elves were taught and raised to be thieves

All elves have a cultural bent toward both wandering and thievery.

As far as pleasure slaves, the forbidden has always tempted people and made it that more apealing, especially the rich.

Fucking an elf would be seen by absolutely everyone in the nobility and templarate as a horrifying idea, and a total breach of good manners. It doesn't matter how "forbidden" or "exotic" it would seem, it would be complete political suicide for a noble to use an elf as a pleasure slave. If an elf was acquired for the purpose of sex, it's almost guaranteed this would be done in total secrecy and the elf would be executed afterwards.

As far as labor slaves go, since when did what type of workload a being was capable of ever stop the use of them as free labor, perhaps slavery is less cruel in arms than it is in the real world.

Elves are used as "free labor" when they are captured. They are then worked to death, or die in the criminal justice system.

Elves make very poor slaves, and it is extremely rare to find an elven slave. Most elves simply run away or contrive to escape at the earliest opportunity. If they do not escape, they are usually too frail to survive harsh discipline, and normally wither into uselessness in captivity.

It seems more a case that elves are less common as slaves simply becuase its typically cheaper and easier to control the other races.

Your preference and opinion are not in line with what the documentation clearly states.

[AmandaGreathouse]

From the Elven roleplay document:

Elves highly distrust anyone who is not part of their immediate family, or of their tribe, who has not been tested severely to earn their trust. Elves will go to great lengths to contrive and execute these tests, even to the point of putting their own lives at risk. All elves have a cultural bent toward both wandering and thievery. Among elves, theft is not a crime, per se, but more of a test of courage.

Now, there are almost always exceptions to the rules, on some levels, but as a generality, the elf will 'not' trust you. And, having been stolen from by most of the elves you've come across (may be fact, may be racist generalization based on being born and raised in a society which believes this), you probably won't 'want' to get to know the elf. But, just to show how backward they are, they'll try and get somebody -killed- to make you prove you're worth trust? How could you want to trust someone as mentally backward and fucked up as that. I mean, sure, sometimes you don't have a choice and you can't avoid needing an elf for something, but only a total dipshit would want to spend time with one. [Once again, written from a basically generic IG human perspective, just going on one paragraph of the elven traits listed if you look at their documentation. This doesn't include such winners as 'That thieving fucking sharp thinks he's -better- than all humans.' or 'That dumbass skinny wouldn't ride a beetle, so that's why our contract took twice as long as expected, sarge.']

Sure, you can play an exception. But remember the ignorance and hatred that makes Zalanthas go 'round and don't be surprised if you're looked at like a 3-headed kank in the process.

[Spoon]

Don't worry Nyx, it's not as simple as humans hate elves and elves hate humans. They don't universally hate each other. My thinking is that there is a clash. Humans IG, just like us, are successful because of their ability to adapt and exploit. Elves are not easily exploited for a number of reasons (see Gimf's list). From an average human's perspective elves are literally like vermin. The sight of a rat doesn't have to have your character's blood boil unless they really hate rats. They still know rats will eat anything then can get their paws on.

As for the list though, I was under the impression from the docs that before all other considerations elves don't make good slaves because they will try to run away more so than any other slave, and because they don't last long in captivity.

[Gimfalisette]

As for the list though, I was under the impression from the docs that before all other considerations elves don't make good slaves because they will try to run away more so than any other slave, and because they don't last long in captivity.

Yes. The list illustrates not why elves don't make good slaves overall, but why when they are used as slaves they're not used for any purpose but labor. The OP's original question involved an elf being used as a pleasure slave. I was explaining why, even if an elf was a slave, they would never be used for that purpose--or any purpose other than labor.

[Spoon]

It seems more a case that elves are less common as slaves simply becuase its typically cheaper and easier to control the other races.

Your preference and opinion are not in line with what the documentation clearly states.

We're basically saying the same thing, it just bugs me that the new player got a battering for having an interpretation that isn't entirely incorrect at all. Slavers know people don't want elven slaves because they run away. It sure is a cheaper/easier option to go for any other slave, so there's no business for it. Your post is full of opinion, like how an elf would be a poorer choice as a guard or soldier. That isn't in line with any docs.

[Gimfalisette]

it just bugs me that the new player got a battering for having an interpretation that isn't entirely incorrect at all.

Stating what is in the documentation, and what is in the world, is not "a battering." There's no reason to characterize it as such. There was no name-calling, there was no "STFU newb lol." In fact, after I posted (orginally, a couple days ago), I even privately PMed the OP to link her to the helpers list, to personally recommend a helper I think is very helpful, to let her know that Nyr is not scary and she should email him, and to let her know that I was also willing to answer any questions she might have. Battering? Nope, clearly not.

The rest of what you've said to me seems to be based on you being pissed off that I have "battered" a newb, rather than on an actual desire to discuss the documentation and the gameworld, so I'm not going to bother to respond.

[Spoon]

i only said it bugged me. I just don't want new players to be scared off. Of course I'm unaware you sent a PM, because you posted anyway. I sorry I picked up on the patronising tone which you're now using on me and thought it might turn a new player away.

I'm aware this isn't on topic anymore, but you can't claim not to be responding for the sake of the thread while making me out to be some kind of pissed off ass with a grudge.

[Jingo]

I actually think I've seen an elf pleasure slave at some point back in the day.

[Spider]

Act out and get wise isn't something someone who's been a slave their whole life can do. Simply put, they would only know what's taught to them.

I see what you mean, but I believe an elf would figure out that, if a slave, that they are not in a tribe at all. And thus would become the tribe themselves, such as an orphan elf. Becoming ridiculously narcissistic, and flee, or become completely rebellious. I just don't see it as possible to enslave a crew of elven slaves for a long period of time. Some things about being a slave goes against what is innate in elves.

The documentation states that elves makes bad slaves. I suppose just following it instead of hypothesizing why is best.

[spawnloser]

Actually, no, just following the documentation instead of figuring out why you should follow the documentation isn't the answer.  You have to examine your character's wants/desires/thoughts/needs, and you must figure out why your character does what your character does... and when you know, you can start using thinks and feels so much better, which means that your character will be more real to those that can monitor those, like staff.

Elves make poor slaves because they feel no loyalty to anyone but members of their tribe.  Their owners are not members of their tribe.

[Oleupata]

This thread has served its purpose, and then some.