An Idea about Waying Offline People

[Gimfalisette]

I'd like to see more use of the bulletin boards. Change them to vnpc objects, such as, "A group of people gossip near the bar."

More use of bulletin boards would be workable under two conditions:

1. Messages need to automatically roll off so that there is always room for 1 more message and the board doesn't get full.

2. The board is more specific to a particular location, such as a tavern or market area, because currently they are "the whole city is talking about this" and thus you (ok, me) will get smacked by the imms for using them too much.

[Gimfalisette]

Actually, come to think of it, I believe we've previously discussed turning the IC bulletin boards into NPCs who can spread rumors, instead. The NPC would keep only the rumors they have themselves been told, and they'd want a bribe in exchange, and possibly be bribe-able to coerce the info out of them as to who told them the rumor. I'd much prefer that to bulletin boards at all.

But that's still not a substitute for a better system of directing messages to one particular PC.

[Rhyden]

What Gimf said. I'd love to see a more flexible bulletin board system to coordinate ooc playtimes and rpts IG. Basically, I want to rid the GDB clan forums for the sole purpose that anyone could be reading them.

Well, that's not really what I meant. I meant I want to use writing on physical objects in game (paper, scrolls, books) more widely to communicate IC info. But there will always be a need to communicate OOCly as well; certain things simply cannot be coordinated ICly.

I want both! But like Zoltan said, we'll have to wait for Reborn for your literacy idea.

[AmandaGreathouse]

For examples of people not responding while logged out, I can think of a very simple, very subtle, and not 'overly' jarring solution.

While the PC is a VNPC and recieving messages, instead of the sender seeing that they send a telepathic message to the pretty, tressy-curled woman, they see they send it to 'a' pretty, tressy-curled woman.

Since already, most NPCs have 'a' instead of 'the' to come before their sdesc.

And, really, I don't see the issue with someone being able to tell if you're dead by not being able to contact you with the way for a long ass time. If your character is around and a VNPC all the time, the other player 'should' be able to take not being able to find your PCs head for an IG month to take it as your PC is dead/barriered, not trying to guess if it's that or that YOU the PLAYER have simply changed playtimes.

Though I do think that being able to toggle whether or not you get messages while offline is a good idea. I wouldn't use it, but it's a good idea. People love options.

[Lizzie]

Amanda, the "solution" you offer is pretty much how it used to be, until people abused the knowledge that someone was not online, by using the Way to find that information out. And then, that ability to know, was removed.

People would contact someone..and see something different when you simply couldn't find their mind, vs. when they were logged out/dead. You would KNOW- that the person was not logged in. And then, you would KNOW< that it was safe to rob their apartment. Or fuck their husband. Or kill their partner. Or set up the evil deed, knowing that your character would be oblivious, because you know, by using the Way to find a "special message" that the player is currently not available to access their character - whether due to being dead, or not logged on.

This is not a straw man. It is EXACTLY how it used to be. I've read the threads dating back to when they made the change.

And since that isn't an option, then you end up with something that does -not- let the sender know, that the receiver's player was not there to respond. When that happens, the sender has no way of knowing if they should be pissed that someone IS around, but didn't respond, or if the player of the sender needs to just let it slide, because the player of the receiver was not logged in.

Furthermore, if the character is dead, the sender would not have to wait even a day to find out. ALl they'd have to do is try and contact the character. If the sender was unable to contact them, then they're dead. If they are able to contact them, then they're not dead. Unless the player of the receiver had a good enough barrier that they could actually put one up before the player logged out. Which - most new characters can't do, and require IC practice to get good at it, and why? So that they can get past an OOC device such as their player not being logged in and not wanting to get IC messages while they're not logged in?

No sense. It makes..zero sense. Not to mention the annoyance of logging in to discover that you have a dozen messages..

[Synthesis]

And since that isn't an option, then you end up with something that does -not- let the sender know, that the receiver's player was not there to respond. When that happens, the sender has no way of knowing if they should be pissed that someone IS around, but didn't respond, or if the player of the sender needs to just let it slide, because the player of the receiver was not logged in.

What's the problem with this, exactly?  If someone delays getting back to you via the Way and doesn't have a valid excuse, I think it would be perfectly reasonable to be peeved.  I certainly don't think it would be any more annoying than say, not being able to contact said character AT ALL because they're logged out.  After all:  what's to stop people now from accusing people who are logged out from using a barrier to avoid receiving their intended messages?  The answer:  common fucking sense among the playerbase--exactly what would prevail if the proposed system were implemented.

Furthermore, if the character is dead, the sender would not have to wait even a day to find out. ALl they'd have to do is try and contact the character. If the sender was unable to contact them, then they're dead. If they are able to contact them, then they're not dead. Unless the player of the receiver had a good enough barrier that they could actually put one up before the player logged out. Which - most new characters can't do, and require IC practice to get good at it, and why? So that they can get past an OOC device such as their player not being logged in and not wanting to get IC messages while they're not logged in?

Why should you have to wait for MONTHS to declare someone dead?  If someone is your employee and you talk to them every single day...wouldn't you reasonably notice if they turn up missing and drop off the Waydar?

No sense. It makes..zero sense. Not to mention the annoyance of logging in to discover that you have a dozen messages..

So in short:  yes, it does make sense.  At least, just as much sense as the current system.

[AmandaGreathouse]

Agree with Synthesis here.

Why should you have to wait for MONTHS to declare someone dead?  If someone is your employee and you talk to them every single day...wouldn't you reasonably notice if they turn up missing and drop off the Waydar?

[more words]

in short:  yes, it does make sense.  At least, just as much sense as the current system.

[musashi]

Ugh, Lizzie's ideas make my brain hurt.  

[Zoltan]

Lizzie's ideas make me nod emphatically in agreement. 

Seriously, though, I agree on absolutely every point. Of course, this is coming from the guy who felt a little twinky when I gave the minions in my last clan an invitation to PM me a play time if they -absolutely, positively needed to see my characterbutitslikehesneveraroundohgod-.

I think what it all comes down to is that in my personal experience, and in my opinion, a change like this just isn't necessary.

[flurry]

I wouldn't want to see something like this, either. The thought of having this in place while playing a leadership role is the stuff of nightmares. I can imagine being flooded with various questions and requests, if I chose to leave the option 'on', and then of course expected to deal with all of it. (I can remember, hardly more than a year ago, facing some pretty harsh IC consequences from a templar, apparently due to my own OOC availability. This would only make situations like that worse, IMHO, but setting up even more unrealistic expectations of players of leader characters. I don't want my characters to be reachable around the clock.)

I think the unreliability of communication in Zalanthas is a good thing. Yes, it is frustrating at times, especially for newer players. But this seems like it would take things much too far in the other direction. It would become trivially easy to have discussions over the Way, back and forth, over extended periods of time as if corresponding by email. That seems like a radical change to the game, unless I'm misunderstanding the proposal somehow.

[Synthesis]

It would become trivially easy to have discussions over the Way, back and forth, over extended periods of time as if corresponding by email.

What exactly is the problem with this?

As opposed to:  not having discussions at all, because you can't sufficiently coordinate playtimes?

The opposition currently seems to be:  "we've adjusted to the nonsense and frustration we already have to deal with.  Don't rock the boat!"

[flurry]

As others have suggested, I'd rather have literacy or ooc bulletin boards over psionic email.

[MarshallDFX]

This already happens, just change those psionic messages with failed contact messages and change the think to: For fuck's sake is everyone sleeping!?

Except it is a lot faster, and I don't sit around wondering whether they just missed the way due to movement spam, or what.

Definitely definitely prefer a letter-delivery/NPC message holder system.

[Salt Merchant]

I don't want to log in to a bunch of messages telling me someone needs this, and someone else demands that, and someone else asks for a third thing. Frankly, it would just discourage me from logging in at all.

Pity the poor leader character that is immediately inundanted with his underling's problems, who doesn't even get that blessed few minutes of independence before the contacts begin.

If anything, I think the Way should be removed except for mindbenders. Why does the game need it? People used to argue it was to help characters find each other for some RP, but the staff stance seems to indicate this is no longer a concern (e.g removing 'who c').

[spawnloser]

First, if anyone suggests that the Way should give a different message when someone is offline versus online, I will kindly ask you to sit this one out.  When using an IC skill/ability, it should never tell you if someone else is logged in... because that's OOC information.

Second, I will never play a GMH member again if anything like this goes in.  I expect everyone currently playing one to throttle anyone in support of this idea, if it goes in.

Finally, still noone has addressed the targetting issue.  The way the code works, we could have 1000 Amoses that are all "the tall, strapping man."  How does one verify that the message will get to the right person?

[Lizzie]

100% in agreement with Spawnloser.

Ergo, we are both correct.

[Tzurahro]

We could mail out electric shock-collars to some players, triggered by such ALERTS when their PC has been contacted by the Way when off-line.

Just... you know... as a thought.

[Gimfalisette]

We could mail out electric shock-collars to some players, triggered by such ALERTS when their PC has been contacted by the Way when off-line.

Just... you know... as a thought.

OK, now I'm behind the idea. Objective obviously is to not get a collar put on me, while making maximum use of buzzing another player's collar.

[Myrdryn]

We could mail out electric shock-collars to some players, triggered by such ALERTS when their PC has been contacted by the Way when off-line.

Just... you know... as a thought.

Send the way messages via SMS instant message.

[AmandaGreathouse]

We could mail out electric shock-collars to some players, triggered by such ALERTS when their PC has been contacted by the Way when off-line.

Just... you know... as a thought.

OK, now I'm behind the idea. Objective obviously is to not get a collar put on me, while making maximum use of buzzing another player's collar.

Oh? I can haz collar, Gimf?

Also:
 Though it wasn't for a ridiculously long amount of time, I recently played a leader pc roll myself, and in a clan with what amounted to about 20 underling pcs. I never had time to do much more than give orders and take reports as it was, but I'm still behind the idea.

[Synthesis]

This just in:  player plays middle-management PC and has to perform middle-management duties.


More at 11.

[flurry]

Of course those roles involve management duties. But there have to be reasonable limits to what can be expected of players willing to take on those roles. This kind of change would alter those expectations in a major way, and not for the better, I think.

[musashi]

100% in agreement with Spawnloser.

Ergo, we are both correct.

*facepalm* The OP did not suggest people should get a different message when someone is online vs. when they are offline. You have both missed ... ... the point.

[mansa]

We could mail out electric shock-collars to some players, triggered by such ALERTS when their PC has been contacted by the Way when off-line.

Just... you know... as a thought.

Send the way messages via SMS instant message.

Oooooooo.  I like.

[Salt Merchant]

This just in... Armageddon is a game, not a primary responsibility.