Sparring NPC's!

[RogueGunslinger]

So, A hunter can go out and practice his skill on all the coded wildlife out there, but if you're clanned, and limited to the city, and often play off-peak where no one is around to train your soldiers skills up, You're pretty much left dead in the silt when it comes to skill progression.

I propose sparring dummies have the ability for limited skill gain using combat code, or archery. As it is you can never fail to hit a dummy, therefore never get any better. I don't really know how to implement this, but I'm sure a workaround could be made.

I know everyone thinks this would end in everyone twinking their offense and defense skills, but I think over-training should be considered abuse just like over-hunting, and subject to the same punishments.

Check out Synth's Idea!

You know, with the new disengage command in, it wouldn't be difficult to have actual sparring NPCs that appeared during appropriate sparring periods.

Add a 'talk sparring' script to it, give it decent (but not uber) skills, and have it automatically disengage when its target is wounded to a certain point, or flee when it's wounded to a certain point.

[Synthesis]

So, A hunter can go out and practice his skill on all the coded wildlife out there, but if you're clanned, and limited to the city, and often play off-peak where no one is around to train your soldiers skills up, You're pretty much left dead in the silt when it comes to skill progression.

I propose sparring dummies have the ability for limited skill gain using combat code, or archery. As it is you can never fail to hit a dummy, therefore never get any better. I don't really know how to implement this, but I'm sure a workaround could be made.

I know everyone thinks this would end in everyone twinking their offense and defense skills, but I think over-training should be considered abuse just like over-hunting, and subject to the same punishments.

All you'd have to do is code the dummies with an increased agility and/or base defense, and people would be able to miss them.

That being said:  have you ever actually tried firing an arrow at a training dummy? You might be surprised at the results.

[X-D]

That being said:  have you ever actually tried firing an arrow at a training dummy? You might be surprised at the results.

Other then a staffer coming and eating your face?

Every clan I've played that has them states very specific things to not do.

[brytta.leofa]

That being said:  have you ever actually tried firing an arrow at a training dummy? You might be surprised at the results.

Other then a staffer coming and eating your face?

Every clan I've played that has them states very specific things to not do.

Pretty sure the last word I heard on this is that We Think It Causes Problems With a Script.

Archery seems stupid-impossible to practice for people who don't hunt.  Rather like backstab, I suppose.

[Good Gortok]

This is a serious problem for most clanned players and, as mentioned, especially off-peak. It gets to the point where being a soldier is by far the slowest way to become a skilled combatant, whereas someone prowling the rinth or hunting hawks will improve multiple times faster than the guy sitting around in the militia barracks or the Tor academy. Sparring dummies are pitifully insufficient as a means to provide training because they don't strike back and because you almost can't miss them even with a warrior or ranger right out of the box. Maybe you can improve your offense/weapon a few points and that's it.

Our sister-RPI has sparring NPCs in most clans that are meant to provide combat training. Anyone in the clan can simply spar with the NPCs if noone is around, and everything is fine as long as you're being reasonable about it. I've never heard of anyone using it too much or having it taken away due to abuse. This, of course, would not work on Armageddon for two reasons:

1) Here we have to fight tooth and nail to prevent twinking due to the mentality that the game fosters. Playing Arm for any length of time will give most players an ingrained instinct to push the code to the max, even at the expense of realism, and this is because the rules span the limits of the code and not the limits of realism. If it's possible, it's allowed. If it's possible, people will do it. This is why you can at any given time find half a dozen random commoner NPCs dead in Allanak or Tuluk, or twice as many in the much smaller rinth.

2) Armageddon's health system allows you to recover from near-death experiences in a matter of minutes. This feature is always fiercely defended as a playability compromise, although it seems common knowledge that ICly recovering from poor condition in the time it takes to sleep full is considered twinkish. I don't know why it's still possible, but the fact that it is rules out any automated venues of training as people could literally spar constantly all day with minimal downtime.

This is why the most we can get is a sparring dummy that doesn't do a damn thing.

[RogueGunslinger]

Pretty thin argument, if you ask me.

[Synthesis]

You know, with the new disengage command in, it wouldn't be difficult to have actual sparring NPCs that appeared during appropriate sparring periods.

Add a 'talk sparring' script to it, give it decent (but not uber) skills, and have it automatically disengage when its target is wounded to a certain point, or flee when it's wounded to a certain point.

[RogueGunslinger]

I like that....

[MarshallDFX]

This is why you can at any given time find half a dozen random commoner NPCs dead in Allanak or Tuluk, or twice as many in the much smaller rinth.

I have not seen this.

[Olgaris]

While I think Good Gortok's ideas are both strange and inaccurate, I can agree that you will not see a sparring dummy that is useful to improve your skills.

However, good RP with a sparring dummy, logged, and sent in using the request tool can see a skill bump.

[RogueGunslinger]

However, good RP with a sparring dummy, logged, and sent in using the request tool can see a skill bump.

This is tedious and more work on staff and players than a coded solution.

I can agree that you will not see a sparring dummy that is useful to improve your skills.

How about sparing npc's?

You know, with the new disengage command in, it wouldn't be difficult to have actual sparring NPCs that appeared during appropriate sparring periods.

Add a 'talk sparring' script to it, give it decent (but not uber) skills, and have it automatically disengage when its target is wounded to a certain point, or flee when it's wounded to a certain point.

[IntuitiveApathy]

I think one thing that could be done for the off-peakers is to build upon the new clan-pay code and introduce virtual training for the clans where this makes sense to have.

If a PC is in a clan where they should be trained in combat as part of their job, then why not allow for a virtual clan-training script much like the clan-pay code?  It could be at a very low-level, ie. you get one skill point per IC month, or IC year, or whatever interval of time, so long as your PC hasn't actually earned the skill increase by other means.  In other words, the off-peakers who don't have any opportunity to train with their fellow PC clanmates, or be taught by their PC leaders, should be considered to be virtually trained by the clan VNPC's.  These off-peak PC's, while potentially spending just as much time in these clans as peak PC's, just don't have the same opportunity to improve their characters for entirely OOC reasons, which in no way match what's going on IC.  And this just leads to situations that make zero sense: "That's right, I've been in the Legions for years."  *gets crap kicked out of them by a month-in trainee.*  "Uhh, I just had an off day.  Yeah.. that's it."

For those of you worried about abuse, you could also put a cap on this type of virtual training, again to whatever level makes sense.

This doesn't necessarily have to be limited to combat clans either, but it is for combat clans that this problem is most acute.

[Riev]

I kind of agree with this idea, mostly because I've been in clans where you sometimes don't -get- to have PC-PC sparring or training for upwards of a RL week. I understand its "not about code" and blah blah blah, but you've got to understand, some people just don't get the opportunity to advance codedly realistically.

Sure, you could RP out 5 training sessions that each take a RL hour, and send them in to get a 1% bump in skill if you're lucky. And thats if your RP is deemed worthy, AND if the staff believes you deserve the bump. There's a lot of factors in asking for skills/skill bumps. If your character is in the Byn, during a time when there are literally -zero- other PCs to train with, what do you do? Sit around for a year in bars? Spend your mornings in a training hall with a custom ldesc? I'd rather -play- the game, than simply exist in it (which is apparently what I do now)

[musashi]

However, good RP with a sparring dummy, logged, and sent in using the request tool can see a skill bump result in you being told that staff doesn't give skill boosts to skills that can be improvded codedly, thus wasting your time.

Sorry Olgaris, my personal experience begged me to fix that.

[Spice Spice Baby]

You can miss sparring dummies in their current incarnation, if your skills are low enough. I've done it on multiple characters.

Not that I think they're great, but it can happen.

[Salt Merchant]

It wouldn't have to be a sparring dummy.  There could be an NPC that "understands" how to spar, one that wields a sparring weapon, disengages if the opponent gets too beaten up and flees if the opponent doesn't break after it indicates it's done. It would come and go according to the clan's training schedule too.

The sparring NPC wouldn't be all that tough, so returns on sparring with it would diminish past a certain basic skill level. Since its level of skill would remain constant, PCs might have more of a sense of progress than they do sparring each other too.

How would it different from sparring with a PC, really?

[Riev]

The biggest argument against this, I would think, is it would give people -more- of a reason to not leave compounds as they could just spar with the dummy.

The biggest argument against -that-, is that each clan has a schedule for a reason, and anything that keeps people on that schedule is A OK in my book.

[flurry]

I don't necessarily want improved sparring dummies or automated skill bumps, but I wonder if the issue of restrictive clan rules plus off-peak player (or empty clan) needs more of a solution than a case-by-case evaluation of roleplay logs. To me, that approach works great for exceptional situations, but if the problem is more widespread (I don't know, is it?), then I'd prefer to see it addressed some other way. Ideally, I mean. I'm a dreamer.

[brytta.leofa]

In many clan compounds, the sparring dummies are only set out for a couple hours a day, anyway.  From an abuse perspective, sparring NPCs seem pretty harmless.

[musashi]

In many clan compounds, the sparring dummies are only set out for a couple hours a day, anyway.  From an abuse perspective, sparring NPCs seem pretty harmless.

+1. I really don't think sparring NPC's would be a bad thing at all. Quite the opposite, they would reward folks who are spending time online, following their clan's rigid training schedule with the IC expectation that such people who devote their days to training for war might actually be better at fighting than say ... a hunter who kills scrab.

Right now all a recruit level PC on a training schedule is doing (if alone) is solo-RP'ing for naught while indie characters can go bash mobs in the wild for skill gain.

[Gimfalisette]

+1 to having a sparring NPC so that off-peakers or those playing in underpopulated clans can feel like they're not totally wasting their time.

[Zoltan]

I never thought I'd say this, but I have to agree on this one.

[brytta.leofa]

Downside: and you thought the staff got mad when we used DUMMIES for archery/throw/backstab/charge practice...

[musashi]

Downside: and you thought the staff got mad when we used DUMMIES for archery/throw/backstab/charge practice...

lulz

[Delstro]

They only got mad when the sparring dummy chases you around the sparring halls.