True Names?

[musashi]

I figured it was because you liked drinking.

[Pale Horse]

I figured it was because you liked drinking.

Isn't that what I was pointing out? 

[musashi]

Yay!

[spicemustflow]

I love the idea of true names, and always thought it existed in Zalanthas, whether my char was aware of it or not. Actually most people have some idea about it, since you frequently hear that someone who's hiring leaves only his name as a contact information.

Now, people can leave an addkeyworded nickname as a contact info, which means that... yes names, given or earned are a part of what you are somehow. Which gives plenty of space for mystical and superstitious RP. Or it's just that I like to think about that.

[Rotten]

Problem : there's nothing mystic about true names in Zalanthas.  They're just the name chosen at character creation.

[X-D]

How exactly do you know that?

I mean, your wrong, but still.

[ibusoe]

Problem : there's nothing mystic about true names in Zalanthas.  They're just the name chosen at character creation.

True.

And furthermore, we're running into all kinds of game mechanics problems.

Example -- someone decides to call your character John Dillinger
Results -- staff forces you to add John and Dillinger as keywords
Results -- you can be instantly identified in a crowd of 300 people whenever someone types "look Dillinger" even if you're wearing two cloaks, a veil, a facemask, three facewraps, sunglasses, and three layers of teen-age girl makeup.

[ibusoe]

How exactly do you know that?

I mean, your wrong, but still.

Seems like we've reached the point where we're arguing instead of discussing.  And it also seems like both sides have valid points but there is no central consensus.

[X-D]

I was replying to Rotten Ibusoe.

I actually agree that there should be a way around the problem you posted.

I remember a few years ago somebody left nak, stayed gone for a while, did all the RP to get desc changes and such. came back quite some game time later and on a lark I checked on a keyword in a tavern and wow, there they are.

I still played it that my PC did not know who they were...but still.

[Lizzie]

I was replying to Rotten Ibusoe.

I actually agree that there should be a way around the problem you posted.

I remember a few years ago somebody left nak, stayed gone for a while, did all the RP to get desc changes and such. came back quite some game time later and on a lark I checked on a keyword in a tavern and wow, there they are.

I still played it that my PC did not know who they were...but still.

Amos doesn't count. However...to defend against Ibusoe's argument...if I saw some guy wearing two masks, two cloaks, three facewraps, a pair of sunslits, and girlish teenage makeup, and hear someone call him John Dillinger, you can bet your ass that when I try to look at John Dillinger, that is EXACTLY who I will be looking at. I will -not- be looking at the red-eyed dwarf wearing a loincloth and walking around barefoot, even if he does have his hood up.

[Rhyden]

I think Ibusoe was pointing out the little difference between seeing John Dillenger as the tall, muscular man and with two cloaks, masks, etc. while still being able to identify him based on his 'true name'. It's a good argument, but probably difficult to rectify with the code.

[Lizzie]

Right, but if I heard him called John Dillinger, then that's what he'd be, to me. If I heard him called Daisy Buchanan, then that's what he'd be to me. It wouldn't matter if it was his true name or not. Whatever name I know him as, is whatever name I know him as. If I hear that he's called five different names, then I will know that he's called five different names. If I hear all five of those names, then I will know him as all five. I might not know which one is his "true" name but RPwise, it won't matter.

[SmashedTregil]

Shrug. The first character I played knew the concept of true names. Long before I learned their significance in a coded way, my characters differentiated their 'true' name and 'other' names. Simply because I felt that's what my characters would do. It creates an awesome roleplay tool, when you're capable of showing trust to some other person by giving them your true name. 

[Jingo]

Wha'?

[Riev]

Along with what ST is saying, most of the time my characters take their birth-name as something for family. You earn nicknames, like Tulukis earn tattoos, over the course of your life with your action or inaction.

To give someone your birth name isn't something mystical, its just a sign of trust. For me, at least.

[jstorrie]

It may or may not be true that true names are important to sorcery, elementalism, psionics, or some other sort of wacky Zalanthan mumbo-jumbo in-game, but for obvious reasons we can not discuss that.

[Dalmeth]

How exactly do you know that?

I mean, your wrong, but still.

It's this kind of stuff that is very not helpful.

You're wrong.  There isn't an IC justification for true names beyond targeting for certain very specific skills.

For the rest of the playerbase, for almost every character on Zalanthas, they don't exist.  They're a player-made concept to explain away code realities, and it's jarring.  Also, it doesn't matter if the staff developed these explanations, 'cause they're still stupid.

I have two solutions, either let the rest of the world know about them or remove their relevancy entirely.  Call them the name the person in particular most associates with themselves, and therefore has the most presence over the Way.  Anything.  It's just something like that should be widely known.  The strict absence of mystical-level knowledge for the majority of the population of the game world is another OOC construct.  It is one to keep everyone from knowing too much about the workings of magickers and psionicists and three-fingered, five-headed toads, the limit of such knowledge being another grey area, but it strangles any attempt for the average character to deal with these mystical concepts that face them everyday in an IC manner.

There's two options for fixing.  Discuss.

[Yseulte]

How exactly do you know that?

I mean, your wrong, but still.

It's this kind of stuff that is very not helpful.

You're wrong.  There isn't an IC justification for true names beyond targeting for certain very specific skills.

For the rest of the playerbase, for almost every character on Zalanthas, they don't exist.  They're a player-made concept to explain away code realities, and it's jarring.  Also, it doesn't matter if the staff developed these explanations, 'cause they're still stupid.

No. X-D is right, you are wrong in this case.

True names have a very significant role to a majority of the characters on Zalanthas whether the player realizes or not. This very well could have began as a player-created notion and adopted later by staff. This is something that is vital to many clans/tribes/areas of the world.

Just because you lack this information doesn't make those who possess it 'wrong'. This tradition in Zalanthas is no more jarring or 'stupid' then several of the cultures in our world who believe that giving away your 'true name' the name of your birth, gives away a power with it even your soul. This was a very big, very vital belief within several Native American tribes and even within early peoples of eastern and southern Europe. It is also a very common practice in fantasy settings.

[Spice Spice Baby]

This is something that is vital to many clans/tribes/areas of the world.

Yep, this.

I can think of at least three cultures in the game that I've played in where a person's true name or birth name are considered very culturally important and the individual in question will go their entire lives hopefully revealing that name to nobody but family or a trusted inner circle.

[jhunter]

Because of OOC abuse regarding "true names" I'd rather they had no significance codedly at all.

[Rotten]

Hrm, that wasn't supposed to go here.

[Dalmeth]

True names have a very significant role to a majority of the characters on Zalanthas whether the player realizes or not.

So why aren't they allowed to know it?

That's my problem.  You point out a few isolated situations where players have been allowed to work with true names, and yet still, the general population is not allowed to know about them.  All you've done is convince me that the concept is worked too deep into the game to remove.  Many consider it abuse of IC information to use the knowledge that true names do exist over characters, in spite of the fact they are mentioned in the, "help contact," file, and in spite of the fact it is a mechanical feature of the reality used in the game.  Why must the fact that true names exist be secret?

Code Select Expand

Psi Contact  (Communication)

The contact command will allow your character to attempt to establish a direct mental link with another person in the world. It is necessary to create this link in order to perform a majority of psi commands, and in order to cast some powerful spells. Contacting others is a skill that only increases with practice. The cease command is used to sever the psionic link.

Contacts can be blocked by psionic barriers, sleep, and areas of magickal suppression. As with all sustained psionic powers, the cease command will cut the mental link. The duration of a direct mental link is dependent upon your character's wisdom attribute and skill proficiency.

Syntax:
    contact <keyword> [keyword+]
    -or-
    contact #.keyword

    psi <message>
    cease

    Examples:
    > contact plain brown human

    > contact 3.stubby

    > contact Boopsie
    > psi How's it going, milord?
    > cease

    Note:
    Getting the message that you cannot reach their mind is a normal
    occurrence. You may lack sufficient skill with the Way to find their
    mind, or that person may not be available. You do not need to know
    someone's name in order to contact them -- one or more keywords can
    be specified instead.

    Using multiple keywords is interpreted as forming a more complete
    picture of the person you intend to contact, and increases your chances
    of reaching their mind.

    [b]Likewise, using a person's true name is a powerful means of increasing
    your chances of contacting them.[/b]

    You can only specify a number argument as the first argument, and
    if you do, any extra keywords you specified will be ignored.

    Some players choose to portray images or their own feelings over
    a psionic link and this is allowed. However, forcing emotions,
    sensations, or thoughts onto the receiver is not acceptable.

    See also:
    cease, contact, Psionics


Taken straight from the help files.  If I was a person fresh into the game, I'd wonder what a true name was.  There's no further explanation.  They'd have to hear whisperings of other players or play in these few clans that are familiar with the concept to know that everyone in fact has a true name, and that name is the one they chose at character creations.  That's the part I hate about it most.  The knowledge is spread through OOC means.  It's a concept that just about every character who's lived in a reasonably stable environment should know about, but they don't 'cause this concept sprouted organically through the game.  So make it official.

Here's an example :

Code Select Expand


A true name is a side effect of the use of psionics.   It is the name a particular
creature most associates with itself and therefore responds to most readily.  As
the true name is often the most direct method one may use to establish a strong,
psionic link, some prefer to use it sparingly.   Some families even give two
naming ceremonies for their children :  one for the name they think their child
will take as their true name and another for the one they will use in public.

Generally speaking, your true name will be the name you chose at character creation.


See?  Easy.

[Case]

Could just expand targetting on things people use nicknames to avoid? That'd make some people harden up instead of metagaming up ways around it then justifying it vehemently. Have your truenames, but have your coded targetting too

[Yseulte]

Many consider it abuse of IC information to use the knowledge that true names do exist over characters, in spite of the fact they are mentioned in the, "help contact," file, and in spite of the fact it is a mechanical feature of the reality used in the game. Why must the fact that true names exist be secret?

I have never run into anyone IC or OOC that felt or acted in a way that the knowledge that true names simply exist in the world was some how abusive. I have seen some players abuse true names only in that they somehow found out the character's true names through OOC means and then used it in a situation that would require a true name when in fact there was no IC way they could have known. These people of course were punished for their abuse.

The existence of true names is not a secret, considering there is tidbits of them throughout the documentation. Like many other things in Zalanthas, you simply have to play to find out more. I would suggest playing in some of the tribal clans as a start.

[SmashedTregil]

As mentioned earlier

During my first character, I knew of 'no' coded benefits about hiding your true name, and yet I still did it. The reason ? Because true names are universally considered something 'special', and so my character adopted it. Due to that I am of strong believe that the concept of hiding true names is 'not' due to code abuse, but very much thematically correct. For the simple reason that I did it instinctively, when I knew 'nothing' of ... anything Arm related, what 'so' evar.