Seeya!

[Decameron]

Yes, changes can be implemented to either City of the game, in terms of construction.

Yes, that particular tavern you've mentioned was completely player driven.

Yes, it can constitute a change, but by no means an instant one .. that has taken 18 months to get to it's current state.

It's still an on-going process, and the matter can be found out ICly, in regards to the construction or changes being developed to any building or construction project in game. All it takes is the question, "What's that?"

It's like anything else in the game. You'll can put your heart and soul into something, and watch others fade away around you as you strive to reach that goal.  Nothing comes easy, and nothing happens in a week, a month, or even in some cases a year. However, if your patient and dedicated enough, you might just see that you've done something that will always remain in game, far outliving your character.*

*Until they change the version of the game the day after you're done, and burn your dreams to the ground.

Can we stop talking about IC projects now? I realize it's just an example but still..

[jcljules]

I'm of the opinion that IC time should move more quickly. So that more things can get accomplished more easily without adversely affecting realism. I'm sorry, but 18 RL Months is too long to accomplish something in a virtual world. I could build a tavern in real life in less time than that.

[Salt Merchant]

Also Salt Merchant... If you don't like the way things are going in Allanak, perhaps you either need to:
A) Play somewhere else.
B) Take a leadership role in Allanak and change the things you don't like.
C) Suck it up, and keep playing like you're playing.
D) Don't.

Nothing you've said at all is constructive, and most of it has been ramblings of ignorance.
Just because you don't see it, doesn't mean it isn't happening.

You people are in fine fettle today, aren't you? Excuse me for my ramblings of ignorance and lack of a clue.

I wish you all would display more of a talent for separating your egos from a debate and sticking to the points at hand instead of making it personal.

My characters have walked the length and breadth of Allanak. Admittedly they haven't poked into the Noble's Quarter or the Templar's Quarter much of late, although it's not the nobles and templars I'm talking about anyhow. But otherwise, from what I can tell, there has been very, very little change over the past few years. What has come in has mostly been the destructive influence of you know what. Nor can I think of any truly memorable (in a historical sense) commoner.

Concerning being constructive, I've submitted many suggestions and ideas to the staff. Some have even been implemented.

I don't think the aggressive response on the GDB toward anyone airing an issue they have with the game is very productive. There's a very definite tendency among both staff and players to be insulted by any suggestion that something isn't working well, with the reaction being "shut up or leave". Would you really prefer that to happen? Someone who has otherwise been a diligent player just vanish?

There clearly is some angst in the player base about current affairs, one that is surfacing in threads like this one. Holding the lid on can only make it worse.

[FantasyWriter]

Apologies.  My last post was a little snippy..
Yes is it all a matter of perspective.

I've heard horror stories from players over staff "interference" in the past, but since the changes in staff policy a few months ago, I haven't heard of a single instance of staff shooting a plot down, quite the opposite in fact.  People are now fussing about not having -enough- staff involvement in plots.

Just goes to show how you can never please everyone.

Salt Merchant, was your issue Zoltan was referencing before or after the change?

[Bluefae]

     Several observations/reflections as I read this thread:

    1) Feelings obviously run high about some of the themes being explored here.  I can't help but think this is a reflection of our attachment to the game as a community.  

    2) I really enjoy seeing the different perspectives expressed herein.  I'm glad folks are taking the time to articulate their feelings on both OOC and IC experiences.  A few threads running right now have actually deepened my appreciation for how the game has evolved over time (and thus its current context), and this is one of them.  

    3) Having played a beloved, (semi-)sponsored character who literally got the shaft in the end, I think I'm a good candidate for feelings of disaffection towards the Staff if I were so inclined.  I put my heart and soul into playing her while it lasted, and had a vested interest in the outcome (who doesn't?).  Actually, I can honestly say she was the most "goal-driven" of any of my characters to date, both from an IC and OOC perspective (that's roughly four years of play, which, while hardly remarkable in these parts, is long enough to have some sense of how different characters can interface with the world, I believe), and I had imbued her with certain characteristics to facilitate a particular direction.  However, the story unfolded as it should have, really, given that our shared reality is a hellish environment where life is dirt (sand?) cheap, and happy endings almost never come about.  It's like reading some kind of relentless, twisted fairy tale, of the kind that the Brothers Grimm would have been proud to pen.  
    I very much sympathize with LoC's feelings of helplessness, and appreciate the sense of betrayal I get as I read his/her post.  Helplessness, though, is really one of the themes of the game, which all of us who stay in these parts for any length of time have to contend with to greater or lesser degrees (acknowledged code "wizards" such as X-D and his ilk, maybe not so much, but for the rest of us mere mortals the point stands).  That kind of clawing and scraping, the drive to find some way around, through, or under various hurdles to development, both plot- and character-related, is what drives much of the narrative here.  It can be as simple as "How do I feed myself?" to "How do I liberate Tuluk?", but it's ubiquitous.  Not omni-present, but ubiquitous.

    4)  After reading this:  
 

My question being - Why can't that experiment be now? Why the glass ceiling? Why not let clan pcs have authority over their own actions, make decisions which effect a broad range of other individuals, get to lead Merchant Houses, lead their own tribe, etc? It'd assume the same role of giving reports and the like, but would actually give them the authority to make the decisions somewhat on their own than worrying about a now invisible person looking over their shoulder. Sure, it'd be a lonely role - but there are already lonely roles in leadership. Sure, people might screw it up, they might make the wrong decision and send their organizations face first into the sand - but aren't these the type of risks that are supposedly going to be given to pcs in the new version of the game?

    I understand the need for stability.  I really do (or at least think I do, looking at it from a player perspective but also having run numerous role-playing games of my own over the years, both tabletop and LARPs).  I understand (and frequently witness!) PC death, and what that could do to the underlying structure of the MUD if applied to "upper management".  I understand the nightmare of having, say, multiple GMH heads die in a single event, or even a Black Robe croaking in some Krath-awful bloodbath of an HRPT.
    Notwithstanding, I posit that for the very few who have shown, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that they can play a character with that rarest of blends, dynamism coupled with awesome longevity . . . they should get a shot at the Big Time.  Maybe not the very top of the pile, but darn close.  And perhaps the top in their respective stomping grounds.  I don't think it's too IC for me to say that Decameron is one of those rarae aves that has all the elements needed for this as a player:  an iron-clad understanding not only of his character, but also of that character's relationship to the greater world (vital for those who could wreak havok if they upset the "eco-system" of the game); amazingly-consistent rp that's also in-depth and in-sync with the themes of the gameworld (somewhat OOC, but again a "must have" for people who would be occupying what were previously NPC-only heights); and an ability to survive and thrive over the course of multiple large story-arcs and numerous smaller ones.  In my humble opinion, if there were poster-children for the Staff to experiment with in the current incarnation of our desert universe, it would be him and those like him that I, as a player, do not see.

    5) I wonder if some of the reluctance of players to attempt to move into the higher positions is because of the previous (perceived?) impossibility of doing so?  I know someone brought this up earlier (sorry, hon, running out of steam and I can't quite find it right now   ), and I can easily see how a kind of "learned helplessness" could arise from the old way of doing things, if such was actually the case.  I would think that in time, this reluctance would naturally run its course, with its end perhaps hastened by players like Lizzie who tenaciously push at the limits of what's currently  possible (You go, girl!).

    6) I very much hope we continue to honor the various perspectives making themselves known here.  It would be a loss to all of us if the the level of discussion got diminished soley because some of us felt intimidated or marginalized by others.

[Bogre]

Accumulated wealth means little when it can't buy property. Not true.

Show me one example please of a commoner PC even owning a house, or opening a shop, in Allanak.

I had a house. In Allanak. Course I got it 2+ years ago.

[Fathi]

    5) I wonder if some of the reluctance of players to attempt to move into the higher positions is because of the previous (perceived?) impossibility of doing so?  I know someone brought this up earlier (sorry, hon, running out of steam and I can't quite find it right now   ), and I can easily see how a kind of "learned helplessness" could arise from the old way of doing things, if such was actually the case.

I just wanted to touch on this, though I really don't have much else to contribute to the thread. Often times, it isn't a 'perceived' impossibility of doing so, but a clearly-stated impossibility.

I've been told by staff "no, there is no way for a PC to ever be Rank X even if you fulfill the promotion requirements" or "we are no longer allowing players to play Role X even though it's a vital part of the clan and you're still supposed to act like they're around" or "if you attain this rank, we will store your character."

It's frustrating at times, especially when Rank X or Role X is something that many PCs have done in the past--something a previous PC of your own may have done--that added a lot to the game. I assume that the game's staff have a valid reason for wanting to do this, but I understand that to players, it often just looks like either a mistrust of players' ability to handle things... or simply a means to maintain an iron-fisted hold on the status quo.

I don't think anyone minds being told that it's incredibly difficult to rise above the ranks of middle management.

On the other hand, it is discouraging to be told that such a thing is literally impossible and the game will not allow it... for reasons you will never be allowed to know.

[Salt Merchant]

Salt Merchant, was your issue Zoltan was referencing before or after the change?

Well before the past few months.

[Cutthroat]

Perhaps when we get to a year after the most recent staffing policy changes, we can discuss its effectiveness. It seems a lot of the examples of people trying to change things in this thread are old and thus, are of little relevance to the discussion since the policy was changed in an attempt to fix those bad situations. (Correct me if I'm wrong though.)

While I feel for people in this thread who have talked about the roadblocks they've butted heads with (Salt Merchant and Fathi most recently; others previously in the thread) the roadblocks have become hurdles now, haven't they? Hurdles that can be overcome if you tweak your jumping strategy a bit. Perhaps with a longer running start (more preparation for the plot) and better running shoes (money, position and power).

[staggerlee]

Except nethack.^*

Noted. We need more plentiful, creative, and brutal ways for character to die.

Also start players with kittens.

Code Select Expand

The @ stands here, dying of sickness.
A half-eaten kobold corpse lies here, its gnawed face in a taunting smirk.
An adorable kitten sits here, poking at the kobold corpse.

Please?
Everyone loves kittens.

[Olgaris]

eat kitten
You eat part of an adorable little fluffy kitten.

inventory
the head of shalooonsh
a partially eaten adorable little fluffy kitten.

think Damn it! I hate getting kitten fluff stuck on the back of my tongue!

[Shalooonsh]

Still sleeping with my head, huh?

Olgaris, everyone knows it's more efficient to just huff kittens than to actually devour them.

http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/Kitten_Huffing

[mansa]

Perhaps when we get to a year after the most recent staffing policy changes, we can discuss its effectiveness. It seems a lot of the examples of people trying to change things in this thread are old and thus, are of little relevance to the discussion since the policy was changed in an attempt to fix those bad situations. (Correct me if I'm wrong though.)

While I feel for people in this thread who have talked about the roadblocks they've butted heads with (Salt Merchant and Fathi most recently; others previously in the thread) the roadblocks have become hurdles now, haven't they? Hurdles that can be overcome if you tweak your jumping strategy a bit. Perhaps with a longer running start (more preparation for the plot) and better running shoes (money, position and power).

I'd like to hear a commentary on how well the change has affected the game, after 1 year, as well.

[Olgaris]

Still sleeping with my head, huh?

Olgaris, everyone knows it's more efficient to just huff kittens than to actually devour them.

http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/Kitten_Huffing

What... You've never swallowed a roach?

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20090328230446AAkTfKL

[Ourla]

Still sleeping with my head, huh?

Olgaris, everyone knows it's more efficient to just huff kittens than to actually devour them.

http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/Kitten_Huffing

LMAO

[musashi]

Holy shit! 

[Kol]

BWAHAHAHAHAHA!

I FUCKING LOVE IT!

[Delstro]

I don't think I have ever been this burned out. I think my last character's death killed my soul. I can't even come up with a character concept when I look at a character generator. 

[Jia]

I don't think I have ever been this burned out. I think my last character's death killed my soul. I can't even come up with a character concept when I look at a character generator. 

Play a character who has no soul.

[Delstro]

I think you win. Touche`

[DustMight]

Hey don't derail my "I might be leaving, maybe, I'm not sure." thread!

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

How about you just take a break, come back refreshed, and forget about your "I might be leaving soon" thread?

Hogwash. Nobody leaves.

[musashi]

I was about to say ... I think it's really cool how we all took a "I'm leaving because the game sucks" thread and made it into a happy thread about snorting kittens.

[jcljules]

In my experience intense, flaming, red-hot threads either get locked or derailed into harmlessness and kittens.

[Comrade Canadia]

How about you just take a break, come back refreshed, and forget about your "I might be leaving soon" thread?

Hogwash. Nobody leaves.

Says YOU. I'm great at leaving. I've done it at least six times now.