Complete Control: The Scaling Method

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

This is Riev's brainchild with my sensibilities.

The idea concerns being able to use fractions of your skills and stats for whatever reason you need to do such a thing for. For example, when sparring a rookie, you might scale back your strength and slashing weapons so that you don't kill them. You might scale back your climbing skill to try to prove to a templar that you didn't steal from that second floor room. You might scale back your skill with sirihish to appropriately play a dwarf who'll never ever speak it.

The thing is, if you use a skill at less than 100%, you can not gain in it. You can gain in other skills that might be affected by your reduced stat or skill, however. For instance, if you scale down your  agility and strength, which effect how easy it is to hit you, you can still gain in shields. If you scale down shields, though, you can't gain in that skill, but you can still gain in defense.

You might call the process challenging yourself.

The process would work in percents. If you have 60 in your run skill, and you want to run at 30 percent, you would end up scaling back your run skill to 42. Your numbers would never be visible to you, obviously, and the mud code would simply do some mathematical stuff and add a flag to your character with a penalty equivalent to whatever you desired, based on numbers from 0-100 percent.

For an example of possible messages:

Code Select Expand


>scaledown strength 20
You scale down your strength to 20 percent.

>scaleup slashing weapons 70
You scale up your slashing weapons to 70 percent.

>scaledown strength 30
Your strength is scaled down to 20 percent. You should scale up.

>scaleup all 100
You scale up all of your abilities and stats to 100 percent.

>scaledown all 0
You scale down all of your abilities and stats to 0 percent.

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

Also:

Code Select Expand


>scalecheck basketweaving
You are using basketweaving at 80 percent.

>skills
crafts
-----------------------------------------
Basketweaving*            tanning
fletchery                 armor repair

>scalelock sirihish 99
You lock your sirihish at 99 percent.
(scaleup/scaledown all will not effect this skill's scale)

>scaleunlock sirihish 80
You unlock your sirihish, and will use it at 80 percent.

[Northlander]

This would be cool.

[Riev]

Thanks for taking my idea and making it -workable-!

I am for the idea. Use whatever syntax necessary, but maybe not even make it on -any- skill, but certain ones? I am not a fan of purposefully reducing your strength, so much as just the skills you have (Because stats don't matter, guys! ..... )

Personally, I would rather -any- skill reduced by -any- percentage, means that skill can no longer attain skillfails. If you aren't trying your hardest to get better, you shouldn't get better. In a lot of ways, its more of an RP tool than it is a Coded ability anyway.

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

Sorry for not crediting you in the initial post. I didn't think about that. I remedied it.

I think all skills and stats should be able to be managed. I don't have to use all my strength IRL if I don't want to. I can move slow if I chose to by not using all of my agility. I can choose to not learn anything at all. I can choose not to do my best, at all.

This is why I think that you should be able to do this to any skill or stat. I can do it IRL. IG, it won't change anything other than a few minor things that were unrealistic anyway, such as sparring with a ton of weight because you can't spar with the rookie in any other way and still give him a chance AND what for. Or never being able to get the burnt meat you want because you never fail at cooking. Or never dropping a slice of fruit in the dirt because you are just too good with the knife.

Nah. We should be able to not give 100% at everything and anything we chose.

[Fathi]

I would add to this idea that I would love the option to turn off the auto-reversal attempts of things like disarms and kicks.

[Riev]

Nah, I didn't need the credit, I'm just glad someone enjoyed the idea.

I see where you're coming from with the stats, it just seems like a LOT of customization that could be quite daunting to take care of, though "scaleup all 100" could remedy that.

I LIKE failing to craft sometimes, and I LIKE Fathi's "No auto reversal" idea. Perhaps tweaking with numbers could help you find the happy medium of good disarm, but no reversal... I don't know.


Edit: To reiterate - This is REALLY more of an RP tool than anything else, but I'm sure people could twink it out or something. It is just much easier than wishing up to ask for a fail and lagging a scene.

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

I would add to this idea that I would love the option to turn off the auto-reversal attempts of things like disarms and kicks.

Code Select Expand


>kick gith
You kick a gith in the nutsack, like a killer.

>scaledown kick 40
You scale down your kick to 40 percent.

A gith misses their kick at your titties.

>scaleup kick 100
You scale up your kick to 100 percent.

kick gith
You kick a gith in the same nutsack. Damn, you're cold.


[brytta.leofa]

You could combine "scaledown" and "scaleup"; just call it "scale" or somethin'.

[Cutthroat]

Yeah, great idea and concept.

My only suggestion is to make one command for ease of use, and only so you can avoid situations where, for example, you type 'scaleup' and put a number lower than what it currently is, which would result in an error.

Code Select Expand

>use kick 60
You will use 'kick' at 60% of your ability.

So it takes adjusting a command that already exists. Just a little nitpicking I guess, but the rest of the idea's already awesome.

[Nyr]

This is a good idea for Armageddon Reborn, and I believe it even fits in with adverbial commands.

[Qzzrbl]

Damn it all, I accidentally voted "No, with caveat" when I meant to vote "yes".

[brytta.leofa]

> ineptly kill man (charging in with a bloodcurdling shriek)
Charging in with a bloodcurdling shriek, you tickle the tall, muscular man with your hit.
You tickle the tall, muscular man with your hit.
You tickle the tall, muscular man with your hit.
> kill man
You try harder!
You hit the tall, muscular man very hard on the neck.
The tall, muscular man reels from the blow!
You hit the tall, muscular man very hard on the head.
The tall, muscular man crumples to the ground.

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

I wanna know why anybody voted no. I'm not going to be argumentative. I just want to know why.

[RogueGunslinger]

Maybe give the option at scaling a scale up to 110% or 120% but sacrifice something for it?

[Riev]

After sleeping on it, I kind of agree with Nyr. Its definitely a project more for Reborn, though I think the test-code could be written for the current incarnation of Arm as well.

I still think its more of an RP tool that would make it a lot easier for things to be done convincingly. If I want to act inept, I should be able to. If someone things I'm the Dread Pirate Woberts, I should be able to fight at like 40% and then just hemote that maybe I'm holding my weapons a bit too well for the skill I'm exhibiting.

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

I think it would be as simple to put into the current code as a lot of things that have been recently added.

Basically, all it is is a command for the PC to apply penalties to themselves. That's it, really. The code already checks for penalties/bonuses now. All that will really be happening is that a command previously available to staff only would now be available to PCs to use at a personal level. You could almost literally copy/paste the staff function that handles this and change permissions to allow PCs to use it. With a few options removed from the function and a few new messages and checks added, the staff command would completely handle this.

That's not to say that I expect to see it. I'm just saying.

[Nyr]

What command would this be?

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

Well, I'm assuming builders/staff have a command or function whereby they can apply penalties/bonuses to items, like climbing ropes, or the like, since we have items IG that give pluses/minuses to stats and skills. That same command could be used to reference PCs.

[Nyr]

There is not a direct parallel on this--there is no way to temporarily add effects to mobiles, objects, or rooms via command.  Any changes made are relatively permanent until a future change.

Hypothetically, to do this right in arm 1:

Ginka would have to store your character's actual skill as well as your ratcheting effect on that skill.  It would have to be limited (unless you want to "sort of" cast a spell?) to mundane combat abilities, which means limiting skill by skill or guild by guild (likely skill by skill, since magickers do have some mundane abilityat combat).  A new command would need to be created (or a script) that allowed players to alter this. New code would need to go in to allow for the possibility of ratcheting, which doesn't exist at this time in any fashion.  (I'm not entirely positive that the code for combat can be altered or modified by scripts, but let's assume it can be done.)  After doing this in Arm 1, we would be facing some other leftovers introduced by modifying the system in such a manner. Rez requests for people who set their skills low and didn't really want to, bugs (can't rule them out on new code) with values being fed in the wrong way, etc.

Right now, this exists in concept for Armageddon Reborn. It has staff support, and the game has been structured with this in mind almost from the start.

I'm not saying that this won't get implemented in Armageddon 1.
I am saying that there is not a "basically," "that's it, really," "copy/paste" answer to this.  I wish there were, but there is a lot more to this proposal than meets the eye.

[Halcyon]

I'd suggest coding it as an instant, no emit, no desc change spell effect, although you might have to add a syntax for such things.

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

Alright. I dig that, Nyr. Sorry for assuming. It made an ass of of me and ... uh.

[Nyr]

Alright. I dig that, Nyr. Sorry for assuming. It made an ass of of me and ... uh.

Olgaris.  You can always blame Olgaris for anything.

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

I'd suggest coding it as an instant, no emit, no desc change spell effect, although you might have to add a syntax for such things.

This is actually probably the best idea. I had thought there was a staff command to do this sort of thing. Without that, the spell idea might be the best idea. It's also the most work, but then, I guess both are. It would at least work on an existing code system.

Nyr, why only combat skills?

[Nyr]

Nyr, why only combat skills?

You can remove the word "combat" from that sentence.  Sorry, I meant that, but just threw it in there because I always follow the word mundane with combat.

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

Hah.

[Salt Merchant]

What I don't like about this is the emphasis on numbers.

I'd rather see "combat postures". Full fight, which is as it is now. Defensive fight, where one attacks only half as often or half as "hard" and concentrates on defense. And full defense, which is as it is now.

[Riev]

Numbers I'm cool with, but I was wondering if maybe Ginka doesn't have to store the temp-stats, but merely apply a modifier to skills when check is performed against skills? Unless that would mean adding some sort of variable check on -every- skill function, which would be tedious and ridiculous.

But thats all I was thinking, was a percentage modifier. Could likely store the percentages as an array in a single database column (though this would be a ridiculous amount of back-end work to be sure each position in the array corresponds to the correct skill).

I am glad this is in mind for 2.Arm, but I wouldn't MIND seeing it in Current.

[Synthesis]

I definitely like it.

Sometimes you don't want the guy you're following around to figure out that your stealth abilities are ninja-like simply because you're following him and he starts sneaking.

However, I definitely see the potential for severe mishaps.  How many times do you forget you have 'mercy on' after sparring, then have to wait that annoying fucking 10 seconds to finish off your next kill?  Now imagine if that wasn't 'mercy on,' but was 'set defense nil,' and a tregil reels you with brutal bite to the nutsack.

I guess you could chalk it up to the player being aware...but goddamn, there are already a hundred and one things you have to keep track of as it is.  Maybe it wouldn't be too bad if all your modified skills were listed in 'stat,' and you could reset them all back to 100% of your ability with a single command (reset all, or whatever).

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

I guess you could have an addition to prompt to remind you. Just something to list which skills you had scaled currently.

[MarshallDFX]

However, I definitely see the potential for severe mishaps.  How many times do you forget you have 'mercy on' after sparring, then have to wait that annoying fucking 10 seconds to finish off your next kill?  Now imagine if that wasn't 'mercy on,' but was 'set defense nil,' and a tregil reels you with brutal bite to the nutsack.

Perhaps this is a place for the suggested "spar" command..  Your skills are maxed by default with kill, but have the modifiers with "spar".. Of course, we're instantly limiting the scope of controllable skills down to combat skills only.

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

You know, the easiest way to deal with this issue of forgetting would be to give scaling back a time limit of, say, 5 minutes, unless you locked it. If you locked it, that would be your own fault.

[Riev]

Marshall, I disagree only in that my original intent for Complete Control wasn't meant as much as a diversion from the sparring thread. Compete Control would be more of an RP tool for people, than it would a straight sparring tool. There are multiple occasions where CC would be great (Templar inquisitions, convincing people you really suck) and sparring is just ONE of those instances.