Ancient Seeeekrit Docummenntt

[jcljules]

http://www.armageddon.org/intro/tuluk.html

Among the many (the exact number is not known) Orders are the Jihaens, the Lirathans, the Equivocals, and the Royal Guard.

Ooohhh...

There are various types of nobles and Templars. Of those that possess titles of nobility, approximately half are Hlum and half are Surif. The Surif gain their titles by heredity, so that the title (and estate, usually) are passed from generation to generation within a certain family, or dynasty.

Ahhhhh...

[jstorrie]

Yup, that's pre-rebellion Tuluk, though I don't believe the minor orders were ever playable.

There are Hlum again, but their numbers are much smaller.

[jcljules]

I just find it interesting that half of the nobles were hlum and that more than one person could win the title at a hunt.

[Potaje]

Hlums still do not have a voice in the triumverate correct only surifs?

[musashi]

Hlums have a voice, but they are such a small section that they don't really have enough clout to do much I believe.

[Gimfalisette]

Hlums still do not have a voice in the triumverate correct only surifs?

Hlum are individual nobles and do not found Chosen houses, so they do not have representation in the Triumvirate like the Surif houses do.

[musashi]

Really Gimf?

Hlum nobles form a small bloc in the noble third of the Triumverate, exerting less influence than the Surif Houses. However, they often have considerable sway with the common populace due to their background and contacts. Hlum nobles may further strengthen their influence by winning the Grey Hunt more than once.

Come on now ... that's in the website's General Information section under Tuluki Nobility - Hlum Nobles.

[Gimfalisette]

Yes, really. When they call for votes in the Triumvirate, they count the votes of the Surif houses. (And the majority vote of the Surif houses becomes the vote of the Chosen faction.) I don't know whether Hlum nobles would be allowed to observe a meeting of the Triumvirate or not--junior Surif nobles usually are not--but even if they are able to observe, that is not the same thing as having a vote.

[musashi]

The docs say they form a small block in the noble third of the Triumverate ... excerting less influence than the Surif Houses.

Doesn't that mean: They get a vote, but since they're just a tiny part of the nobility in comparson with the Surif Houses, their vote is not as weighty (unless they've been playing the good politician and have made sure everyone else votes with them beforehand)?

EDIT: Since this raises a pretty decent question, I asked the staff in the other board. Lets see what they say!

[Gimfalisette]

That just means they have partisans and interact with the public and other nobles. That is how they may influence politics. But, most of Tuluki politics happens outside the actual Triumvirate meetings, anyways.

[musashi]

Is that written somewhere or are you speaking from experience?

EDIT:

Nope.

Right then. My mistake! I must have been reading the doc wrong. I didn't realize Triumverate meant anything other than the actual governing body of Tuluk.

[Nyr]

There are only two orders in the templarate now. Within player memory, the Jihaen Order was superseded by the Lirathan Order. (I remember seeing this as a player.)

As for the Hlum nobility:

They have influence and power of a different sort. Hlum nobility form a small bloc in the nobles portion of the Triumvirate, yes, but they have no vote. After all, they are not Surif nobility. Hlum nobility were present at the last Triumvirate meeting and I would assume any guests could be present if invited. Most GMHs would probably also have a representative present, especially if any of their interests are involved. However, again--this does not translate into a direct vote or direct influence of the Triumvirate.

[musashi]

I understand now. I had just thought that by "form a small bloc" and "excert influence" that meant "had a vote". My bad.

[lingering]

musashi, I understand the confusion.  I read the little blurb in the hlum section of the document and can see why you thought that. 

[musashi]

I saw that. It just didn't mention Hlum one way or another, and then as I said above, the Hlum section seemed to imply to me that they did have influence in the meetings, however small, so I took that to mean they had a small say.

[Gimfalisette]

Is that written somewhere or are you speaking from experience?

There's much more to politics in either city-state than is written in the docs. At best, the docs are a simple outline of the mechanics--and sometimes they aren't even that clear about mechanics, as in this case. So yes, I was speaking from experience.

[Ender]

There's a big difference in Tuluk between the ability to vote and the ability to have influence.  In Tuluki politics there are only a handful of people who can actually vote.  They are the High Precentor, the King, and the heads of Surif Houses, and even then the noble vote only adds up to one vote.

The real Tuluki politics is what happens before those votes are cast with back room deals and the like, which is where the hlum can actually make their influence known.  Basically the rule to Tuluki politics is if you save your arguments for the Triumverant meeting you've already lost.  Doing politics out in the open is so... soo.. Allanak.  We perfer our shady spice filled backrooms thank you very much.

[Dar]

Everything influences politics. The Guild influences politics, the Kurac, all GMH really. None of them have a vote, but they all influence.

[Xagon]

> Skills
Your Strength is Absolutely Incredible, Your Wisdom is Poor

...

>Break Door
You break through the door....

The Politics Deciding building [NSEW]
It's a building where important people do political stuffs.
The hard-nosed templar is standing here.
The brown-nosed templar is standing here, reading.
The influential Guild member is hiding in the corner.
The bastard noble is here, minding his own business.

>say (Bursting through the door in a loud, obnoxious voice) I BE INFLUENCIN' UR POLITIK!

[LoD]

>Break Door
You break through the door....

The Politics Deciding building [NSEW]
It's a building where important people do political stuffs.
The hard-nosed templar is standing here.
The brown-nosed templar is standing here, reading.
The influential Guild member is hiding in the corner.
The bastard noble is here, minding his own business.
The tall, muscular man is in your building, influencin' ur politik!

That would be completely inappropriate, but crack me up for the 5 seconds it would last.

-LoD

[Reiloth]

Yeah. Hlum's power is with the people, yada yada. They don't get to vote, they get to listen to all the boring goings ons and not say a peep. In fact, for every peep a Hlum makes at a Triumvirate meeting, s/he gets one spanking by Muk-Utep's maid, arranged for in part by the Moon Patrol(c)(<---jstorrie).

[Spice Spice Baby]

Yeah. Hlum's power is with the people, yada yada. They don't get to vote, they get to listen to all the boring goings ons and not say a peep. In fact, for every peep a Hlum makes at a Triumvirate meeting, s/he gets one spanking by Muk-Utep's maid, arranged for in part by the Moon Patrol(c)(<---jstorrie).

Is she cute?

'Cause I've got this northern human PC I'm not doing anything with, if so...

[jstorrie]

The Moon Patrol! My eternal nemesis!

[Reiloth]

Yeah. Hlum's power is with the people, yada yada. They don't get to vote, they get to listen to all the boring goings ons and not say a peep. In fact, for every peep a Hlum makes at a Triumvirate meeting, s/he gets one spanking by Muk-Utep's maid, arranged for in part by the Moon Patrol(c)(<---jstorrie).

Is she cute?

'Cause I've got this northern human PC I'm not doing anything with, if so...

The Moon Patrol consists of both sexes, and they don't have sex. They just watch you while you -do- have sex, and then bust the door down with a kung-fu kick and melt you with laser-beam eyes. Scary shit man.

[Kol]

Yeah. Hlum's power is with the people, yada yada. They don't get to vote, they get to listen to all the boring goings ons and not say a peep. In fact, for every peep a Hlum makes at a Triumvirate meeting, s/he gets one spanking by Muk-Utep's maid, arranged for in part by the Moon Patrol(c)(<---jstorrie).

Is she cute?

'Cause I've got this northern human PC I'm not doing anything with, if so...

The Moon Patrol consists of both sexes, and they don't have sex. They just watch you while you -do- have sex, and then bust the door down with a kung-fu kick and melt you with laser-beam eyes. Scary shit man.

Sounds like 'Gickedr shit to me.

Although it gives me an idea for a cocept The bionic man, alanthian style.