zalanthian justice

[darkone]

i know i'm not the first person to say this, and probably not going to be the last..but i think the way the criminal system at Armageddon works sucks. even if you walk around with a hooded cloak in the middle of a crowded street or bazaar, the city guards know you are a branded criminal and hunt you down. nevermind the fact that there are thousands upon thousands of people in the city, and that many of them probably have similar features to you..and would every single guard in the entire city know you broke some law the minute you did it?? i know armageddon is supposed to be harsh and all, but the justice system here defenitely overdoes it.

The Zalanthan justice system is tough... but that's also to help prevent abuse by say... a criminal commiting a crime, then raising his hood, and sticking around the scene of the crime. To incorporate better reactions to the crim-code, it would need a complete overhaul. It's not that we don't need it, it's just that... there are more things to worry about, since there hasn't been gigantic uproar against the crim-code just yet. I don't think any crim-code threads even matched the Banzai!!! thread ;->

[Pungee]

You know... I don't think I really mind it. The criminal code I mean. If you want to pull out the 'law of averages' so to speak and you assume that for every PC and NPC there are thousands and thousands of VNPCS, this means there are also hundreds of guards in certain rooms. If two of them happen to notice you, I'd say thats pretty damned lucky that you don't have a platoon of half-giants.

I also have to say I get a morbid kind of satisfaction in lowering my head when I'm a criminal and trying to charge through a half-giant or two and make my way to the gates. It's fantastically fun.  :twisted:

My two 'sid. No wait, Purple Penguin on the Templar's shoulder tells me to say something else...

That's just my two elf ears.  

[SailorMars]

i know armageddon is supposed to be harsh and all, but the justice system here defenitely overdoes it.

Overdoes it?! What are you talking about?! I happen to love the arresting guard getting six hits plus a kick, bash, or disarm in a single round if you don't have nosave on.  :lol:

You are wanted.
Oh shit, 'nosa...'
Welcome to Armageddon

[Fedaykin]

Personally, I'd love to see the crim code toned down a bit if there are active soldier and templar PC's in the particular area.  Maybe a crime report of sorts could be recorded and then filtered around, giving criminals a little more incintive to act criminally when they know justice won't be swift and instant, while at the same time giving more to do for militia PCs by way of hunting down criminals themselves.

Perhaps if any abuse were to happen, such as a person spam stealing or stealing multiple times in a short period of time or within close proximity to thier other acts, then the soldier NPC's can catch on, sort of like being hot on their trail, and then the instant justice system can kick in.

Just my own opinion and suggestion though.

[Angela Christine]

Are you crazed?  Yes, the chance of getting caught is pretty good, but so what?  In the two main cities the punishments are laughably un-harsh from an IC perspective.  I've had characters arrested for most crimes your character will spend a couple IC hours in jail.  You'd get worse than that in a modern democracy, hell, just the being arrested and processed into jail could take longer than that in real life. They also seize your weapons, so if you plan to be commiting crimes buy cheap weapons.  Getting arressted with a quiver full of arrow really sucks.  If the guards were toned down the punishments should be harshenated.  First-time theft could result in losing a hand, a good whipping or being sentenced to hard labour in Australia . . . er, in the obsidian mines.  There are elven NPCs with ears, eyes and hands cut off, I assume most of these disfigurements are the result of physical punishmentss.

The automated crim code is fast-but-wimpy.  Sometimes I don't even have time to Contact my friends and tell them about my plight before my ass is back out on the street.

Now there is always the chance a law enforcement PC will get involved, which can make things much more interesting and potentially deadly.  But that doesn't have much to do with the crim code.

Tip #1  Put nosave on BEFORE you commit a crime.  This greatly reduces the chances that the super speedy soldiers of doom will kill you.

Tip #2  If you plan to be a career criminal buy cheap weapons, because you will likely have to replace them a few times.

Tip #3  Be glad that Tektolnes doesn't just send a bolt of lightening out of his tower and zap you on the spot.  There are worse things than fast soldiers.

AC

[Fedaykin]

Now there is always the chance a law enforcement PC will get involved, which can make things much more interesting and potentially deadly.  But that doesn't have much to do with the crim code.

For a soldier PC, I think it would make a difference if the criminal has already been caught and is in a cell.

If the guards were toned down the punishments should be harshenated.

I agree completely.  If both sides of the equation are broke, both should be fixed.  However, I don't think two wrongs (the instant NPC justice and the 'laughably unharsh' punishments) balance eachother out to make a right.

[creeper386]

I don't know about you... But with a thief I've gone about... And even have an NPC shout about a thief after I failed stealing and never was crim-flagged... Wasn't sneaking or hiding or anything. I've also been in all sorts of brawls and most the time I have plenty of time to wait before soldiers arrive... Even better chance if I move around carefully. If you got a character that was good at avoiding soldiers and stuff... I think even getting crim-flagged wouldn't be too terrible... It's just when first starting out, you don't want to go out and try mass murder or anything.

Look at real life criminals...The good ones that really make the history books. They tend to start small, and locally and then move out to larger things, unless they just go incredibly big and get lucky.

As for the soldiers attacking and getting in a skill or two quite quickly... I haven't seen a problem with that... Although the only characters I've had be attacked by guards were warriors, they were completely newbie and didn't get SERIOUSLY injured... SHRUG. I haven't seen anything MAJORLY wrong over all. Still seems fairly easy to avoid people.

And just so you know wearing hoods, or fake wigs might make you stand out abit more from the crowd. If I'm a cop, I get a report of a crime, I see a bunch of normal looking people and someone wondering about with a hood on, the hooded person is going to be more suspicious... Just as if you were in a really rich area and someone speeding off from the area of the crime in a beat up little Chevy or something... He's probably going to stick out abit.

Hmm... Yes... And the thing is, when you try to say oh, well there is virtually thousands upon thousands of people about... When there is you and a few NPCs maybe one guard to two... Lets see... A few thousand divided by five... Lets just say one thousand... Then take two hundred times two for those two NPC militia men... Thats four hundred out of that that thousand wondering about... Maybe alittle extreme... But if you want to go that route exactly...

Creeper

[Angela Christine]

I don't know about you... But with a thief I've gone about... And even have an NPC shout about a thief after I failed stealing and never was crim-flagged... Wasn't sneaking or hiding or anything. I've also been in all sorts of brawls and most the time I have plenty of time to wait before soldiers arrive... Even better chance if I move around carefully. If you got a character that was good at avoiding soldiers and stuff... I think even getting crim-flagged wouldn't be too terrible...

Yeah, I had a character find an arrow in the desert, then try to sell it in town, only to discover it's a militia arrow.  I didn't even know the militia had arrows. :roll:  There weren't any soldiers in my line of sight, so I sold all my weapons assuming I would soon be arrested.  However, since I was not a regular criminal I forgot to Nosave On.  So when the militia finally found and failed to subdue me, the pulled out the weapons and started whacking on me.  I got away, and made my way to the 'rinth with no trouble at all.  If the militia are trying to kill you then even the 'rinth looks like a good option.  Got to a sleezy 'rinth tavern, which seemed like a good place to hang out and wait for my crim flag to expire.  Then some jackass backstabed me, presumably for the armor that had saved me from the militia earlier, and despite the fact that I was a paying customer the entire NPC staff of the tavern decided to join in on the side of the random backstabber.  Stupid fucks.

My point, and I do have one, is that it is possible to avoid the fast arm of the law even if you didn't plan ahead and weren't expecting trouble.  If you are deliberately committing crimes (rather than accidentally selling a marked item or forgetting you have a grain of spice in your pack) then you would have a plan B for when the job goes bad.  That's just common sense.

AC

[spawnloser]

Actually, AC, they seize the weapon but not the ammo, from what I've been witness to.

[Angela Christine]

Actually, AC, they seize the weapon but not the ammo, from what I've been witness to.

Maybe things changed, but last time it happened to me, more than a year ago, they took all my arrows but not my bow.  Arrows are weapons, you can fight with arrows, I think they are classed as piercing weapons if you use them in melee combat.  From what I've seen, most bows are not weapons and you don't want to get into combat holding nothing but a bow.  It could be that some bows and some arrows are classed as weapons by the crim code, and others are not.  There are some strange things the soldiers will sieze, sometimes I didn't even know something could be used as a weapon until the soldiers took it away.  

AC

[Dracul]

like toe nail clippers....

[spawnloser]

You know what, AC?  What you said, makes sense...and now that I think about it, the friend of mine that was jailed, that I was using as my frame of reference, didn't have to go buy himself a new crossbow if I remember correctly now, so I think you're right.

[jhunter]

I think that it would be nice if whether or not your weapons are returned to you depended on the crime.
Like if you were trying to steal something and got caught your weapons would be returned upon release, but if you were wanted for something combat-related then you would not get your weapons returned to you.
Just an idea that occured to me.

[Dracul]

crimes really have ooc punishments moreso, being that you have to sit idle in a cell. eh....