'Look' and much gnashing of teeth

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

I'm in favor of the look echo being changed to a "subtle" action.  One that requires a keen sense of observation to pick up, unless it's got an emote attached.

Code Select Expand

Look tressy-tressed woman

Said woman now has a chance of getting the echo:

Code Select Expand

You notice: the tall, muscular man looks at you

if she's particularly observant or watching the one who happens to look at her.

If it's:

Code Select Expand

look tressy-tressed (blatantly leering)

then I think the echo should pop up.

Second'd

Third'd

Maybe it would eliminate these discussions.

[Agent_137]

Oh jesus christ.

[Bogre]

I look at everyone.

But don't feel special, I tend to look at every thing as well.

Anyways, I wouldn't like the look echo taken off. Half the time you know someone is paying attention or have noticed you if you get a look. It would be weird if it didn't echo and all of a sudden people went, out of the blue, "Dude you look rough." "wtf how did you know that."

[Bogre]

Plus I think it would lessen the amount of look emotes people do if the look echo is taken.

[Salt Merchant]

I think we can do better than to "get over it".

For one thing, a list of conditions could be made so that, when a character arrives, it becomes apparent to everyone that there is something unusual about his or her appearance.

Conditions could include such states as:
- being naked or partially naked
- being near death or badly wounded
- looking particularly ill
- wielding a weapon in-city without being a militia member or a templar
- carrying something exceptionally bulky
- whatever else seems reasonable

An example:
>
The tressy-tressed young lass arrives from the north.
The tressy-tressed young lass looks nearly dead!
>

And there could be a survey command that lists people in unusual states within the room.

> survey
The lanky, scarred half-elf looks nearly dead!
The short, burly dwarf is bleeding profusely!
>

Which might be useful after a big fight.

This, combined with removing the somewhat aggressive "looks at you" message (which really, since it provides every detail, indicates more than a simple glance; it should echo more like "looks at you from head to toe and maneuvers to get a good view under your hood no matter which way you're facing") could allow both the hypervigilant and the new boy/girl in town to relax somewhat.

Also, I suggest that NPCs raise their hoods, especially in sandstorms.

[AmandaGreathouse]

Some of you sound so bitter. First and foremost, it's a game. And, at that, a text-based one.

Whatever happened to giving people the benefit of the doubt? I mean, shit, just because someone looks at your l33t raid3r of d00m doesn't mean they're going to remember all the details automagickally.

Second, in a world as poor as Zalanthas, if you're wearing jewelry, nice clothes, relatively decent armor, you're going to garner a few looks. Likely from VNPC's as well.

Third, this is an RPI, it is a mixture of code -and- roleplay. I don't think you need to code every single thing to make it playable. Christ, are we going to take -all- the decisions from players and have them coded? Yeah, I'm sure.

Seriously, it's just a look.

[HTX]

I think we can do better than to "get over it".

For one thing, a list of conditions could be made so that, when a character arrives, it becomes apparent to everyone that there is something unusual about his or her appearance.

Conditions could include such states as:
- being naked or partially naked
- being near death or badly wounded
- looking particularly ill
- wielding a weapon in-city without being a militia member or a templar
- carrying something exceptionally bulky
- whatever else seems reasonable

Yes.

Also - perhaps a command allowing people to view other people's equipment list without showing a look echo, something I recall been suggested ages ago and something I'm still in support of.

[Lizzie]

I think we can do better than to "get over it".

For one thing, a list of conditions could be made so that, when a character arrives, it becomes apparent to everyone that there is something unusual about his or her appearance.

Conditions could include such states as:
- being naked or partially naked
- being near death or badly wounded
- looking particularly ill
- wielding a weapon in-city without being a militia member or a templar
- carrying something exceptionally bulky
- whatever else seems reasonable

An example:
>
The tressy-tressed young lass arrives from the north.
The tressy-tressed young lass looks nearly dead!
>

Let's expand that example to reflect a more common scene:
A Byn unit has just arrived in the Gaj for their day off.
A green-eyed man arrives from the north.
A green-eyed man is missing his pants!
A green-eyed man is badly wounded!
A green-eyed man looks thirsty!
A green-eyed man is wielding a weapon!
A green-eyed man is carrying a backpack!

A blue-eyed man arrives from the north.
A blue-eyed man is badly wounded!
A blue-eyed man looks hungry!
A blue-eyed man is wielding a weapon!

A red-haired man arrives from the north.
A red-haired man is wounded!
A red-haired man is carrying a chest!

A big half-giant arrives from the north.
A big half-giant is carrying an enormous crate!
A big half-giant looks hungry!
A big half-giant looks sick!

And so on and so forth..and everyone who is sitting in the bar is subjected to 20 pages of screen scroll just because 5 noobs and one Byn Sergeant walked into the room, just returned from a day of sparring.

No. Thank you, but no.

[Cutthroat]

I'm in favor of the look echo being changed to a "subtle" action.  One that requires a keen sense of observation to pick up, unless it's got an emote attached.

Code Select Expand

Look tressy-tressed woman

Said woman now has a chance of getting the echo:

Code Select Expand

You notice: the tall, muscular man looks at you

if she's particularly observant or watching the one who happens to look at her.

If it's:

Code Select Expand

look tressy-tressed (blatantly leering)

then I think the echo should pop up.

Second'd

Third'd

Maybe it would eliminate these discussions.

Fourth'd

If there must be -any- change, this is the one I'd like to see. I know I've suggested it somewhere before.

[NoteworthyFellow]

I'm in favor of the look echo being changed to a "subtle" action.  One that requires a keen sense of observation to pick up, unless it's got an emote attached.

Code Select Expand

Look tressy-tressed woman

Said woman now has a chance of getting the echo:

Code Select Expand

You notice: the tall, muscular man looks at you

if she's particularly observant or watching the one who happens to look at her.

If it's:

Code Select Expand

look tressy-tressed (blatantly leering)

then I think the echo should pop up.

Second'd

Third'd

Maybe it would eliminate these discussions.

Fourth'd

If there must be -any- change, this is the one I'd like to see. I know I've suggested it somewhere before.

Fifth'd.

Sorry. Just felt like this should reach the heights of absurdity that it deserves. Also, I do honestly agree.

[Jorlain]

New command: Glance

glance woman

You glance at the so-and-so woman.
  Insert fancy mdesc here.

No echos on glance. All it gives you is their mdesc. That way, for those of us that just need to re-read your mdesc, we can do so without an annoying "so-and-so looks at you".

Look is still present, shows you their mdesc, and visible equipment, and has the standard echo attached.

Problem resolved.

[NoteworthyFellow]

New command: Glance

glance woman

You glance at the so-and-so woman.
  Insert fancy mdesc here.

No echos on glance. All it gives you is their mdesc. That way, for those of us that just need to re-read your mdesc, we can do so without an annoying "so-and-so looks at you".

Look is still present, shows you their mdesc, and visible equipment, and has the standard echo attached.

Problem resolved.

It isn't the mdesc I'm worried about, it's the equipment list. If this newly proposed "glance" command showed equipment and magick effects, etc., that'd be totally cool.

[spicemustflow]

How about the simplest possible solution, that people stop regarding 'look' command like 'pin you down and strip search'? On my way to the store, I 'looked' at many people, including a cop who didn't draw his gun at me. He even looked back. He must be up to something.

[AmandaGreathouse]

I'm more apt to pay attention to a persons mdesc than their eqiupment list, personally. I'm in favor of the look proposal made b Pale Horse and fifth'd by most everybody.

That being said, I think the glance thing has some merit, but I'd prefer to see it broken down a bit.

glance <soandso>
You see their mdesc.

glance <soandso> assess
all the assess -v info, plus effects and equipment.

Also:

spicemustflow: You hit the nail right on the head.

[SMuz]

What.. the.. fuck? I can't even look at people now? I look at things all the time. I might look at your character twice, because I don't want to scroll up or copy your desc to notepad.

You're not special just because I look at you. I look at the NPCs too. I look at the rooms and the items, multiple times.

I don't think this needs a change in code. Looking at people is by far the simplest option. And the echo is fine. I like that the echo is a way of indicating that the character is sentient.

[Salt Merchant]

What.. the.. fuck? I can't even look at people now? I look at things all the time. I might look at your character twice, because I don't want to scroll up or copy your desc to notepad.

You're not special just because I look at you. I look at the NPCs too. I look at the rooms and the items, multiple times.

I don't think this needs a change in code. Looking at people is by far the simplest option. And the echo is fine. I like that the echo is a way of indicating that the character is sentient.

You don't get it.

I'm not trying to keep my IC identity a secret.

I don't care if someone looks at me if I start talking to them, or if we're alone in a room together, or if my character is doing something to draw attention to himself, or if we ride past each other on the North Road. That's natural enough.

The bee under my bonnet is that even in crowded circumstances like the pub example or out on Caravan Road with huge crowds flowing in every direction, my character will get looked at directly just because he has that magick PC aura that means "you must look at -me- out of the hundreds of people around". Every single time. In fact, there have been times when people have chosen to chase my character down the road through enormous crowds just to get a look at him in particular.

It's that there's no reasonable IC explanation for it. People have tried to explain it as needing to see if there are circumstances they should be aware of but then they don't give unhooded PCs the same treatment. You may claim to be looking at NPCs (very rare that I see this happen) or vNPCs, but you can't reasonably survey a place with potentially hundreds of people present and know all of the details of their appearances and apparel.

[X-D]

Of course they do not.

And I think it is somewhat childish thinking to think they should. An unhooded PC is giving information...namely, what they look like. A hooded PC is not. It is that simple. You as the player of the hooded PC have decided to not give up some basic information and the player of the other PC must then use a command to gather more then basic information. 

[Marauder Moe]

Again, look doesn't echo when used on vNPCs.  While my PC is walking down the street, yes often he does look at most of the vNPCs there, hooded or otherwise.  Heck, he looks at the NPCs and un-hooded PCs too, but I, as a player, often eschew the coded look command because I've seen that N/PC before and I know what they look like.

Do I really have to emote about every single person, virtual or otherwise, who passes through my character's field of vision?


Just because you've got your hood up, it doesn't mean people aren't allowed to look at you.  (If you don't want people to look at you, hide.)

Just because you've got your hood up, it doesn't mean people can't recognize you.

Just because someone looks at you, it doesn't mean they're not looking at all the vNPCs standing next to you too.

Just because someone doesn't look at an unhooded person, it doesn't mean they don't see them.


Are you really sure we can do better than "get over it"?  Because apparently some people can't even do that...

[Salt Merchant]

Of course they do not.

And I think it is somewhat childish thinking to think they should. An unhooded PC is giving information...namely, what they look like. A hooded PC is not. It is that simple. You as the player of the hooded PC have decided to not give up some basic information and the player of the other PC must then use a command to gather more then basic information. 

The bottom line is that this looking occurs largely out of simple OOC curiousity. None of these attempted explanations hold water because of the contradictory behaviors characters show.

Do I have a good solution for it? I don't, and it's obvious that many people who are posting in this thread don't want to even bother to try. So I'll accept WarriorPoet's viewpoint, namely that it just comes with being a PC in a game.

Thanks to all who have posted.

[NoteworthyFellow]

I stand by the following: make "look" a subtle action like "assess," or just eliminate the echo altogether.

[Marauder Moe]

Sorry.  If this discussion is heated I think it's because probably just as often as you've had people chase your character through a crowd to look at them, I and others have had people try to kill our characters (it's happened to me more than once) seemingly just in response to a plain look echo.

The title and tone of your posts makes me wonder if you were one of them.

I'm also not particularly opposed to removing or otherwise subduing the look echo.  I'm simply opposed to your accusations that it's poor roleplay to look at people.

[Thunkkin]

I'm in favor of the look echo being changed to a "subtle" action.  One that requires a keen sense of observation to pick up, unless it's got an emote attached.

Code Select Expand

Look tressy-tressed woman

Said woman now has a chance of getting the echo:

Code Select Expand

You notice: the tall, muscular man looks at you

if she's particularly observant or watching the one who happens to look at her.

If it's:

Code Select Expand

look tressy-tressed (blatantly leering)

then I think the echo should pop up.

Second'd

Third'd

Maybe it would eliminate these discussions.

Fourth'd

If there must be -any- change, this is the one I'd like to see. I know I've suggested it somewhere before.

Fifth'd.

Sorry. Just felt like this should reach the heights of absurdity that it deserves. Also, I do honestly agree.

Sixth'd.

[LoD]

The look command is an exchange in information. 

You give me your main description and visible equipment so that I can make a determination for how my character might want to react to your physical appearance, possible mutations, visible tattoos or scars, choice of dress, obvious clan trappings, foreign or domestic items, and the state of your being.

I give you an indication that my character is being actively played, that I have a cursory interest in your character, and that I might be interested in some kind of interaction so that you can make a determination on whether you want to check me out in return, whether your character wants to make a response, pursue some interaction, or ignore me altogether.

What both sides choose to do with this information is entirely up to them, but I think it's important that the information continues to be passed -- whether it's handling messages that are IC, OOC, or both.

-LoD

[Ampere]

Didn't we just do this?

[RogueGunslinger]

Didn't we just do this?

'

Like, fuckin' two days ago.