Carru/Gizhat/Etc.

[Eloran]

It helps with the playability of being at the other end of the charge and the realism we see in the effects you get from the charge.

If we are to take into consideration playability in regards to being on the receiving end of nasty skills, I propose that carru and gizhat be reviewed/tweaked accordingly.

Currently a carru can bash you, then use its script to bash you into the next room while you are still reeling from the last strike.

Gizhat seem to work in much the same fashion, though more often than not they appear to bounce off of taller characters.

[Majikal]

A removal of their crazy bash skill and leaving them with that room to room headbutt of doom would do well in the way of balance. They definitely don't need both.

Though I will miss the Carru being crazy deadly  they've always held a little place in my heart for being a young rangers nightmare.

[Lizzie]

If carru weren't insane, then I'd have no reason to be afraid when I ride along that stretch of road. Coming up just -to- that section...every character I have, first thought in their mind...

"Carru area..careful."

Take that away and you might as well just put up billboards reading "Disneyland - ahead, 2 mi."

[Synthesis]

Yeah, comparing a skill used by sentient PCs to a skill used by some seriously dumb AI-driven NPCs doesn't really work.

If the carru abilities were nerfed, they wouldn't be nearly as intimidating.

[Eloran]

I don't follow. You're telling me that you don't have a problem with carru being able to bash you while you're already down from a previous bash?

Player-characters aren't allowed to do this.

Mounts aren't allowed to do this.

Player-characters must now flee, return, then initiate with charge to reuse the skill.

Carru can bash as many times as they like.

What's wrong with continuity?

[Synthesis]

What's wrong with keeping carru scary as fuck?

[brytta.leofa]

If the carru abilities were nerfed, they wouldn't be nearly as intimidating.

Slippery slope!

[Eloran]

If the carru abilities were nerfed, they wouldn't be nearly as intimidating.

I'm not asking carru be nerfed, I'm asking that they not be able to use their script of doom while you're already reeling on your laurels from the previous bash.

What's wrong with keeping carru scary as fuck?

There's a difference between something being scary as fuck and something being annoying as fuck.

Carru are annoying as fuck.

Mekillots are scary as fuck.

Kryl are annoying as fuck.

Wezer are scary as fuck.

Oh, I'm seeing a trend here.

[Synthesis]

That's not a slippery slope argument.  A slippery slope would be:  "if we nerf carru, then pretty soon we're going to nerf tembo, and if we keep going, nothing in the desert will be dangerous anymore!"  That isn't what I'm arguing.  I'm saying, "I like carru the way they are, so don't change them."

And yes, it would be a nerf.  Take this argument:  if warriors had the ability to repeatedly bash an opponent, even if on the ground, and this ability was taken away, would you not consider it a nerf to bash?

In computer gaming, a nerf is a change to a game that reduces the desirability or effectiveness of a particular game element.

I think your suggestion most definitely would reduce the effectiveness of carru, thus, it would be a nerf.

[Eloran]

It's not a nerf because in my opinion it's a bug that should be addressed.

I don't find it realistic in any sense that a carru can bash you while you're already on your butt from a previous bash.

Again, I'll reiterate:

Player-characters cannot do this.

Mounts cannot do this.

Why can carru?

[Synthesis]

Because carru aren't mounts or player-characters, and there's no reason to assume that the characteristics of those would necessarily be extensible to carru?

I can name you off a long list of things that NPCs can do that neither mounts nor PCs can do, if you want.

[Eloran]

Because carru aren't mounts or player-characters, and there's no reason to assume that the characteristics of those would necessarily be extensible to carru?

I can name you off a long list of things that NPCs can do that neither mounts nor PCs can do, if you want.

You're missing the point.

I'm not proposing that player-characters be granted the ability to spit acid or be given scripts to charge other characters. What I'm advocating is a bit of continuity.

1) Carru and player-characters share a skill.

2) That skill is 'bash'.

3) Carru can bash an opponent while they are down from a previous bash.

4) Player-characters cannot bash opponents while they are down from a previous bash.

What's the give?

[Majikal]

I can name you off a long list of things that NPCs can do that neither mounts nor PCs can do, if you want.

I want you to do it just for my curiousity. 

But don't.

[Synthesis]

Because carru aren't mounts or player-characters, and there's no reason to assume that the characteristics of those would necessarily be extensible to carru?

I can name you off a long list of things that NPCs can do that neither mounts nor PCs can do, if you want.

You're missing the point.

I'm not proposing that player-characters be granted the ability to spit acid or be given scripts to charge other characters. What I'm advocating is a bit of continuity.

1) Carru and player-characters share a skill.

2) That skill is 'bash'.

3) Carru can bash an opponent while they are down from a previous bash.

4) Player-characters cannot bash opponents while they are down from a previous bash.

What's the give?

The "give" is that the "trample into next room" ability is NOT the bash skill.  Therefore, carru have an EXTRA ability that PCs do not have, and this allows them to do things that PCs cannot do.

[Eloran]

Fine. Then take away the carru's ability to bash and let them keep the script. I'd be happy with that.

[Majikal]

I understand both sides of the argument and they each weigh out equally in my head. I've been nailed with an endless reel fuckerooskie from 120+ hp to death and found myself feeling the victim of just shit luck and crazy script timers, but then again, anything that takes away from the scariness of beasties I don't like seeing either. 

[Lizzie]

Carru are horned creatures that aren't being ridden by someone else who may or may not be skilled enough to charge it.

Carru do this -without- a rider, using the rider's "charge" skill. Carru are a kind of creature that does something that people PCs cannot do. That is what defines them. It is what makes them freakish, what makes people be concerned when they get tossed around all over the scrub.

Mantis ALSO have assorted traits that people PCs don't have. So do raptors. Dujats do too. Tregils as well. In fact, a whole fuck-ton of critters, "mobs" they're called in most games, have attributes, skills, effects, talents, and quirks that people PCs don't have.

It is the fact that they ARE different from people PCs, that makes them so much fun to deal with. Of course if you just can't stand the thought of interacting with scripted mob critters that can kill you, you can always make a tavern-sitter PC who never leaves the city.

[X-D]

Sorry, I also agree with Eloran on this point.

Pick one, either they bash you down, which is plenty deadly, or they bash you into another room and down, even more deadly.

Being able to do both, specialy with the delays you get from them is simply over the top.

Of course, a carru having such skills actually makes them easier for the larger races to kill...same for Gizhat.

[Pale Horse]

Because carru aren't mounts or player-characters, and there's no reason to assume that the characteristics of those would necessarily be extensible to carru?

Dwarvish Ranger.  Focus:  Tame and train a Carru as a mount.

Code Select Expand

With insane, gleeful laughter trailing in his wake, the stout, freakish dwarf has arrived from the north, riding a horned, golden-hued carru

Think OH SHIT!

[spawnloser]

If the carru abilities were nerfed, they wouldn't be nearly as intimidating.

Slippery slope!

Incorrect.  A slippery slope would have been to say, "If carry abilities get nerfed, what's next?  Bahamets?  Mekillots?"

[Ashes]

Because carru aren't mounts or player-characters, and there's no reason to assume that the characteristics of those would necessarily be extensible to carru?

Dwarvish Ranger.  Focus:  Tame and train a Carru as a mount.

Code Select Expand

With insane, gleeful laughter trailing in his wake, the stout, freakish dwarf has arrived from the north, riding a horned, golden-hued carru

Think OH SHIT!

Hey, I was looking for a good idea to hold in reserve in case my current died.  Thanks!

That said, I watched a piece on Discovery about early humans today, and they detailed some of their hunting habits.

If a carru gets ahold of your scrawny, soft-skinned, humanoid frame, armored or not, with its hooves and/or razor-sharp horns and gets a ton of bulky anger behind it, you're going to get your ass trampled.  That's that.  I'm all in favor of carru having extra scripts that make them scarier, and something to avoid rather than to calculate and scout out.  Risk management in Armageddon is more fun when you're actually afraid.

[Jenred]

I find it funny that an animal can send me flying, when it was established that outside rooms are decently lengthly distances. Some rooms in the mile range?

[brytta.leofa]

If the carru abilities were nerfed, they wouldn't be nearly as intimidating.

Slippery slope!

Incorrect.  A slippery slope would have been to say, "If carry abilities get nerfed, what's next?  Bahamets?  Mekillots?"

All right, you guyz: "Synthesis' principle, above, lacks internal stabilizalizatory mechanisms that would prevent a half-giant staff member from taking it as a reason to make carru infinitely dangerous."

[Qzzrbl]

It's not a nerf because in my opinion it's a bug that should be addressed.

I don't find it realistic in any sense that a carru can bash you while you're already on your butt from a previous bash.

Again, I'll reiterate:

Player-characters cannot do this.

Mounts cannot do this.

Why can carru?

Have you ever watched bull riding?

Notice how after the cowboy is flat on his ass and on the ground, the bull can easily hook him with his horns and send him flying ten feet in the air?

Same premise.

[Nyr]

NPCs sometimes have more/different skills than PCs; this is not an exception.  It is an intended feature, not a bug, as explained.

NPCs that use the charge skill (that is while mounted they charge someone with the skill), will be affected.

NPCs with special scripted bull-rush/charge/bash attacks will not be affected.