Why kill?

[Green Sparkles]

Something that came to light last night as I was Rping almost being thrown to the proverbial lions last night in my IC situation was this: What motivates someone to kill another PC (or have them killed) what they describe as IC feelings of being bored? If someone is RPing being bored IC and then decides on a whim to kill another PC, what does that say for the mental state of that PC and wouldnt there be mass people trying to kill that said PC?

Also, people put a lot of work into their PCs (from what I can see) and to have them killed on a whim seems counter productive at some level in this thing we call a game no matter how IC it would be for a character to be a psychopath. Cant there be other options short of killing to fulfill someone's IC psychopathy? Like scarring or some form or torture? Something that is IC what your character would do without causing someone to have to start all over again and go through making a new character?

I played this character for the first time in weeks and was looking to get started again and get into a roll. For this to happen affected my desire to play the game. I dont mind bad things happening but bad things on a flimsy IC reason to pick my character as a target...totally random and totally psychopathic: It is just sick to me.

[THE EXECUTIONER]

While I for ooc reasons had some issues with your death, from an IC perspective I had problem with it. You got a reprieve. You got lucky. While everyone can relate to wanting to keep a pc you like alive, this isn't the happy place with the singing munchkins. It's more like the witch's tower.

You need the link. You NEED the link.

http://www.armageddon.org/intro/overview.html


Finally, think on this. Any death that doesn't involve gith is a good death.

[EvilRoeSlade]

I don't feel that I should make a comment as to whether or not it was fair for your character to get killed.  I know its not fun to lose a character, and emotions can often distort the truth.  I know because I've been both a killer and a victim.  As a killer, I frequently have to deal with immortals after my victim makes groundless, and often untrue accusations about me.  As a victim, I have whined about being killed myself, questioning the legitimacy of an attack and probably making an ass out of myself in the process.

I'll just say this.  In your particular situation, there was probably more going on than you were aware of, and indeed you may never be aware of all that transpired.  But if it went pretty much the way you say it did, then be assured that stuff like that usually doesn't happen.

[THE EXECUTIONER]

My previous post sounded ruder and more flippant than I had intended.

I think there is a place for horrible, sudden, unexpected cruelty in the game world. More than that it's part of the lure. While I don't want to see twinks running through the streets, waving swords and killing whoever they happen upon, I like the constant threat of danger. I like knowing that life on Arm is a fragile delicate thing. If we remove that, we may as well all go play Harshlands (I have nothing against Harshlands, it's a nice game, just not edgy enough for me.)

[Spectator]

I was there, I witnessed what happened and I feel the need to give you this bit of advice.

That situation, while it happened publically, was handled completely IC'ly and was very warranted in my opinion.  Had -I- been playing The Executioner, I would have been tons more abrupt than that person played it. Without getting too IC there was a HUGE lack of respect (or simple miseducation perhaps?), but either way, it it my opinion as an observer that it was indeed warranted. at least what happened publically.  I don't know what transpired to lead to the latter part of the evening but considering the people involved I can say that 'boredom' was NOT the reason, especially since before your arrival everyone in that public place was rp'ing their asses off.

Finally a word of advice, I got the distinct feeling that you are new and that was very clear to me by your breaking character and going ooc for a matter that did not need to be approached with ooc.

Think about it for a moment.

Someone comes in to your house.
You don't know this person, they just walked in.
Instead of showing proper respect, this person insults you.
Mind you, you're having a party with all your important friends and this stranger walks into your house and insults you.
On Zalanthas, what would you do?

"Oh! Come on in! Have a drink!"

Or would you instantly be put off by the possibility that this person is probably there to cause you harm.

In someone's house, you do NOT pee in their pool. You swim by their rules.  I -know- your character had no idea what those rules were.  Think of the happenings as... schooling.  You're in a whole different world now babe. Sink or swim, it's up to you.

Complaints of unfairness on the part of other characters will not be given an audience. If you think another character was mean to you, you're most likely right.

[Pungee]

Why kill?  :shock:  :shock:  Because you can of course. After playing off and on for a year or two or three (not sure which it is) I've got to say that you know what... Most people who want to kill people ICly probably do it because they can. Now I can already hear the strangled cries of protest coming from the various galleries (peanut and otherwise) but hear me out. If you're wearing full armor that looks expensive and you happen to be armed to the teeth, people think they can't kill you. If you walk around wearing a robe with a backpack and nothing else people look at you and think easy prey. So ICly you're going to get picked on. An OOC decision probably has something to do with it half the time (Uh oh... that guy looks tuff... Better not fight him) but the other half it might be a genuine IC reason (Well, he looks like he's got some training under his belt. He'll kick my ass if I try and start something now. Best wait till he's asleep and then slit his throat).

Regardless though, it's a nasty world and theres no forensics labs in Zalanthas. No worries if you follow someone home and cut their throat. The populace is uneducated and unruly too, they'd be more inclined to join in against you if you're being beaten just so the downtrodden commoners can get a little boost of power. And if they don't want to help kick you in the ass then they sure don't want to get their skull split on account of some stranger.

No matter the situation you were in, take comfort in two things. If you did a good job on the RP despite what you thought OOCly as unfair reasoning, then pat yourself on the back. The staff will notice and commend you. They're very observant and generally we fail to notice it because they don't laud people for doing a good job. The second way you can take comfort is the fact that the people who do kill you without a fairly good reason usually meet with difficulties when they want to advance in the realm of Classes/Races or special characters. The Staff watches. The Staff knows all. Trust me, they've got your back if you were in the right.   I swear I'm not a kiss-ass though  :wink: .

Also, as to the psycopath roleplay. Typically if you're going to play a psychopath you stalk your victim, get to know them and then murder them in the manner of your choosing. There's a whole variety of psychological quirks available but the typical method is Stalk-Learn-Kill. If they're at all good at being a psycho you won't know that they were stalking you and learning your limits before they kill you. Just because you weren't aware doesn't mean they didn't RP from the shadows.

Anyway, there you go. A lengthy post of consolation. Dust yourself off and get back in there tiger.   We've all been there before and we do understand the frustration of a well liked character being mopped off the face of Zalanthas by a drunken rowdy in the Gaj or what not.

[ashyom]

This is my usual advice:  Mail the mud with your beef, and get it cleared up.  The staff handling emails will help you.

While it's okay to vent on GDB, it's touchy discussing a current IC event.
http://www.zalanthas.org/phpBB2/guidelines.php

Ashyom

[Anonymous]

Something that came to light last night as I was Rping almost being thrown to the proverbial lions last night in my IC situation was this: What motivates someone to kill another PC (or have them killed) what they describe as IC feelings of being bored? If someone is RPing being bored IC and then decides on a whim to kill another PC, what does that say for the mental state of that PC and wouldnt there be mass people trying to kill that said PC?

In time, your characters will die for whims, for pointless political moves, to thugs, to brazen nobles, to npcs everywhere - what does it matter?

Complaining about dying is like complaining there is sand in the desert.  What strikes me is that unless I am mistaken - you weren't even killed.  Are you offended that another player might try and kill your character?  It's a character - it's not a personal thing.  

Also, people put a lot of work into their PCs (from what I can see) and to have them killed on a whim seems counter productive at some level in this thing we call a game no matter how IC it would be for a character to be a psychopath. Cant there be other options short of killing to fulfill someone's IC psychopathy? Like scarring or some form or torture? Something that is IC what your character would do without causing someone to have to start all over again and go through making a new character?

Some people enjoy killing other people, there is a challenge in killing another character.  Death is the ultimate response in Armageddon because things like torture, scarring, or whatnot have no actual effect.  I've seen people tortured and just 'shrug' it off.  I've seen threads talking about torture before - it simply doesn't do anything.  Therefore, if you are killed for mouthing off and being rude you learn your lesson.

I played this character for the first time in weeks and was looking to get started again and get into a roll. For this to happen affected my desire to play the game. I dont mind bad things happening but bad things on a flimsy IC reason to pick my character as a target...totally random and totally psychopathic: It is just sick to me.

Then either A) don't play, or the better option B) play a character that no one would want to care to kill.  From what appears to have happened you are playing a character that is abrasive to those around them.

[Sandferret]

From what I read, the character was not killed. I also don't think this is so much a question about one particular IC incident, but a query as to why people like to play in a certain way.

I am not, perhaps, the right person to reply to this. I confess to have only killed one PC, ever. It was something that had to be done. So it was done. If I ever felt it needed to be done again, I would make the attempt.

I'll pose the question again in the way I saw it:
What is the point in pkilling someone you just met?

Lets forget what may or may not have happened last night, or any particular night and talk OOC. Please, let us not go into personal attacks. There is room for many kinds of people on Armageddon MUD.

[X-D]

Ever run into anybody IRL who you just instantly hated and thought about removing them from the genepool before they got a chance to breed?

Or that it simply offends you that they breath and use up valuable air?

But the best reason to kill somebody you just met IMO is that you simply feel like killing somebody and happen to want to keep all your friends around, who better to kill then the total stranger:)

[Plazgoth]

The reason for killing someone could many times not be apparent, but nevertheless it could exist.

I'll give you a hypothetical example to think about. I'll try to use RL metaphors to avoid getting into too much IC.

You are born a free man in Africa back in the day. One day a group of white men raid your village on a slave run and kill your father as he was trying to protecting the village. As you grow up you keep hearing stories about how evil the white men are and how you could never trust them. Your hatred toward them grows more and more by the day. You grow up a strong warrior for your tribe, with the deep seed of revenge rooted deep inside you. One day you travel to a town full of white men, you happen on a drunk one sleeping in the alleyway. He is a total stranger, but you feel the need for revenge taking you over, and without much waiting you slit his throat and run from the town, never to return again. Or with plans to return once a year to feed the revenge living deep into his heart, by taking the life of one of the evil white men.

If something like this happened on Arm, the person that just had his throat slit would have no clue why he was the victim, and could probably feel very angry for his character being taken away by a total stranger. And a year later another character dies for apparently no reason , but there is a very good reason it is just not publicized.

One question that could be asked is why not kill NPCs? And that is an excellent question, and the answer is if you are playing true to your role you would not care if your victim is NPC or PC. But, from my experience PCs tend to take more risks, making it easier for a potential killer to get to them. NPCs usually are smarter then to sleep in a dark alleyway, or to wonder outside the city gates alone.

There are many, many scenarios like the one I described above, all of them leaving the victim for a sense of loss and angry about their character's death.

A quick disclaimer: I was in no way involved in the situation described by the original poster, just expressing my views on reasons for killing a PC. Anytime you feel that someone's motivations are not IC, and they are acting based on purely OOC motivations you should e-mail the mud, weather or not their actions result in the death of your character.

[Green Sparkles]

:oops: To clarrify my post I will make this statement: I do not object to being killed ever. I do really have a problem however in dying for no overt reason on my part over and over again. It is not like characters are assigned to us to just log in and assume a roll. I put thought into it, created something on each of them that was reasonable as far as rationale and then did my best (as I saw it) to RP something that would seem to fit in the world. If the process were more automotaed and we as players just log on and take a role until it was dead and then you get your next automated role then I would have less problems with just up and being killed.

While I do not want to comment more on the specific situation I was more interested in the reasons WHY someone would enjoy RPing that and not have a way to punish someone short o killing them? I firmly believe the bad things that happen in RP short of the permanent solution offer so many more long lasting and rewarding experiences than just up and killing someone.

I hate to break it to some of you that we are all human and most will carry their feelings from RL at least a small portion into the game as well as feelings in the game over into RL. That doesnt mean you have to do anything different nor that I am right. I am the one lamenting and thinking I am the one that is wrong about playing in a place where getting a character's role off the ground is a difficult one when the threat of death is imminent. What I am suggesting is more how much better things other than death can be with someone that is willing to RP through those things.


Some people like characters that can be developed over time from IC experiences (like me). Some like the gritty death experience that seems to be more of what Armageddon is. I wish there was a way to have both in one place.

[Kankman]

Well Green Sparkles, I certainly understand your thoughts. I too wish that more often people would think of mean and nasty things to do to others that did not involve death. In the reality of Armageddon though, leaving an enemy alive is a dangerous thing. Even if you are in a well-protected position of power. This puts a certain level of necessity for PK at times. If I wanted to beat and rape your character in an alley, I'd better kill you or else you'll tell a Templar and then I'll be the one dead at the hands of the law.

Some people like characters that can be developed over time from IC experiences (like me). Some like the gritty death experience that seems to be more of what Armageddon is. I wish there was a way to have both in one place.

Armageddon is the place that has both. The fact that there is the constant threat of death is what makes it so beautifull and unique when your character survives a long time.

A Guest mentioned that one option you had was to make a character that nobody found offensive. Let me say making a character that
nobody found offensive would be impossible, just with people in real life. However it is entirely possible to make a character who either doesn't offend  the wrong people, or doesn't offend them enough to cause his own death.

So as the Candians say, "Aw, chipper up buckeroo. No reason to toss in the beaver yet eh?"

[Pungee]

Heh, don't worry about it too much Sparkles. We aren't trying to flame you or put you in your place, just kinda justify so that we can keep a fellow player from being discouraged. At least that was my reasoning with my post on "When PC's Attack! Part 3". It does take effort to make a char and sometimes the string of death after death makes even the most hardcore player a bit disgruntled.

[creeper386]

You are born a free man in Africa back in the day. One day a group of white men raid your village on a slave run and kill your father as he was trying to protecting the village.

Oh come one... Please. Most the time it was the black people that were enslaving their own people and selling them to whites. Whites were most the time attacked on sight. Gosh. Don't blame the people with the money, blame the people supplying the product. Yeah.

Anyways... Yeah, people die, sometimes for no apparent reason at all, or maybe you just step on some mul's favorite racing cockroach.


Creeper

[Hoodwink]

Some people enjoy killing other people, there is a challenge in killing another character. Death is the ultimate response in Armageddon because things like torture, scarring, or whatnot have no actual effect. I've seen people tortured and just 'shrug' it off. I've seen threads talking about torture before - it simply doesn't do anything. Therefore, if you are killed for mouthing off and being rude you learn your lesson.

I think, at times, maiming in particular can be a lot more effective than death.  For example, crippling a desert elf is indeed a punishment greater than death itself; imagine an elf that can't run, stripped of his pride.  I imagine for the character who prides themselves on their looks, maiming is a very effective punishment.  Or even exiling someone from their home, which isn't maiming, but a consequence potentially more impacting than death.  In fact, I think methods such as these can be far more effective than killing, depending on the situation.  If you kill someone, that's it, they're dead.  If you've severed the tips of an elf's ears, for example, (s)he's got something to strive for: revenge -- and all the fun stuff that happens between now and then.

That said, I still anticipate my first PKill, for no other reason than just because  :twisted:  And I think that death is and should be a common incident on Arm.

[deviant storm]

It is hard. You take your time building a pc, get really excited about playing him/her, really get into the character. Then she dies. We've all been there.

Once, I died three times in a real life day. Different characters. Different circumstances. I have been pk'ed, and killed as well. It is the way Armageddon is.

There are times when we all lament a pc dying, thinking of where we wanted to go and what we wanted to accomplish with it. A couple times I thought I'd never play the game again. But then, something good happened.

I got a new pc concept. This time I was going to make a merchant who was fascinated with silk, and wanted to join the Kadians. Or a dwarf, who wanted nothing more than to wander alone by himself without those hairy, flighty humans around.

Once you get over mourning your pc, maybe you'll have a concept or two buzzing around in your head. Maybe not. I hope so.

Yes, sometimes we wish something else could have been done as ic punishment. We like playing. We like the interaction of pc and pc as we delve into our roles. Armageddon is also those snatches of rp that you get between deaths. All the more golden because there's always that threat of death, either by pc or npc. Or just raw bad luck.

I'm sorry you're unhappy that your pc died. I hope you have better luck next time. Meanwhile, like the mantis says, "welcome to Armageddon."

[X-D]

Actually DS, the origanel poster's PC is still alive, Or was at the time of the posting I think.

[Anonymous]

Don't blame the people with the money, blame the people supplying the product. Yeah.

Can I blame both?

[deviant storm]

Feh, teach me not to post before having the morning caffeine. Ah, well, someday she'll die. Then she can put my comments to use. Or not.