Hide & Sit

[elvenchipmunk]

If you are standing somewhere, and are hidden, chances are quite good you could be sitting in said spot. Of course, if someone can see you, being sat down still has the negative modifiers if they attack you and such, but sitting while hidden makes sense to me.

So? Try to convince me otherwise.

[RogueGunslinger]

I cant.

I also think a bum sleeping under trash is hidden, so Rest should be taken into account too.

[Lizzie]

What I think would be great:

To have the hide skill be as reliant on location type as successful crafting has on location type, but in its own way. To wit:

On public roads/places that are generally considered populated by clusters of people at any given moment (such as the main taproom of a bar): bonus for standing, neutral for sitting (it's assumed you're sitting/crouching UNDER the table or BEHIND the bar) negative for resting.

In less congested areas within the city, such as alleys: neutral for standing, positive for sitting, neutral for resting (like the bum in the trash heap).

In the desert: negative for standing (...out like a sore thumb), neutral for sitting, bonus for resting.

In the scrub: neutral for standing (cactuses can be tall), bonus for sitting (highest likelihood of the height of whatever you're hiding behind/in, neutral for resting.

In the forest/tall grasses: neutral for standing, neutral for sitting, bonus for resting. Bonus to standing if you're in a room with a tree or trees described as being *really* wide. Because obviously, you are hiding behind a tree

These bonuses/neutrals/negatives would be ONLY for the success/failure of the hide skill. You'd still incur the usual penalties/bonuses for all other things, such as stamina regen, or loss of defenses, etc.

[Is Friday]

That is a really, really good idea.

[Salt Merchant]

I've always imagined some part of hiding involving being mobile (darting between points of safety as a possible observer moves around) or maintaining an awkward position (wedged between two chests, for example).

[Eloran]

In the desert: negative for standing (...out like a sore thumb), neutral for sitting, bonus for resting.

Yeah, because deserts are only flat. Dunes, craggy outcroppings, and storms shouldn't be factored in.

Big fix that will solve a problem I think OP is getting at: Allow your mvs pool to regen slowly if standing in one spot for a fixed amount of time. Hence, no need to rest while hidden.

That way, you can hide, then roleplay "laying down atop a dune to blend in better."

[Anael]

I totally agree with Salt Merchant. As for the lie down = rest thing, you might be flat on the ground when you're hiding, but that's completely different from resting - you're not trying to make yourself comfortable, after all.
From my childhood memories involving hide and seek, I mostly recall it as a perfect way to get a muscle cramped, and not to sit back and relax.

[a strange shadow]

Allow your mvs pull to regen slowly if standing in one spot for a fixed amount of time.

This would solve so many problems that currently crop up, and which feel mildly unrealistic.

SO MANY.

[RogueGunslinger]

I totally agree with Salt Merchant. As for the lie down = rest thing, you might be flat on the ground when you're hiding, but that's completely different from resting - you're not trying to make yourself comfortable, after all.
From my childhood memories involving hide and seek, I mostly recall it as a perfect way to get a muscle cramped, and not to sit back and relax.

Number one rule of hiding is to get a comfortable as possible, while staying concealed, you never know how long you might be hiding.

[Archbaron]

Allow your mvs pull to regen slowly if standing in one spot for a fixed amount of time.

This would solve so many problems that currently crop up, and which feel mildly unrealistic.

SO MANY.

[Sephiroto]

"crouching" and "crawling" positions would work well with this skill.  Basically the idea is to have different movement speeds for each, different modifiers to hide/sneak/defense to flat-footed attacks for each, and no hide break to go from crouching to sitting or crawling to resting.

[Gunnerblaster]

I think +1 to stamina regen while standing for a prolonged period of time would be awesome.

[RogueGunslinger]

Or sitting on a mount.

[Jenred]

Or sitting on a mount.

[Anael]

Number one rule of hiding is to get a comfortable as possible, while staying concealed, you never know how long you might be hiding.

Haven't thought about it that way. Thanks.
Small regeneration while standing still/sitting on a mount would be definitely nice.

[anotherhippie]

I would think hiding would be more movement based. Ever try to hide behind a large tree? As the person looks for you, you rotate around the tree keeping yourself from there line of sight. I would figure same thing applies, instead of a tree its a building or a trash heap. If you where hiding in a closet or under the bed, movement wouldn't be applied, In that case your not really hiding. Your hoping that who ever is searching for you. doesn't look in there. You would have no other choice but to get caught if said person looked under the bed. Hiding is the act of keeping yourself from the view of who ever you dont want seeing you. That would involve  keeping your body from there sight line, hence moving around the tree so they do not see you. ok in my personal opinion i would think that you -would- have to move and not sit to keep hiden.

[Qzzrbl]

I would think hiding would be more movement based. Ever try to hide behind a large tree? As the person looks for you, you rotate around the tree keeping yourself from there line of sight. I would figure same thing applies, instead of a tree its a building or a trash heap. If you where hiding in a closet or under the bed, movement wouldn't be applied, In that case your not really hiding. Your hoping that who ever is searching for you. doesn't look in there. You would have no other choice but to get caught if said person looked under the bed. Hiding is the act of keeping yourself from the view of who ever you dont want seeing you. That would involve  keeping your body from there sight line, hence moving around the tree so they do not see you. ok in my personal opinion i would think that you -would- have to move and not sit to keep hiden.

Depends on what your cover is.

One could easily lie down out in the desert with a sand-colored blanket covering their entirety with a little vegetation tacked on and be nigh invisible.

[RogueGunslinger]

I would think hiding would be more movement based. Ever try to hide behind a large tree? As the person looks for you, you rotate around the tree keeping yourself from there line of sight. I would figure same thing applies, instead of a tree its a building or a trash heap. If you where hiding in a closet or under the bed, movement wouldn't be applied, In that case your not really hiding. Your hoping that who ever is searching for you. doesn't look in there. You would have no other choice but to get caught if said person looked under the bed. Hiding is the act of keeping yourself from the view of who ever you dont want seeing you. That would involve  keeping your body from there sight line, hence moving around the tree so they do not see you. ok in my personal opinion i would think that you -would- have to move and not sit to keep hiden.

Depends on what your cover is.

One could easily lie down out in the desert with a sand-colored blanket covering their entirety with a little vegetation tacked on and be nigh invisible.

A lot of the cloaks/clothing in arm is described to do just this.

[Synthesis]

The way hide currently works in the game, you might as well just give all rogues and rangers the invisibility spell while you're at it.  A change like this would increase the relative value of the hide skill enormously, without any balancing factor. The only way I'd support it is if sit+hide and rest+hide were so shitty that -anyone- who bothered to scan could spot you, regardless of their scan skill. 

No stamina recovery while standing or riding, unless it were so low as to be negligible...in which case, what's the point of adding it?

[RogueGunslinger]

Actually, if the modifiers you are talking about only hampered the invisibi- hide/sneak skill, then it would have the opposite effect you're talking about.

Sneak and hide is way better than the invisibility spell, by the way.

[Synthesis]

Actually, if the modifiers you are talking about only hampered the invisibi- hide/sneak skill, then it would have the opposite effect you're talking about.

No idea what you're talking about, here.

Sneak and hide is way better than the invisibility spell, by the way.

Sort of, sometimes. I could go on, but it's not what the thread is about.

[daedroug]

This is actually an idea I posted awhile back for a way to revamp the sneaking and sleight while giving a way to do all those other things you'd want to do stealthily

Basickly this would be a way to simplify sneaking, sleight of hand, and doing other things stealthily into two commands.

Code Select Expand

>sleight get coins pack
You silently get the coins from your pack

>sleight fill waterskin pool
You silently fill the waterskin with water from the pool

> sneak stand bar
You stealthily stand at the bar

> sneak north
You stealthily move northwards

Basickly the idea is that you set a bunch of commands as to whether they work with sleight or sneak. Anything that would be moving around such as changing positions or moving from room to room would be sneak. While anything thats more about sleight of hand such as fill a water skin, getting somthing from your pack, or pick a lock would be a sleight of hand. For things that take an extra skill check I would expect a negative skill modifier since it would be harder to pick a lock and look like your not out of place (i.e. Picking a lock wile just leaning against the wall beside it.

Thoughts ideas?

Here's the original thread:
http://www.zalanthas.org/gdb/index.php/topic,27806.msg292584.html#msg292584

[RogueGunslinger]

You just described to the T what 2.arm's code is going to be like.

[Synthesis]

You just described to the T what 2.arm's code is going to be like.

Haha, I fucking hope so.

I remember this one time, I was invisible, and I opened my backpack in front of two militia PCs and they were like, "OMG DID YOU SEE THAT?! SOMEONE OPENED THEIR PACK!"

[RogueGunslinger]

Wow, what poor play.


Edit: Oh, and for reference: http://www.zalanthas.org/blogs/brideofson/archives/001414.html

Here's a sneak peak at something we're doing for Arm 2:

Currently commands are implemented to perform a specific action or skill in the game. Sometimes other uses or additional complexity that would provide more functionality need to be added to the commands. New commands are created, or command line switches added to access the added complexity. This pollutes the name space with single-use commands, or adds difficult to remember syntax, when the added behavior could be abstracted out to work in multiple other commands using a more natural approach.

Adverbial commands are commands that alter the functionality of existing commands. Most of the existing commands are 'verbs', directing user's characters what to do. Adverbial commands work like adverbial phrases in English, allowing the user to describe how they are doing an action, and providing coded benefits for doing so.

A collection of adverbs would be put together based on multiple criterion: How many commands they make sense with, the amount of complexity reduction they will provide, and the clarity and ease of use they hold for the player base. Each individual command would define what adverbs it supports. Using the adverbs provide coded modifiers or affects to the execution or results of the command for that single execution. Further commands which set the person into a 'mode' of behaving could still be done.

The intention of this is not to remove one-word commands that make sense (such as whisper and sneak), but rather allow a greater flexibility in describing your actions, as well as providing coded benefits to a wider variety of commands without having to come up with a command name that exactly fits the intention of the command.