Please Read

[jhunter]

I would like to know what former staffer's name is being used when they're pretending to be said former staffer so if I hear anything I'll know it's them.

[Nyr]

I would like to know what former staffer's name is being used when they're pretending to be said former staffer so if I hear anything I'll know it's them.

If you are hearing something from someone saying they are staff and it is not from

A send in-game
An e-mail from a staff e-mail address @ armageddon.org
A response to a request in the request queue
A post on the GDB/blog/etc from someone with a staff account

then it is not officially from a staff member.

[jhunter]

Good point, heh.

[Shalooonsh]

Armageddon players are not the healthiest people, mentally-wise, that I know.

You're asking a lot, staggerlee..

I disagree.  I have seen a great number of excellent things come out of the minds of the players of Armageddon.  I have seen several of them grow up from high schoolers to young college kids (usually they fade out for a year or so to come back) and even a few have become family members who truly care and do their best to raise their children in a solid, loving environment.  We have students, truckers, cops, military members, tech geeks, government contractors, doctors, and at least one scientist in our midst.

That's a pretty damn healthy cross-section of humanity.  I'd say by and large we are an extremely high functioning and intelligent community, Malken.  Every group has a bad apple or two, sometimes a dozen, but that doesn't change the fact that most of our players do their damnedest to get along in real life and make life good for the people around them.

If our players were a bunch of degenerate a-holes, there is no way an APM could work.  There would be fist fights or even stabbings each year, because most of the Armageddon players have very strong personalities.  The same holds true with staff.

This problem is caused by one member who, for some reason, feels jilted, cheated, or maybe, to quote Batman, just wants to watch the world burn.  Do we know the motivation?  No.  Do we know that this is an abnormality?  Absolutely.

[Dakurus]

This purpose of the post is simply to inform and caution.

I'd like to think that most of those who participate in armageddon have the games best interest at heart. They understand that the time, effort, and energy that they put in, does not always neccessarily return rewards. However the rewards when they do come are sufficient at the personal level that it's worth it for each participant in that participant's eyes. That the game, and it's participants are not perfect entities, and that compromise, acceptance, tolerance, and trust are the base tenets that everything has to be worked forward from. It's not always easy, but it's doable with a mature and reasonable audience. This contributes to keeping the game healthy, even through rough spots and disagreements, not unsimilar to any relationship. (This one just has a lot more participants)


The reality of the situation is not every participant is like this. One can guess as to why, how, history, morals, judgements, attitude, incentive, opinion, and so on, but that's a discussion of human nature and not specific to this game. I'm sorry that this is the case, but I also accept it, and do what I can to make sure the game flourishes with what we have. Resentment, anger, frustration, lack of patience, jealousy, ignorance, lack of compassion, disappointment, disagreement are just a few of the negative emotions or actions that can result from participating in armageddon, and like the human condition, while we might be able to better approach some, they aren't something that can be solved. We can focus on the positive emotions and actions to the best our ability as well, while attempting to better approach the negative ones. This serves us all.

Those that continue to choose to disregard these general ideas, but instead choose paths of hate, destruction, backstabbing, lying, inflammatory actions, slander, or take negative actions directly against the game and it's community do not serve us as individuals or as a community.

Even with differing perception and subjectivity, they're two pretty distinct sides.

Again, the point of the thread is to inform and caution.

[Malken]

Well, that's quite true, Shalooonsh, I should have added a  because I wasn't being serious. Armageddon certainly wouldn't be what it is now if it wasn't for a bunch of great players and Staffers.

We do tend to take things to the extreme, often, though, and I know from my past, when I was heavily into the OOC scene, that people were being way too serious and quick to judge the Staffers.

Conspiracy theories are certainly not lacking when it comes to Armageddon.

Even when proven wrong, they would still hold a grudge against a Staff or two.

I know that Staffers have always been fair to me, and still continue to do so (even when sometimes my wishes are answered a little abruptly, but, hey, I can certainly guess what you all have to put up with daily).

[Medena]

Being somewhat cynical and innately suspicious, I would do more than take OOC information about the inner workings of Arm with a grain of salt; it would more likely be with a generous dosing of fungicide.  I've seen this kind of stuff happen in other games and, invariably, the individuals claiming to be bringing forth the truth in order to save the game are in reality operating with their own agendas and with their own axes to grind.

Beyond my cynicism, there is another big reason why I would discount information being spread about Armageddon staff in particular.  I trust the Arm staff implicitly. Unreservedly. Yes, they do make mistakes as individuals or sometimes even collectively. They are human and it happens. I have faith however that they also can see when they've screwed up, take ownership of mistakes and then set about righting them.  The Arm staff is probably among the more mature game staff in the Internet (mature being a measure not of years but behaviour).

I've only had one moment of ever doubting their motives and intentions.  When Sanvean announced that Wizards of the Coast had bought Arm and that it would become pay-to-play, I hated her. I hated Vendyra when it was revealed that she had written the false press releases. I hated them all.  **


** Despite the intensity of my emotions which ran the gamut from anger to despair to a sense of betrayal, when they passed I had to concede it was the best April Fool's prank EVAR, thereby proving once again that Arm staff are unparalleled.

[Mood]

Being somewhat cynical and innately suspicious...
[snip]
Beyond my cynicism, there is another big reason why I would discount information being spread about Armageddon staff in particular.  I trust the Arm staff implicitly. Unreservedly.

Does not compute.

[Kronibas]

We can focus on the positive emotions and actions to the best our ability as well, while attempting to better approach the negative ones. This serves us all.

And some of our players, Dakurus, write self help books.  But seriously, that's the most Zen thing I've read all day long.  And I've read some pretty Zen stuff today.

-Fixed by Loon to place credit where due.

[Fathi]

Conspiracy theories are certainly not lacking when it comes to Armageddon.

It's the nature of the beast, unfortunately.

Any game where secrecy seems to take priority over just about every other facet of the game itself is going to have those sort of problems. Staff demand 100% transparency from players and offer none in return, therefore people are always going to want to bridge that gap. Not even necessarily out of malicious intent, but to prove that they can and just to know what's going on behind the iron curtain, so to speak.

And unfortunately, the imms' response probably only encourages the individuals in question.

For example, take these recent events. Sanvean said in her post that "plotlines have been adjusted."

In this way, the person who has been spreading this information has already accomplished more and made more changes to the gameworld than many of the people playing the game. When was the last time a PC of yours altered worldwide events in such a way? I doubt many people can say "recently" if not "ever."

The point I'm trying to make is that banning people and setting up finger-pointing afterward isn't really going to fix things. As long as the collective secrets of the code, the staff, and the game history are held up over the playerbase's heads like the holy grail of Armageddon, people are going to go after it through illegitimate means.

/derail

[FantasyWriter]

As long as the collective secrets of the code, the staff, and the game history are held up over the playerbase's heads like the holy grail of Armageddon, people are going to go after it through illegitimate means.

[Mood]

Conspiracy theories are certainly not lacking when it comes to Armageddon.

It's the nature of the beast, unfortunately.

Any game where secrecy seems to take priority over just about every other facet of the game itself is going to have those sort of problems. Staff demand 100% transparency from players and offer none in return, therefore people are always going to want to bridge that gap. Not even necessarily out of malicious intent, but to prove that they can and just to know what's going on behind the iron curtain, so to speak.

And unfortunately, the imms' response probably only encourages the individuals in question.

For example, take these recent events. Sanvean said in her post that "plotlines have been adjusted."

In this way, the person who has been spreading this information has already accomplished more and made more changes to the gameworld than many of the people playing the game. When was the last time a PC of yours altered worldwide events in such a way? I doubt many people can say "recently" if not "ever."

The point I'm trying to make is that banning people and setting up finger-pointing afterward isn't really going to fix things. As long as the collective secrets of the code, the staff, and the game history are held up over the playerbase's heads like the holy grail of Armageddon, people are going to go after it through illegitimate means.

/derail

That post right there? I'd fuck it.

[Yam]

And yet without secrecy this would just be roleplay enforced WoW.

We are caught in a delicious Catch-22.

[SmashedTregil]

Didnt read the replies, just the original post. And my only constructive commentary is something like this


"This is ... silly"


ambigious, but ... well, the whole thing is ... weird.

[Xagon]

And yet without secrecy this would just be roleplay enforced WoW.

We are caught in a delicious Catch-22.

I accidently clicked a WoW bookmark earlier, and this is exactly what went through my head. Spooky.

[Kronibas]

I know that Staffers have always been fair to me, and still continue to do so (even when sometimes my wishes are answered a little abruptly, but, hey, I can certainly guess what you all have to put up with daily).

Until December of 07, I would have said the same thing, Malken.  And that's from someone who's been playing since 99.

But then some unfair stuff went down that was the result of obvious OOC bias, and that has caused a lot of trouble for me ever since.

All it takes is one Imm, Malken, to get pissed off at you and screw you.  You may have rejected their romantic advances when they were a player, you may have PK'd one of their PCs, or perhaps one of the PCs of their good friends.  You could have killed their character's love interest.  Who knows?  I don't think most people develop these sort of long standing grudges.  But I believe that many are capable, and I'm not shy enough to admit that Armageddon is not immune to this sort of behavior.

We all have flaws and carrying grudges ranks up there with one of the top ones that people develop.  That's applicable anywhere, including ArmageddonMUD.

I'm glad that you have enjoyed a game experience completely free of OOC bias from the staff, Malken.  I bet many, many people have.

But some people get the shaft bro.  That's cool and all; you just have to roll with the punches and do the best you can, if you love ]
the game enough.  I'm just saying, some people aren't as fortunate as you.

[SMuz]

I would like to know what former staffer's name is being used when they're pretending to be said former staffer so if I hear anything I'll know it's them.

If you are hearing something from someone saying they are staff and it is not from

A send in-game
An e-mail from a staff e-mail address @ armageddon.org
A response to a request in the request queue
A post on the GDB/blog/etc from someone with a staff account

then it is not officially from a staff member.

I'm confused why anyone would believe anyone claiming a staff member from a non-staff member account. I thought that Arm players, of all people, would be immensely skeptical of any phishing.

[Thunkkin]

I'm confused why anyone would believe anyone claiming a staff member from a non-staff member account. I thought that Arm players, of all people, would be immensely skeptical of any phishing.

People are more likely to believe information that they WANT to believe.  Such a scam offers forbidden information, highly-sought secrets, plus a validation of dark sinister OOC plots and biases that a player may have long "suspected."  Fairly tempting.

Also, I have no idea what some of the posts in this thread are about.  They seem to be saying that there's too much secrecy?  What would be the solution?  Posting all the secrets would make the game more fun?  Really?

[SMuz]

That would make me all the more suspicious. Why would an imm tell me a IG secret? Everyone other than the most noobish players know that the imms are tricky brainz eaters.

[Fathi]

Also, I have no idea what some of the posts in this thread are about.  They seem to be saying that there's too much secrecy?  What would be the solution?  Posting all the secrets would make the game more fun?  Really?

If that's what you inferred from my post, then I guess I'd better take a communications class or two.

The point I was trying to make is that it isn't staff actions or the inherent douchebaggy nature of certain players that leads to stuff like this happening. It's the nature of the game and the culture the game cultivates.

[Tzurahro]

Conspiracy theories are certainly not lacking when it comes to Armageddon.

It's the nature of the beast, unfortunately.

Any game where secrecy seems to take priority over just about every other facet of the game itself is going to have those sort of problems. Staff demand 100% transparency from players and offer none in return, therefore people are always going to want to bridge that gap. Not even necessarily out of malicious intent, but to prove that they can and just to know what's going on behind the iron curtain, so to speak.

And unfortunately, the imms' response probably only encourages the individuals in question.

For example, take these recent events. Sanvean said in her post that "plotlines have been adjusted."

In this way, the person who has been spreading this information has already accomplished more and made more changes to the gameworld than many of the people playing the game. When was the last time a PC of yours altered worldwide events in such a way? I doubt many people can say "recently" if not "ever."

The point I'm trying to make is that banning people and setting up finger-pointing afterward isn't really going to fix things. As long as the collective secrets of the code, the staff, and the game history are held up over the playerbase's heads like the holy grail of Armageddon, people are going to go after it through illegitimate means.

/derail

I read this post several times, and I have chosen to debate it.  Not because it is wrong, but because it is thoughtful, and I disagree with a few points.  I do agree the secrets of the game have a powerful allure, and are as tempting as any forbidden fruit.  Unfortunately, "Having a thing is often not so pleasant as wanting a thing.  It is not logical, but it often true." - Spok, Amok Time.

Where I challenge the above quote is the claim that "secrecy seems to take priority over just about every other facet of the game."  I know to a player it could seem that way, but I know that is not true.  I think the highest priority for the game (from the staff perspective) is to create an involving, detailed, cohesive story.  Not revealing every method to achieve this is sometimes a necessary tool.  Secrecy is only an ingredient, although sometimes mandatory.  It is not the goal.  And, from what I've seen, secrecy is only used where necessary.  It has no place at all unless it is somehow serving the above purpose.  I can think of nothing that is withheld just to be withheld.  In every instance I can see, anything that is not openly distributed is only "kept in shadow" for the player's benefit.  In every instance I can find, the use of secrecy is only to enhance enjoyment and the thrill of discovery.  I know that I want people to find the goodies I have hid for them.  Really.  I want them to have that "wow".

I also disagree about transparency.  Staff do not demand 100% transparency from players.  I think it makes it better if your character's actions, desires and motivations are transparent to staff.  Less for us, but more for the player.  It helps us have the environment react more appropriately.  If your character's goals are inscrutable, you can't expect anyone staff side to consider how they might appropriately succeed or what path might lead you there.  Also, there are many, many, many tools to make staff activities more transparent to the players.  Weekly updates, game changes log, player-staff meeting.  This forum.  Most every other area of staff activity that is not transparent is again done for the benefit of the player's enjoyment.  The downside for staff of such efforts is that they might be completely invisible, probably unrecognized and never acknowledged.

And the final point for debate would be the impact that players have on the game-path.  This one I really sympathize with.  Although many, many characters do not significantly alter the big story arcs or change the world in noticeable ways, I think it is fair to say that a surprisingly large number of characters have had drastic and unforeseen impacts.  And here is the sad part:  without their player likely ever understanding it.  And we don't tell them because they might find out through the ripple effects still going on.  And no one wants to ruin that stunning, jaw-dropping "wow" moment for them.

None of this is official staff opinion.  It is just Tzu.

[flurry]

The point I was trying to make is that it isn't staff actions or the inherent douchebaggy nature of certain players that leads to stuff like this happening. It's the nature of the game and the culture the game cultivates.

I get the impression from the OP that this situation is more malicious than your run of the mill IC info gossip, though. Which doesn't seem like something the game cultivates.

[Krath]

I think if people realized it was a game you can not win
it would clear up a lot of problems like this.

[Malken]

I think if people realized it was a game you can not win
it would clear up a lot of problems like this.

You can win it and many have done so in the past.. Saying that you can not 'win' Armageddon is wrong.

[Kol]

If our players were a bunch of degenerate a-holes, there is no way an APM could work.  There would be fist fights or even stabbings each year, because most of the Armageddon players have very strong personalities.  The same holds true with staff.

Heh heh heh, I just had an amazing mental image of all the Arm players in a huge face-off, Sha on one side with the staff, and the players on the the other......Kinda like a royal rumble....with bone Ken-tar knives and Thuja-hilted war axes