Please Read

[Sanvean]

Hey folks. We've got a situation where a disgruntled player has been passing themself off as former staff and pretending to give people the "real" information about the game in an attempt to stir up as much trouble as possible. It's complicated by signs indicating that they are either the person who managed to hack into the staff boards for a while or affiliated with them, since they've been salting in enough real information to make themselves seem legitimate.

I don't know what to say about that, except that it's more than a bit discouraging to see someone doing their best to harm the game. It's probably a compliment that they care so much that they're driven to do this, although it's kinda like the old boyfriend who turns into a stalker.

I'd ask you to look at OOC information with a discerning eye before taking it at face value, since apparently this yahoo is trying their best to get people to bite on it.

For what it's worth, I can tell you that throughout the almost two decades I've worked with Armageddon, we've been pretty scrupulous about staffing, and quick to fire people for doing unethical things. I came from a MUD where that wasn't the case, and it's always been a point of pride with me that we work to make sure things are fair for players and staff and that processes are made transparent where we can.  Does that mean there's never been issues? Heck no. But when they pop up, they get fixed.

I've posted this here rather than in Staff Announcements because I'm willing to answer some questions about this - I'm not going to go into details of the hack, obviously, but will say that plotlines being discussed on the staff boards have been adjusted, a lot of passwords changed, and so forth. I'm also not willing to discuss circumstances of past staff members leaving staff because I feel that's really their business and not anyone else's. I will answer what I can, though.

Later edit: I don't know for sure this is connected with the hack. If it's not, however, the timing and circumstances seem very odd.

[Riev]

Out of curiosity, are you talking about basic things in the game? Like syntax, and where to go for x item? Or do you mean someone is passing off DEFINITE IC knowledge like "Do this 2 became Sorcaror"?

And are you talking about a 'new' hack to the IDB? Or the one that happened a short while ago?

[Sanvean]

I'm not talking about game mechanics stuff, but things like "Amos, the tall dark man, is the ghost that has been terrorizing Allanak".

And yes, the one that happened a short while ago. I'd thought we'd pretty much taken care of all that, but found out yesterday that someone has been trying to stir things up and that they're passing themself off as former staff, presumably using info gleaned from the IDB. Why? I have no clue, but I presume it's a complicated form of griefing.

[Eloran]

I personally think you may be reading into things a bit too much.

For instance, do you have evidence to back up your point of contention that the person in question who hacked the IDB is the one posing as former staff?

I'm not accusing you of jumping the gun or pointing fingers, but I can tell you with certainty that people pose as staff all the time.

I am thinking of two individuals right now that love to feed others a lot of bullshit, but when you really start questioning them about things their story falls apart, or becomes tangled in a handwoven basket laden with bullshit.

Just saying.

[Riev]

If its someone posing as other people, my finger is at a certain french man whose name sounds like "Mustafa". (kidding)

So, basically, take everyone someone may say in an OOC manner with a grain of salt? Done, and double done. Should be common sense by now.

[RogueGunslinger]

Sounds like a witch hunt. Too much drama on the boards lately, if you ask me. Is the moon full or something?

How much damage has this person caused? Have whatever damages done been repaired? Are things set back in order? How much more false ooc communication can we expect?

I'd ask you to look at OOC information with a discerning eye before taking it at face value, since apparently this yahoo is trying their best to get people to bite on it.

I'd also encourage people to report any abuse of this sort to staff. If someones spreading OOC information, whether false or not it should be quelled.

[Sanvean]

I'm sure there's plenty of people out there handing out their brand of bullshit. This time we've have issues with people writing in being outraged and then turning out to be going by false info supposedly given them by a recent staff member. Because this is happening now, I want people to be aware that it's going on, so if they get approached they are a little cautious before buying into it.

Damage? Erosion of trust between staff and players is always bad, imo. People should be able to play and have a good time and not worry about anything but that. Staffers should be able to help facilitate game play without having to worry about their plotlines getting skewed.

So, basically, take everyone someone may say in an OOC manner with a grain of salt? Done, and double done. Should be common sense by now.

Amen, Riev.

[Vessol]

Maybe it's because I've not been playing much or because I talk to a limited amount of Armers OOCly and when we do talk it is very rarely about Armageddon.

People should always tread careful when getting any information that could be considered IC in an OOC fashion. Regardless of what they are told(whether it be falsely propagated rumors or otherwise) they should still never play the actual game with that knowledge in their characters mind and actions, that is just plain bad RP and I would expect nothing less of karma dock or at the very least a stern talking to by the Imms.

[Sanvean]

I'm really not interested in sorting through all the who said what and tracking down who should get karma docked - I pretty much feel that what goes around comes around, and unscrupulous people end up hurting themselves more than anyone else. My main interest here is preventing more people buying into the BS and getting upset or soured on the game.

[RogueGunslinger]

I don't think it's the staffs job to be our mother, nor our moral police. IF they find someone intentionally harming the game, said person should -not- receive a warning. They should be banned.

[Shalooonsh]

I don't think it's the staffs job to be our mother, nor our moral police. IF they find someone intentionally harming the game, said person should -not- receive a warning. They should be banned.

Banning will not stop the individual from disseminating errant information in an attempt to harm the bond between players and staff.  If an individual is found harming the game, they are quite quickly dealt with as we see fit.  If they are banned, then that is the punishment, but this in no way prevents them from attempting to contact old friends and spew disinformation.

This is what we are attempting to quell.

[Xagon]

My suggestion: If you do get your hands on this information for some reason, don't look at it. For me, the more I know about any given game, the more I feel that I've beaten it, and the lower its replay value drops.

Put it on a floppy/CD/zip drive, delete it from your computer, than mail it to yourself in 30 years. By that time, you'll probably have moved on in your life, and the friendly letter in the mail will bring you back!

[Yam]

Is it that tiny alien guy who made the google group that disseminated a bunch of IC info back for more?

That guy was fun.

[Maso]

This makes me sad.

But you have to put yourself in a certain position to receive any kind of IC information anyway. I've been there by accident and ignorance and hated it. It's easier just not to talk to anyone except the people you really trust. And by trust, I don't mean 'trust not to tell on you for chatting IC info' but 'trust not to talk about IC info at all'.

If you think you're getting ahead in the game by talking IC stuff with people, if you think it gives you advantage...you're wrong. All it does it make the game less enjoyable. It bursts the bubble and it can take a long time to get it back.

[Kronibas]

I think it really sucks that someone is damaging the game in such a way, Sanvean, and it is in no way justifiable.

Having said that, I believe a lot of players have feelings of unrest or discontent due to certain ongoing out of character problems,
and it really doesn't surprise me that someone would lash out in this current climate.  I know there has always been some degree
of conflict between the staff and the players at times - you noted this conflict and the perceived rudeness of the staff, /please/
correct me if I'm wrong, in the article you wrote, saying that some staff members continue to relish this image -, but currently it
seems as though it's happening more than usual.   They say these things, just like the population ratios in the city states, go in
cycles, and maybe that's it.  But there's still some things that, to me, don't smell right.

(I'm sorry I don't have a link to the article, or I would reread it and quote exactly what you said, Sanvean  That's the best I can recall from memory, and I apologize if I misquoted you.  A link would be great if you or anyone else has one)

Sanvean, it may very well be true that there is no more discontent than before.  Unlike Gimf, I am not a data person.  It took me more
than once to get through college algebra, so I can't show you any statistics or anything; however, that's the impression I've been left
with after reading various threads that  have cropped up over the past month or so.  One could say that it is a small yet vocal minority
of people who are stirring up a ruckus - and one could definitely say that about the attack on the boards - but you have to wonder, why
are these people so upset?


Some good, long-term players have quit recently.  Other folks are just plain resentful and about events that are going on now or
have happened recently.

And with all these people getting their feelings hurt, there's bound to be some loon who steps over the line and acts out in a way
that will draw the most attention to their discontent.

I think we need to honestly look at ourselves and ask, "Why are people angry enough at the game to risk being banned from it in order to express their discontent?"

Heck, Sanvean... I can name three times myself in the past year when I was really upset with you guys.  And it takes a lot to
stir me up, it really does.  I bet lots of other folks have had the same happen to them, too.  You know, getting their feelings
hurt really bad.

I know you staffers pay money, give time, and try your best to do what's right.  But sometimes staff, even high up staff, do
things that just ain't right.  I'm not saying that this fella or fellas who have been causing malicious, damaging ruckus were wronged
by the staff, but I bet they sure think they were.  It's hard to see any other motivation other than sadism or attention mongering.
Or a combination of two.. or all three.

Like I said, I know all you players and staffers do your damnedest, and that makes me real proud.  Real proud to be a part of
a community that has spanned two decades and included thousands of folks.  I'm really proud of some of our staff and really
proud of some of our players, but I just know that I'd be more proud if some players wouldn't act out like this, showing their
frustration in harmful ways, and if the some of staff would listen more (I don't think some listen so much as they do arbitrate,
but I damn sure know  there's a lot of there who do listen, and that's as awesome as a whale shark.  Really, I've always thought
those were really  awesome animals).



I recently had a row with y'all, but I'm trucking right along to help enrich the game.  However, I've got a couple of sore spots
still hanging around, and I know I'm not the only one. Someone going too far and doing something like this is good evidence
of that.

I know you do your damnedest, Sanvean, but I really think if you Overlord guys weighed your opinion on things more, then
maybe bad events like these two here recently wouldn't happen.  I say this because the vast majority of staff complaints I
have heard about are about Highlords.  And in my experience, it's always those guys who answer the complaint emails or
submitted complaints.  I don't think peers monitoring each other is a good idea because for things like a player's hurt feelings
they probably won't rock the boat and disagree with one another.  I'm not saying that the Overlords don't monitor.. I'm
absolutely sure they do.   But let's face it, there ain't many of you guys.

And I know y'all can't keep up with everyone's hurt feelings.  I know a few've the things I've sent to Overlords only has
fallen on deaf ears without even a reply, and this is recently.  That's okay, because I know you're all busy.  But it just shows how
a person could get frustrated enough to do something like this, especially when they think they're being unfairly treated or
picked on by a Highlord. Even when they might not necesarily be being wronged, they still aren't getting feedback, so it
probably discourages folks.

Please, listen.

I'm not trying to be critical because I appreciate  what all is done, has been done, and will be done by the staff. From
the bottom of my heart.  I've never played a game so long or loved one so much. But I think there's some problems.  Maybe
not real big  problems like some folks make them out  to be, but problems nonetheless... And I don't think some of them are
handled appropriately. 

I dunno what else to say.  I'd give you a couple of examples if you want, Sanvean, but such things ain't for public forums.  If you want an email, I'll send it.

Anyway... I hope you catch people who are messing with imm boards.  To me, that seems about like one of the worst things that can happen, short of getting access to the game or Ginka itself.  Disgruntled people who have had their feelings hurt bad enough to quit or just don't care any more aren't justified at all in what they do.  But I bet we could keep more folks from becomming disgruntled, if we took extra steps.  But those steps won't be easy, and I know there's not a manual on how to keep folks from being that way.  And I sure ain't smart enough to write one.

Sincerely,
Kronibas

[RogueGunslinger]

That's the longest post I've read on these forums... I agree with alot of what Kronibas just said.

[staggerlee]

I think we need to honestly look at ourselves and ask, "Why are people angry enough at the game to risk being banned from it in order to express their discontent?"

These people need to step back and consider:

A: Whether their sense of entitlement is justified.
and
B: Whether or not it's healthy to be reacting so strongly to a game.

These attitudes come up all the time in online communities, and I've suffered from it myself from time to time. MUDs demand a level of commitment that can be extremely unhealthy, and it's very easy to lose perspective.  I really think that people that feel depressed or enraged about a game need to step back and think about what they're doing.

I'm not trying to say that the game is perfect, but that the reactions of players are often highly disproportionate to the importance of the game.

[RogueGunslinger]

Is the moon full or something?

Wouldn't you know, it was a full moon...

[Twilight]

I've never found the staff to be anything but fair, even when it has negatively impacted me.

People who choose to communicate OOC'ly outside of these boards are opening themselves up to this.  While I agree with emailing the staff about it, I feel that being upset with the staff about OOC communication outside the GBD is hypocritical of them.  The staff does a good job of moderation here.  Venture outside the gates into the wastes at your own risk.

[Ghost]

B: Whether or not it's healthy to be reacting so strongly to a game.

However, people are investing so much time on it.  Nobody would be reacting to an arcade game this way.  But when we are talking about armageddon, each character is taking so much time, that when you think there is an injustice regarding your character, it is all that time that is being threatened, not a simple game.  Especially long livers, it might take away months, even years of investment, all that time built up in the game.

[Nyr]

Anyway... I hope you catch people who are messing with imm boards. 

We did shortly after it occurred.

[RogueGunslinger]

B: Whether or not it's healthy to be reacting so strongly to a game.

However, people are investing so much time on it.  Nobody would be reacting to an arcade game this way.  But when we are talking about armageddon, each character is taking so much time, that when you think there is an injustice regarding your character, it is all that time that is being threatened, not a simple game.  Especially long livers, it might take away months, even years of investment, all that time built up in the game.

Hate to parallel WoW here, but if my roommate lost his 80 Paladin, decked out in some of the best gear of the game, due to some bug and blizz reps weren't friendly, kind, or supporting in every way, he'd probably bomb Blizzard headquarters.

Don't really know what this adds to the discussion.

[staggerlee]

These people need to step back and consider:

A: Whether their sense of entitlement is justified.
and
B: Whether or not it's healthy to be reacting so strongly to a game.

These attitudes come up all the time in online communities, and I've suffered from it myself from time to time. MUDs demand a level of commitment that can be extremely unhealthy, and it's very easy to lose perspective.  I really think that people that feel depressed or enraged about a game need to step back and think about what they're doing.

I'm not trying to say that the game is perfect, but that the reactions of players are often highly disproportionate to the importance of the game.

However, people are investing so much time on it.  Nobody would be reacting to an arcade game this way.  But when we are talking about armageddon, each character is taking so much time, that when you think there is an injustice regarding your character, it is all that time that is being threatened, not a simple game.  Especially long livers, it might take away months, even years of investment, all that time built up in the game.

Hate to parallel WoW here, but if my roommate lost his 80 Paladin, decked out in some of the best gear of the game, due to some bug and blizz reps weren't friendly, kind, or supporting in every way, he'd probably bomb Blizzard headquarters.

Don't really know what this adds to the discussion.

Yes. The excessively strong reactions are related to the monstrous time commitment these games require.  It's an understandable reaction, but I covered that in my post.

Anyway. I don't want to derail this into a debate about what is or isn't healthy or normal, that's up to the individual.
My point was in the last line.

[Malken]

Armageddon players are not the healthiest people, mentally-wise, that I know.

You're asking a lot, staggerlee..

[Thunkkin]

I think the main point of this thread is that when someone comes to you, trying to pass themselves off as former staff and/or using OOC information to stir up anger at the staff - they may be someone VERY malicious.  As in, not just a rightfully angered player, but rather someone who is hacking the GDB.  

One shouldn't listen to these people anyway (no OOC discussions of IC stuffs!), but this thread serves as an extra warning.  I don't think staff shared this information in order to start the monthly "veterans are leaving!" thread.  (Not that we can't discuss that - but is this really the thread for it?).