Training rooms idea

[alicedavignon]

Do you know these cases when you have a XY days old sub-par character (e.g. elf assassin) training with Byn, Legions, whatever just to get killed within the training room by somebody who made a dwarf/human warrior and rolled nice stats and likes clubs? This happened to me before (half-elf assassin vs warrior human, probably played by someone very new to this game) and was pretty annoying. Just now almost the same thing repeated, but the player, thankfully, knew what he was doing.

What I'm suggesting is something along the lines of Mercy that is mandatory for training rooms, but can be overridden with "kill X now" similarly to how you jump off the Shield Wall. I might be guessing, but most of the time when this sort of thing happens, it is either because the player doesn't know about mercy or simply forgot to put it on. It's a code issue that could cause RP damage (I mean, common, you don't beat your friend dead once he passes out).

What do you think?

[Gunnerblaster]

I agree. If, in real life, I was ever having a nice little ringer with a friend - I wouldn't smash his skull in the moment he crumples to the ground or I'm not going to go, "Oh sweet! He's down!" and chop his head off.

I am getting very tired of using corney excuses when telling someone else why their friend or some super high ranking superior was off'd in a training drill.

I would prefer that training areas should have an 'auto-mercy' feature. If you want to turn it off, then you toggle "mercy off" manually. Not very hard.

[FantasyWriter]

If I get below 70% of my HPs, I flee... I don't disengage, I don't wait on them to disengage I get the feck out.
Sparring down to 50% or less of your HP is bad OOC, just think, you are HALF DEAD.

Pretty sure no NORMAL PC other than a HG or a mul can two or three hit kill a PC with sparring weapons.
I think most sparring deaths happen by people getting too comfortable with letting their HP get too low.
(plus people stupid enough to spar HG and muls, which most clans have OOC rules against doing so)

[Bushranger]

Just like walking through city gates 'forces' a save on your character. Walking into a training room should 'force' mercy on. As Gunnerblaster says, when the intention is to kill in a training room the player can easily set mercy off before they fight. Three fallout mutated thumbs up.

I do agree that some folks are too comfortable about sparring till they are very low HP, but I can also see other things like loosing connection during sparring with folks who forgot to set mercy on before initiating combat being solved by this.

[mangler]

I strongly agree, I can think of one perticular case of this which irritated me considerably. And as GunnerBlaster said, it seems insane that anyone in their right mind would continue to bash in the skull of a superior or friend after they are clearly incapable of defending themselves, inless some kind of RP planning the kill had gone on beforehand. And those excuses.. they are so transparent and feel so jarring.. when your trying to explain how some really well played and experienced character got munched in a run of the mill training session.

[alicedavignon]

Pretty sure no NORMAL PC other than a HG or a mul can two or three hit kill a PC with sparring weapons.
I think most sparring deaths happen by people getting too comfortable with letting their HP get too low.
(plus people stupid enough to spar HG and muls, which most clans have OOC rules against doing so)

Very hard hit on your head with a hammer + knockout + hit on unconscious body is very deadly. I can confirm that.

[RogueGunslinger]

Yeah, it' getting knocked out that rocks your face.

I had a dwarf with exceptional strength who constantly knocked out his opponents with a spear. Made me want to make him a club user.

[Synthesis]

Pretty sure no NORMAL PC other than a HG or a mul can two or three hit kill a PC with sparring weapons.
I think most sparring deaths happen by people getting too comfortable with letting their HP get too low.
(plus people stupid enough to spar HG and muls, which most clans have OOC rules against doing so)

Very hard hit on your head with a hammer + knockout + hit on unconscious body is very deadly. I can confirm that.

The problem is one of selection:  those who are most likely to knock you out in sparring are also those who are most likely to end your life with a second blow to a critical location.  Dwarves and humans can land extremely powerful blows even with sparring weapons, especially if you're unconscious.

[mangler]

Pretty sure no NORMAL PC other than a HG or a mul can two or three hit kill a PC with sparring weapons.
I think most sparring deaths happen by people getting too comfortable with letting their HP get too low.
(plus people stupid enough to spar HG and muls, which most clans have OOC rules against doing so)

Very hard hit on your head with a hammer + knockout + hit on unconscious body is very deadly. I can confirm that.

The problem is one of selection:  those who are most likely to knock you out in sparring are also those who are most likely to end your life with a second blow to a critical location.  Dwarves and humans can land extremely powerful blows even with sparring weapons, especially if you're unconscious.

Not only this, but also the blows from these extremely strong people that knocked you out in the first place tend to be very hard ones to the head/neck, dealing high HP losses, leaving your character on a perhaps lower level of HP than you might normally let it drop to, and it can be unpreventable if someone dual weilding lands a pair of brutal blugeons or whatever, making it even more likely the subsequent blows may end your character.

[Agent_137]

Many years ago, i was witness to this type of event. Trooper Henna killed Runner Raleth right before the eyes of his brother, Runner Rame (me.) Henna was a dwarf, using sparring clubs, with mercy ON. it was a one hit immediate kill through Raleth's helmet. He had over 80 health before the hit and was warrior class.

it produced some interesting RP for my char, who went on to be a sergeant, but no more interesting RP than had Raleth actually survived. I think deaths like that are ridiculous and not even realistic, much less a boon to playability.

However, if people are forgetting mercy on and killing people, well, an auto-mercy feature should be ok as long as it toggles it back when you leave. But how would it remember? I see big problems with silently turning on mercy every-time you enter the training area and leaving it on. However a notification to it was turned on would also be bad, constantly breaking the 4th wall.

• Instead of auto-mercy on, have training areas just check PCs an they enter for mercy status. If Off, they get a private and automatic  reminder: your mercy is off, and you may kill someone in the sparring ring. type Mercy On to enable mercy.. Everyone else with mercy on already gets no note.

PCs who spar past 80% health deserve to die in the ring. As does anyone sparring an HG. Muls & Dwarves should also only be sparred by very experienced PCs. This is just IC good sense.

[alicedavignon]

But how would it remember?

No big deal really. Mercy on to all characters, without echo, on entry, mercy off on exit to those, who had it off before. Or just do that "kill now" thing.

[Agent_137]

It's still far too intrusive for my tastes. Plus, coding it as a simple  . . .

Code Select Expand

If (mercy != On) {
Alert("turn on your mercy");
return false;
}
Else{
return true;
}
. . . would be much faster than coding in memory and toggling.

[Gagula]

even still, I haven't had any problems when I "with hold the finishing blow" other than my sheepish chuckling.  Actually, me and a friend were talking about how we'd mess with someone when we forgot, and RP it out.

[Gunnerblaster]

It's still far too intrusive for my tastes. Plus, coding it as a simple  . . .

Code Select Expand

If (mercy != On) {
Alert("turn on your mercy");
return false;
}
Else{
return true;
}
. . . would be much faster than coding in memory and toggling.

I dig this. If anyone actuallys -kills- someone in a sparring ring, then harsher punishments can be initiated since the player (not the PC) was OOC warned.

[Good Gortok]

I think sparring weapons should be a lot less deadly. They are currently only slightly worse than the lower quality weapons of the same type, and anyone with a high strength can easily inflict crippling blows with a padded sparring weapon. Not only is the realism questionable in that regard, but it also makes sparring really annoying. Since there's no way of deliberately toning down your effort in a fight other than equipping a weapon you're not skilled with or using it in our secondary hand, strong or high-skilled combatants frequently obliterate newer ones so fast that little is gained from the sparring match. If you get to swing your weapon once and then suffer two consecutive wounds to the head, the match is over and you got next to nothing out of it. Sometimes, if you're in a combat-oriented clan at a time when most of your clanmates are dwarves and/or long-lived warriors, this can become the norm. There's also the matter of roleplay, you don't have a very large window to do so when matches often last only a handful of rounds. Many players already dislike sparring because the atmosphere is always so bland, and this just adds to it. If possible, I would like to see sparring weapons all made 1d2 with half strength bonus.

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

I'm down with the idea, BUT!

A good leader can, no matter how skilled he is, make a fight last long enough for you to get some good learning out of it. If your boss is one hit killing you, don't spar with him. If you, the boss, are one hit killing your employees, get a clue.

For the record:

Disengage allows you to stop hitting your foe, while allowing them to hit, or try to hit, you.
Rp/Rs/Rtwo allows you to stop holding a weapon at any time you want to.
THERE IS NO DELAY ON THESE COMMANDS!

If you land 2 wounds or 1 horrendous or higher to your opponent, rp/rs INSTANTLY.
Then disengage, then flee if you like. Or, let them try to beat you up a bit.

Point is, good fighters can keep weak fighters alive in the sparring ring. If you kill another PC without meaning to for any reason other than network lag on your end, it's your fault. Even muls and HGs can follow these rules without killing anybody in 99% of cases. You may hit them hard, for a lot of HP, but in nearly every case, it's the dual-wield horrendous hits, or the knockout-unspeakable that KILL the weak fighter. THAT'S what you can prevent nearly every time.

NEVER SPAR PAST around 70% of your HP. You lose 25-30%, STOP, right there.

Now, again, for the record, I like the idea of having the alert. I also like the idea of having the alert for when you leave the sparring area.

[Good Gortok]

The problem is that you don't need to be that good of a fighter to mutilate people left and right in the sparring hall. It's as much a problem for the wreaker of havoc as it is for the victim. I remember last time I was in the Byn, a dwarf warrior joined, and within a RL week he was on the list of people not allowed to spar with runners because he was maiming them instantly just because of his strength. Lucky for him, the clan had two active sergeants and three or four troopers at the time. If that had not been the case, he would be a very bored dwarf. And this is not exclusive to dwarves, they just tend to be the source of the problem more frequently than others. I know it's somewhat off topic, but there has to be a better alternative than forcing one party of the sparring match to forego his training in order to let the other participate. Some of the clans only have two or three members.

[alicedavignon]

Now, again, for the record, I like the idea of having the alert. I also like the idea of having the alert for when you leave the sparring area.

To be honest, I don't like the idea of a warning. You know those warning Windows gives you about you being sure if you want to delete a file? The ones you get used to and click past them subconsciously.

While I wouldn't mind a warning (better than nothing), I am in favour off a hard mercy on or something similar.

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

The problem is that you don't need to be that good of a fighter to mutilate people left and right in the sparring hall. It's as much a problem for the wreaker of havoc as it is for the victim. I remember last time I was in the Byn, a dwarf warrior joined, and within a RL week he was on the list of people not allowed to spar with runners because he was maiming them instantly just because of his strength. Lucky for him, the clan had two active sergeants and three or four troopers at the time. If that had not been the case, he would be a very bored dwarf. And this is not exclusive to dwarves, they just tend to be the source of the problem more frequently than others. I know it's somewhat off topic, but there has to be a better alternative than forcing one party of the sparring match to forego his training in order to let the other participate. Some of the clans only have two or three members.

There is. Follow my rules. The situation will then be dealt with.

However, I understand what you're saying. But skill has nothing to do with having 'rp' ready in the input area, wating to be entered.

[Fathi]

Like 7DV, I've always followed the practice of immediately dropping my weapons after a particularly powerful hit KOs a sparring opponent. Especially if I'm playing a PC that I know could possibly end the fellow's life with one more strong hit. Like many others, I have had post-KO hits go through even with mercy on, which sucks.

However, I wouldn't be against a hard-coded solution because, while 7DV's strategy works just fine, it requires very quick fingers to pull off and it seems like an unnecessary pain in the ass when dealing with a situation that, unless a sparring 'accident' is trying to be faked, probably should not happen.

My reasoning on the subject is this: in the case of a skilled fighter versus an unskilled fighter, wouldn't it make sense that the skilled fighter is more aware of their presence, more aware of the strength behind their blows, more adept at striking non-vital locations, and more capable of pulling their punches so as to still deliver a real "combat" type experience in training without accidentally mauling someone to death?

I'm aware this wouldn't apply to fighters that are just insanely strong, not necessarily more skilled, but what I'd like to see would be some sort of 'training' flag you could add to yourself that would significantly handicap your character's offensive abilities without hindering their defense.

Of course, while you toggle this flag on, you are more prone to fail your offensive skills and thus won't skill up from the failures.

It's a very rough idea, but I like it more than adding a reminder to turn on mercy, simply because I've witnessed so many incidents where mercy has straight up failed to work. It makes no sense that two skilled fighters not attempting to disable each other still often manage to.

I know combat is unpredictable and should carry an element of risk, but I hate what a moron I always feel like when my strong, skilled PCs who are supposedly nearing levels of combat mastery always seem to trip and accidentally plunge their sparring daggers into their buddies' jugulars.

[Morrolan]

The Low Tech solution:

If you would like to see a feature like this, but don't want to wait for staff to implement, then set a trigger for a bit of text in your favorite sparring room that does one of the following:
>mercy stat
or
>mercy on

Find a little piece of text on your way out of the sparring room, and use that to flag it back off, if you like.

(This, of course, will not save you from someone else!)

Morrolan

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

I think sparring weapons should be a lot less deadly. They are currently only slightly worse than the lower quality weapons of the same type, and anyone with a high strength can easily inflict crippling blows with a padded sparring weapon.

I also agree with this, for the record.

[alicedavignon]

The Low Tech solution:

If you would like to see a feature like this, but don't want to wait for staff to implement, then set a trigger for a bit of text in your favorite sparring room that does one of the following:
>mercy stat
or
>mercy on

Find a little piece of text on your way out of the sparring room, and use that to flag it back off, if you like.

(This, of course, will not save you from someone else!)

Morrolan

What I tend to do is keep mercy on all the time. I'd rather leave a nearly dead gortok alive for the next few moments than accidentally kill someone in the ring. But as you've said, it won't save -me- in the ring and is an mediocre solution at best.

[Good Gortok]

There is. Follow my rules. The situation will then be dealt with.

But that's what I mean by foregoing your own training. If your strength is so high that this alone grants you an average hit of "very hard" with a training axe, and you frequently have to drop your weapon or disengage after seconds of sparring in order to not massacre your opponent, you're sacrificing your own training. Likewise, the problem is the same if you need to use training daggers because you hit too hard with other weapon types. It's very easy for a clan to end up with a period of time where few members can train with eachother and get much out of it. This is understandable if you're the 50 day warrior sergeant, but the problem occurs when very "young" characters who happened to roll EG/EX strength need to do the same.


Noone likes these comparisons, but another RPI has sparring weapons that deal very little damage. You can often pummel eachother for five minutes straight without losing more than a third if your life force. While this may not be extremely realistic either, it does allow for extensive roleplay and offers ample opportunity to show off your fighting style, or to demonstrate techniques for training. Armageddon does not, and "training sessions" often amount to the sergeant waving his sword vaguely and remining the recruits which end to hold it followed by a round of coded teach.

If this seems like it might become too "twinkish" with people sparring for so long and potentially gaining too much coded advancement, I would like to point out that our current alternative is even worse. As it stands, the most effective way of becoming a skilled combatant is to either shank people in lawless areas where you can "train" until you're satisfied that you've become better, or to look for the animal with the highest agility and the weakest bite to teach you how to become a mighty warrior or hunter. For anyone willing to do such things, (and there's quite a lot who are) systematic training with professional teachers is actually one of the least effective ways of learning, because you might only get something out of it every other time, and you can't train whenever you like.


Okay, that was too far off topic.

[SMuz]

Disengage has a delay to typing I've accidentally knocked out people twice because of the delay between deleting an emote I'm typing up, to type disengage.

And even with the 70% rule (I use 66% because I'm stubborn), I've seen a lot of near kills, and even one actual sparring death. It's not unlikely, happens all the time to elves and breeds. My personal rule has been to fight a low endurance char unarmed, or using only a shield.

Lol, why are people supporting mercy on rooms now, but didn't when I suggested it? Yeah, I don't like the mercy on room idea anymore because it makes intentional sparring accidents harder.

[UnderSeven]

There was a lot to read here, but I'm going to have to say I disagree with this.

The fact is people in this game are training with dangeruos weapons, often sticks, not padded, just straight up sticks.  Sticks are very lethal and in the hands of a dwarf, well even more so.  If you consider armageddon weapons in general, few are more than sticks anyway. Armor helps, but accidents can/do/should happen.  I think it's very realistic that you can die in training like this and a code manditory mercy or checking for mercy.. ect would actually make this less realistic.  You might argue that my character would never hit x or y character when they were down, but if you think about our hit point system, it is kind of already not very realistic.  One solid enough hit to the temple, or the neck with a wooden stick could probably kill you, but arm really doesn't support those types of one hit critical kill shots for good reason. 

In conclusion, I think the code is just fine as is.

[alicedavignon]

Armor helps, but accidents can/do/should happen ... You might argue that my character would never hit x or y character when they were down, but if you think about our hit point system, it is kind of already not very realistic. 

Look, I fully agree. Sure, if I sparred a HG and he scored a very hard hit on my head, it would only make sense that my character would fall down with barely any HP, at best. The important bit is that the HG, unless he is completely dumb or insane, wouldn't keep hitting my unmoving body afterwards, neither IC, nor would the OOC player would like to do that. This isn't an issue with the combat system in general, but a lacking feature in the MERCY ability.

What does does MERCY mean specifically? I instruct the system that my character doesn't want to kill his opponents. It is obvious that I would (almost) always want to have MERCY on when training, however players tend to forget or, sometimes, don't even know that this sort of thing exists, thus resulting in kills that are, to say the least, annoying for everybody without having any value to RP, i.e. "So one of our privates, Joe, died because his sparring partner, Doe, forgot to stop sticking those daggers into his eye-sockets after Joe was lying on the ground unconscious for about 10 minutes."

When the accidents you're talking about take place IRL, it's either because the blunt weapon broke during a lunge and the sharp broken off part went into somebodies stomach/chest (fencing), because someone hit someone else very hard from a wrong angle (boxing/kendo), etc. Nobody gets harmed during a training session because the other individual decided it would be a nifty idea to cut his opponents throat in while he is passed out. This shouldn't happen in ARM either.

To summarise, accidents are fine; synthetic accidents, resulting from the fact that the system didn't catch the obvious lack of player's killing intent, aren't.

[SMuz]

Well, generally, the more experienced the player is with the combat system, the less likely he is to do it. Lesson is - don't spar newbies, especially with a weak char

[alicedavignon]

Well, generally, the more experienced the player is with the combat system, the less likely he is to do it. Lesson is - don't spar newbies, especially with a weak char

Yes, but this is once again creating a 4th wall. The newbie characters should also have a at least a grain of common sense. Then again, I've seen quite a few people, who I'd consider experienced, forgetting to turn on their Mercy. This isn't the sort of thing that should penalise both players, because one of them got carried away or has a bad memory.

You could just as well argue that we should remove that "if you really want to go north and fall off the cliff, press <N now>". It's an OOC protection against something no IC character would do anyway.

[Riev]

Just because, once, I kept punching you in the face while your down, means nothing about mercy code! Maybe I just wanted to rough you up!


I definitely once, alt-tabbed while sparring UNARMED with someone. When I came back in (3s later) I was like "Hey cool, like three hits to.. the head.... wait a minute.... OH FUCK OH FUCK."

Moral of the story, don't spar with mercy off and alt-tab to watch youtube videos.

[alicedavignon]

Just because, once, I kept punching you in the face while your down, means nothing about mercy code! Maybe I just wanted to rough you up!

I was actually refering to another time when my character dropped from 85% to 5% when he passed out from a very hard mace hit on the head. Whole other story.

[Mechafish]

Just because, once, I kept punching you in the face while your down, means nothing about mercy code! Maybe I just wanted to rough you up!

I was actually refering to another time when my character dropped from 85% to 5% when he passed out from a very hard mace hit on the head. Whole other story.

Happeded to me too.

[SMuz]

Well, yeah, accidents happen. Like junking your shield, accidentally typing 'kick' instead of 'dump', hitting your mount, when trying to hit some other beetle, backstabbing a friend when trying to 'kill figure'. We can't have OOC alerts for all of them, it'll be annoying. As much as I sympathize, I don't want to see this one implemented. If you're really that worried about it type "OOC Make sure you type 'mercy on', please" before starting a fight. Better than having an auto alert every time.

[alicedavignon]

Well, yeah, accidents happen. Like junking your shield, accidentally typing 'kick' instead of 'dump', hitting your mount, when trying to hit some other beetle, backstabbing a friend when trying to 'kill figure'. We can't have OOC alerts for all of them, it'll be annoying. As much as I sympathize, I don't want to see this one implemented. If you're really that worried about it type "OOC Make sure you type 'mercy on', please" before starting a fight. Better than having an auto alert every time.

Frankly, I think that quite a few of those should be implemented as well (e.g. hitting your hitched mount instead of some other random beetle). Once you start killing your beetles, friends, etc. because the system doesn't differentiate between "a warbeetle" and your "a warbeetle", it is a rudimentary design flaw and should be fixed. It doesn't make the world appear harsher, realistic or whatever. Just plain annoying and stupidly breaking the immersion.

[Eloran]

Has too much time passed for people to have forgotten about Henna? 

Even with mercy on, she could kill someone in two shots.

Sometimes...shit happens.

[Agent_137]

Has too much time passed for people to have forgotten about Henna? 

Even with mercy on, she could kill someone in two shots.

Sometimes...shit happens.

no we havent. see my post earlier in the thread:

Many years ago, i was witness to this type of event. Trooper Henna killed Runner Raleth right before the eyes of his brother, Runner Rame (me.) Henna was a dwarf, using sparring clubs, with mercy ON. it was a one hit immediate kill through Raleth's helmet. He had over 80 health before the hit and was warrior class.

[Masterofthat]

Just a suggestion but maybe an option to have your mercy status in your prompt? Could be handy both for accidental sparring with mercy off and fighting properly with mercy on.

[Mechafish]

I think that could help having that status in your prompt...I agree with this.

[SMuz]

Just a suggestion but maybe an option to have your mercy status in your prompt? Could be handy both for accidental sparring with mercy off and fighting properly with mercy on.

I like that idea

[UnderSeven]

To summarise, accidents are fine; synthetic accidents, resulting from the fact that the system didn't catch the obvious lack of player's killing intent, aren't.

You say you find accidents undestandable and reasonable but then you go and suggest a system that would remove any accident from occuring.  Lets review.  Mercy flag means you will try not to kill anyone.  Forgetting to put the mercy flag on = an accident.  A code way to prevent someone from forgetting the flag or making training rooms auto accidents means it is virtually going to be impossible for an accident to happen.  Like an invisible hand of god sitting there that does nothing but stop people from unintentionally hurting one another.  So you're against accidents happening.  My problem is that isn't particularly realistic. 

You arguement seems to be that you wouldn't smash someone while they were down.  But I'm not convinced you've thought this through.  Sparring consists of trying to hit each other, find opening and exploit them,  You're not just swinging at each other's swords, you're swinging at each other.  I bring this up because you do, infact, hit people while they are down all the time in sparring.  You bash someone, and then you continue to try to hit them, disarm, ect.  SO how would a character who is looking for such an opening as you opponent falling (Cause I just established hitting down people is fair game) going to tell the difference between a moment of dazed ness due to having run out of stun vs a moment of dazed ness because they tripped up.  Honestly the fact that people don't fall in arm combat all the time because of just tripping and losing balance is more unrealistic.  The fact is your arguement hinges on that people wouldn't hit each other while they're down, but that's wrong, unless you specifically type disengage everytime your opponent falls (and some people probably do) then you infact do hit your opponent while they are down.

So in closing, the code is fine the way it is, training accidents happen and forgetting to turn the mercy flag on is, in my view, a prime example of an accident.

[UnderSeven]

Just a suggestion but maybe an option to have your mercy status in your prompt? Could be handy both for accidental sparring with mercy off and fighting properly with mercy on.

I think this is a fine suggestion too.

[Masterofthat]

But not putting the mercy flag on is not the same as accidentally hitting someone it is the same as forgetting you don't want to kill someone. I do fencing and not putting mercy on would be the same as me going to a match with the intention of driving my Foil straight through my opponents throat as opposed to say me accidentally hitting their throat. Accidents can still happen with mercy off, there are some examples earlier in this post and they are fairly realistic.

Also when you run out of stun you faint, getting woozy from a blow seems mainly up to players to emote 0 stun = lights out, only an idiot wouldn't realise someone just fainted, it's the difference between hitting someone on the ground who probably just whacked your shins or hitting someone who is lying there unmoving.

Finally I know when fencing at least you don't try to hit someone very hard, whilst someone sparring in zalanthas would be much rougher than during a sport on earth they still wouldn't be trying to hit someone too hard, if I lunge sure I'm trying to hit their body and do it fast but I'm not trying to do it hard I could lunge with enough force to put an unnibbed foil straight through them but why would I? It would just hurt them unnecessarily.

[UnderSeven]

Masterofthat:  This is why I agree with your putting a mercy in prompt.  But while I understand your point about mercy forgetting is an ooc mistake, couldn't it be the equivilant to icly forgetting to pull your blows?  I'm okay with making it easier to remember to use mercy, but against making it impossible to forget.  Mainly I Think that code solutions to the possibility to forgetting is ultimately less realistic than someone being careless in a sparing match, which could equate to the ooc carelessness of forgetting to check mercy.  Furthermore I don't really buy your fencing comparisons.  For one, fencing is a sport, it uses more protective gear in some ways and much lighter weapons.  It is designed to be a sport, it is not the same as sparring with intent to learn to kill people.  I would compare arm sparring more to how they might of done it in the middle ages or feudal japan.  Where they probably used much harder weapons and had a ton more accidents than ever occur in modern day fencing.  As to the daze thing, I use boxing and ultimate fighting as a cited example.  When people look momentarily dazed they usually get hammered until the ref stops it, in the case of boxing if they are still standing but probably knocked out, they might well get hit.  Unconscious doesn't mean physicially laying  on the ground IMO and those hits that kill people might be delivered while someone is stil actually on their feet, but beyond the point where they can defend themselves.

I still stand by my earlier statements.

[Synthesis]

Masterofthat:  This is why I agree with your putting a mercy in prompt.  But while I understand your point about mercy forgetting is an ooc mistake, couldn't it be the equivilant to icly forgetting to pull your blows?  I'm okay with making it easier to remember to use mercy, but against making it impossible to forget.  Mainly I Think that code solutions to the possibility to forgetting is ultimately less realistic than someone being careless in a sparing match, which could equate to the ooc carelessness of forgetting to check mercy.  Furthermore I don't really buy your fencing comparisons.  For one, fencing is a sport, it uses more protective gear in some ways and much lighter weapons.  It is designed to be a sport, it is not the same as sparring with intent to learn to kill people.  I would compare arm sparring more to how they might of done it in the middle ages or feudal japan.  Where they probably used much harder weapons and had a ton more accidents than ever occur in modern day fencing.  As to the daze thing, I use boxing and ultimate fighting as a cited example.  When people look momentarily dazed they usually get hammered until the ref stops it, in the case of boxing if they are still standing but probably knocked out, they might well get hit.  Unconscious doesn't mean physicially laying  on the ground IMO and those hits that kill people might be delivered while someone is stil actually on their feet, but beyond the point where they can defend themselves.

I still stand by my earlier statements.

In the UFC, people get hammered until the ref stops it because those are the rules:  if you stop voluntarily and the guy manages to recover, tough beans, you have to keep fighting...regardless of whether he really was unconscious for a moment or not.  Most fighters would probably prefer -not- to continue hammering downed opponents, because it becomes obviously pointless.  This is a rule because it is a COMPETITION:  you need a clear, undisputed winner, so the rules are written to guarantee that such a winner is produced.  Sparring matches are not such competitions.  I've rolled with half a dozen Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu black belts, and guess what:  not a single one of them even got close to breaking my arm or choking me to the point of unconsciousness, even though they all had the ability to do so at will.  It just doesn't happen, man.

In fact, in a recent fight between Matt Brown and Pete Sell, Brown actually yelled at the ref to stop the fight, because Sell was obviously out on his feet, stumbling around, and entirely unable to defend himself...but the ref wouldn't stop it because he was still technically upright.  Eventually, he punched him a couple more times, the ref stopped it, and Brown apologized to the crowd afterward for having been forced to do it.

Furthermore, your argument that forgetting OOCly to turn mercy on is equivalent to an IC mistake is complete bullshit:  it's like saying that people who type "k templar" instead of "l templar" actually made the IC mistake of running up and giving Lord Templar Hardnose a big ol' smooch.

With respect to protective gear:  most people who are sparring are wearing gear designed to protect them from REAL weapons.  They're wearing the regular armor they roll out with to fight gith, raiders, and mekillots.  Compared to the protective gear folks wear in competitive sports, this stuff is much heavier, and probably much more effective.  So this argument that people aren't wearing protective gear is complete bullshit.

Modern day, the art of kendo is probably most appicable to Byn-style sparring.  Google "kendo injuries," and what do you find?  The most common injuries are foot and ankle sprains, due to general human clumsiness.  PubMed returns two extremely unusual cases of people being injured in kendo sparring:  one had an aneurysm of the internal carotid artery that was caused by his neck protector being too tight (they made it clear that the cause was not blunt trauma to the area), and another with pneumomediastinum (air in the space between the lungs) caused by a blow to the trachea.  People aren't getting their motherfucking heads chopped off by accident with wooden kendo swords, despite the fact they're etwo'ing some very substantial wooden weapons and wearing a lot less protective gear than your average Bynner:



I'm not sure why you're so keen on continuing to allow people to be killed in sparring.  It's not realistic.  It is lame and annoying.

[Is Friday]

I've had/seen more than 5-6 characters purposefully murdered in the training area with training weapons.

I'm not sure how that contributes to the thread, but I think it does.

[Gagula]

I've had/seen more than 5-6 characters purposefully murdered in the training area with training weapons.

I'm not sure how that contributes to the thread, but I think it does.

Simply enough that when you want to kill someone intentionally that you can do so.....but personally I think that if I were going to "accidentally" kill you, I'd knock you down, and slit your throat with my skinning knife.

[Is Friday]

I just think that if you're going to hit somebody so hard that they get knocked out with a training weapon, the chances of breaking it should increase dramatically.

I don't think the break/strength ratio is very good right now.

[Synthesis]

I've had/seen more than 5-6 characters purposefully murdered in the training area with training weapons.

I'm not sure how that contributes to the thread, but I think it does.

I think this shit should be stopped.

If you're going to kill someone, you should have to do it blatantly, by pulling out a real sword and slicing them up.

None of this "oh, it was a sparring accident. Whoops. lol" crap.  Intentionally killing someone (OOCly) and trying to pass it off as a "sparring accident" (ICly) is garbage.  It's equivalent to any other sort of metagaming twinkery bullshit.

I've personally only had one character die in sparring:  to a newb who had "kick" queued back before the "stop" and "disengage" commands were added, so it was understandable.

I have two general thoughts on the issue:

1.  With all the tools we now have available to prevent sparring accidents, killing someone in training should be just as inexcusable ICly as it is OOCly.  If I were in a leadership position and someone killed one of my recruits in sparring, I would treat it as a murder, with very few exceptions.

2.  We should have more tools available to prevent this from happening.  Strong dwarves should not be sparring murder machines.  Neither should half-giants or muls.  There's no reason why someone should have to attack a mul or half-giant and wait for the half-giant's player to type 'disengage,' all the while praying he doesn't land a kill-shot.  The half-giant should never even attack in the first place, if his only goal is to defend himself during the match.  Sparring weapons should probably have hard caps (15-20 hp max) on the amount of damage they can inflict, even on an unconscious person, when wielded by a mul, for playability's sake.

[AmandaGreathouse]

We should have more tools available to prevent this from happening.  Strong dwarves should not be sparring murder machines.  Neither should half-giants or muls.  There's no reason why someone should have to attack a mul or half-giant and wait for the half-giant's player to type 'disengage,' all the while praying he doesn't land a kill-shot.  The half-giant should never even attack in the first place, if his only goal is to defend himself during the match.  Sparring weapons should probably have hard caps (15-20 hp max) on the amount of damage they can inflict, even on an unconscious person, when wielded by a mul, for playability's sake.

I don't generally spar IG, ever, and there's a reason for it. That reason is the entirety of Synthesis' last post. Very, -very- nicely put.

[rishenko]

It would be great if we could "pull punches" while sparring.  You set your max amount of hp loss to be given or some such and it hovers near that amount. 

In nearly all martial arts, one of the most important things anybody learns at the beginning is control.  Control over your temper, over your strikes, over the amount of force and speed with which you attack.  That way, as you progress and move into the higher belts/ranks/whatever, you are able to perform the more complex, harmful moves in such a way as to not destroy your sparring partner.  It also keeps people from getting hit as hard, becoming psycho pissed, and lashing out in full at their competitor.

Arm is the exact opposite.  There is no control, there is no care given to fighting somebody who is far less than your ability, there is nothing about teaching and working with them.  There is only a full-on, no holds-barred attempt to fucking pulverize them into a bloody mess as fast as stumpily possible.

Code Select Expand


The short, lanky man purses his lips as he lifts the sword and looks it over with a considering squint.

Holding the quivering blade with a gaze that shows an infinite amount of nervousness, the short, lanky
man says to the hulking, wide-eyed dwarf, in sirihish,
     "Alright... This end up?  Okay, we're good.  Sarge, I'm ready!"

Raising his own wooden axe high above his head with a bellowing roar, the hulking, wide-eyed dwarf
exclaims at the short, lanky man, in sirihish,
     "RAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAPE!"

The hulking, wide-eyed dwarf attacks the short, lanky man.
The hulking, wide-eyed dwarf chops the short, lanky man's head for unspeakable damage.


[UnderSeven]

Masterofthat:  This is why I agree with your putting a mercy in prompt.  But while I understand your point about mercy forgetting is an ooc mistake, couldn't it be the equivilant to icly forgetting to pull your blows?  I'm okay with making it easier to remember to use mercy, but against making it impossible to forget.  Mainly I Think that code solutions to the possibility to forgetting is ultimately less realistic than someone being careless in a sparing match, which could equate to the ooc carelessness of forgetting to check mercy.  Furthermore I don't really buy your fencing comparisons.  For one, fencing is a sport, it uses more protective gear in some ways and much lighter weapons.  It is designed to be a sport, it is not the same as sparring with intent to learn to kill people.  I would compare arm sparring more to how they might of done it in the middle ages or feudal japan.  Where they probably used much harder weapons and had a ton more accidents than ever occur in modern day fencing.  As to the daze thing, I use boxing and ultimate fighting as a cited example.  When people look momentarily dazed they usually get hammered until the ref stops it, in the case of boxing if they are still standing but probably knocked out, they might well get hit.  Unconscious doesn't mean physicially laying  on the ground IMO and those hits that kill people might be delivered while someone is stil actually on their feet, but beyond the point where they can defend themselves.

I still stand by my earlier statements.

In the UFC, people get hammered until the ref stops it because those are the rules:  if you stop voluntarily and the guy manages to recover, tough beans, you have to keep fighting...regardless of whether he really was unconscious for a moment or not.  Most fighters would probably prefer -not- to continue hammering downed opponents, because it becomes obviously pointless.  This is a rule because it is a COMPETITION:  you need a clear, undisputed winner, so the rules are written to guarantee that such a winner is produced.  Sparring matches are not such competitions.  I've rolled with half a dozen Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu black belts, and guess what:  not a single one of them even got close to breaking my arm or choking me to the point of unconsciousness, even though they all had the ability to do so at will.  It just doesn't happen, man.

In fact, in a recent fight between Matt Brown and Pete Sell, Brown actually yelled at the ref to stop the fight, because Sell was obviously out on his feet, stumbling around, and entirely unable to defend himself...but the ref wouldn't stop it because he was still technically upright.  Eventually, he punched him a couple more times, the ref stopped it, and Brown apologized to the crowd afterward for having been forced to do it.

Furthermore, your argument that forgetting OOCly to turn mercy on is equivalent to an IC mistake is complete bullshit:  it's like saying that people who type "k templar" instead of "l templar" actually made the IC mistake of running up and giving Lord Templar Hardnose a big ol' smooch.

With respect to protective gear:  most people who are sparring are wearing gear designed to protect them from REAL weapons.  They're wearing the regular armor they roll out with to fight gith, raiders, and mekillots.  Compared to the protective gear folks wear in competitive sports, this stuff is much heavier, and probably much more effective.  So this argument that people aren't wearing protective gear is complete bullshit.

Modern day, the art of kendo is probably most appicable to Byn-style sparring.  Google "kendo injuries," and what do you find?  The most common injuries are foot and ankle sprains, due to general human clumsiness.  PubMed returns two extremely unusual cases of people being injured in kendo sparring:  one had an aneurysm of the internal carotid artery that was caused by his neck protector being too tight (they made it clear that the cause was not blunt trauma to the area), and another with pneumomediastinum (air in the space between the lungs) caused by a blow to the trachea.  People aren't getting their motherfucking heads chopped off by accident with wooden kendo swords, despite the fact they're etwo'ing some very substantial wooden weapons and wearing a lot less protective gear than your average Bynner:



I'm not sure why you're so keen on continuing to allow people to be killed in sparring.  It's not realistic.  It is lame and annoying.

I'll grant you the UFC arguement, frankly I just don't have enough background in it, but kendo I do.  Those weapons are made out of high flexible bamboo and hollow, unlike the solid wooden sticks they use for their katas.  Why don't they use the solid wooden things? Because you could kill someone that way, but what do they use in arm?  Solid training weapons, check out the descs.  Dulled edges maybe, but they are solid, they are hard, they could kill.  Another thing about kendo is you know exactly where your opponent will strike.  You have the top of the head, the neck, the body and the wrist.  Any other strike wouldn't be counted as a hit and therefore no one is going to purposefully aim for them.  You can't possibly compare such a stylized form of sports to armageddon.

Your arguement that forgetting to put mercy on is the same as k templar instead of look templar is apples and oranges.  One is a typo, the other is carelessness.  Ultimately all actions come from the player. If the player forgets to pack his water do was say it was ooc because the character wouldn't of forgotten to do that?  No.  This is not a matter of one key being close to the other and one command later splat, this is a matter of carelessness.  As I've stated I'd be all about making it easier to be less careless, but as I've also stated before the part I'm against is making it blatantly impossible to be careless in this nature.

As to the arguement about about the protective gear, true, it is for protecting against real weapons, but if you look at the real weapons in arm, they're not that much lighter than the stuff people train with.  People train with nasty weapons in arm, they're solid, they are typically hard.  Many organizations prefer the harder stuff so they don't break and so on.  

I will close with this. I've played arm a long time and been in many orgnizations that spar.  I have seen many sparing accidents but never once been on either side of the sparring accidents.  Never has my char died or killed a char during sparring.  They've passed out, they have gotten hit below regen but that was it.  Careful sparring, such as not matching up with people whose sheer brute force could kill you, paying close attention to the harm you are doing to yourself and your opponent and being REALISTIC about your own health during sparring should result in never getting a single accident.  Even without the use of mercy the aformentioned strategies have never failed me.  If you get knocked out and your opponent doesn't have mercy they'll get one free swing at you and then they will stop, you have to type kill again to keep trying after someone is downed.  It isn't like the combat code forces you to wail on someone until they die.  

I agree that having mercy a prompt option would be nice, but frankly I will continue to stand firm, the code is not broken here.  If anything this is ic.  Are the weapons too hard? Ask for softer ones.  Are people getting knocked out a lot?  Tell them to pay attention to stun, or for god sakes don't spar half giants if you'r not one yourself.  Are you not quitting spar until you are right around the regen limit?  you should consider that not regenning hp represents a serious injury that requires medical attention, sure you can sleep it off codically but my point is I am not in the least convinced that a vast majority of these training accidents are not the fault of the pcs involved.

If I missed any of your points Synthesis I'll gladly try and get them if you point them out, but I am in favor of a mercy in prompt option.

[UnderSeven]

Another thing Synth, I would prefer if you didn't call people's arguements bullshit, that's escalating this farther than any discussion on the GDB need go.

[UnderSeven]

2.  We should have more tools available to prevent this from happening.  Strong dwarves should not be sparring murder machines.  Neither should half-giants or muls.  There's no reason why someone should have to attack a mul or half-giant and wait for the half-giant's player to type 'disengage,' all the while praying he doesn't land a kill-shot.  The half-giant should never even attack in the first place, if his only goal is to defend himself during the match.  Sparring weapons should probably have hard caps (15-20 hp max) on the amount of damage they can inflict, even on an unconscious person, when wielded by a mul, for playability's sake.

I don't see why this can't be handled ic by people demanding softer weapons.

[Fathi]

2.  We should have more tools available to prevent this from happening.  Strong dwarves should not be sparring murder machines.  Neither should half-giants or muls.  There's no reason why someone should have to attack a mul or half-giant and wait for the half-giant's player to type 'disengage,' all the while praying he doesn't land a kill-shot.  The half-giant should never even attack in the first place, if his only goal is to defend himself during the match.  Sparring weapons should probably have hard caps (15-20 hp max) on the amount of damage they can inflict, even on an unconscious person, when wielded by a mul, for playability's sake.

I don't see why this can't be handled ic by people demanding softer weapons.

If you want this to happen under the game's current policies, you would have to:

1. Contact your friendly neighbourhood Salarri.
2. Place an order that will be at least 2000+ coins, probably more.
3. Wait for said Salarri to hire and train a master crafter in the weaponskill type of the training weapon you want.
4. Wait however long it takes to actually get the item made.

... All that coin, time, and effort in order to get a hollow wooden stick that won't accidentally kill your buddies.

Not to mention that when you request a mastercrafted item, you aren't allowed to stipulate anything about the OOC nature of its construction. You would just have to hope that Salarr's imms understand what you're going for and that the PC agent and PC crafter cater well enough to your requests.

Not that I'm sure you don't already know this. Most people do, it's been the game's policy for years.

But you wanted to know why people wouldn't try to fix this ICly, and that's why. The barriers are entirely OOC as they exist due to the OOC nature of the mastercrafting policy. Sure, said policy possibly isn't an issue if there's an imm around who thinks the pursuit is worthy and has the spare time, but you can't always bet on somebody being willing to break the rules for you.

[UnderSeven]

2.  We should have more tools available to prevent this from happening.  Strong dwarves should not be sparring murder machines.  Neither should half-giants or muls.  There's no reason why someone should have to attack a mul or half-giant and wait for the half-giant's player to type 'disengage,' all the while praying he doesn't land a kill-shot.  The half-giant should never even attack in the first place, if his only goal is to defend himself during the match.  Sparring weapons should probably have hard caps (15-20 hp max) on the amount of damage they can inflict, even on an unconscious person, when wielded by a mul, for playability's sake.

I don't see why this can't be handled ic by people demanding softer weapons.

If you want this to happen under the game's current policies, you would have to:

1. Contact your friendly neighbourhood Salarri.
2. Place an order that will be at least 2000+ coins, probably more.
3. Wait for said Salarri to hire and train a master crafter in the weaponskill type of the training weapon you want.
4. Wait however long it takes to actually get the item made.

... All that coin, time, and effort in order to get a hollow wooden stick that won't accidentally kill your buddies.

Not to mention that when you request a mastercrafted item, you aren't allowed to stipulate anything about the OOC nature of its construction. You would just have to hope that Salarr's imms understand what you're going for and that the PC agent and PC crafter cater well enough to your requests.

Not that I'm sure you don't already know this. Most people do, it's been the game's policy for years.

But you wanted to know why people wouldn't try to fix this ICly, and that's why. The barriers are entirely OOC as they exist due to the OOC nature of the mastercrafting policy. Sure, said policy possibly isn't an issue if there's an imm around who thinks the pursuit is worthy and has the spare time, but you can't always bet on somebody being willing to break the rules for you.

Without going into if I agree with you or not, I don't see how the ic method of handling it I suggested then is any different than the ooc methods of handling it.  Either way you need staff member support to have it done, either via them agreeing to create and instatute new code, or them agreeing to make the practice weapons with the desired numbers.  Personally I believe the weapons with the proper desired numbers are more likely to see if the intent behind the weapon is made abudantly clear.

[Fathi]

2.  We should have more tools available to prevent this from happening.  Strong dwarves should not be sparring murder machines.  Neither should half-giants or muls.  There's no reason why someone should have to attack a mul or half-giant and wait for the half-giant's player to type 'disengage,' all the while praying he doesn't land a kill-shot.  The half-giant should never even attack in the first place, if his only goal is to defend himself during the match.  Sparring weapons should probably have hard caps (15-20 hp max) on the amount of damage they can inflict, even on an unconscious person, when wielded by a mul, for playability's sake.

I don't see why this can't be handled ic by people demanding softer weapons.

If you want this to happen under the game's current policies, you would have to:

1. Contact your friendly neighbourhood Salarri.
2. Place an order that will be at least 2000+ coins, probably more.
3. Wait for said Salarri to hire and train a master crafter in the weaponskill type of the training weapon you want.
4. Wait however long it takes to actually get the item made.

... All that coin, time, and effort in order to get a hollow wooden stick that won't accidentally kill your buddies.

Not to mention that when you request a mastercrafted item, you aren't allowed to stipulate anything about the OOC nature of its construction. You would just have to hope that Salarr's imms understand what you're going for and that the PC agent and PC crafter cater well enough to your requests.

Not that I'm sure you don't already know this. Most people do, it's been the game's policy for years.

But you wanted to know why people wouldn't try to fix this ICly, and that's why. The barriers are entirely OOC as they exist due to the OOC nature of the mastercrafting policy. Sure, said policy possibly isn't an issue if there's an imm around who thinks the pursuit is worthy and has the spare time, but you can't always bet on somebody being willing to break the rules for you.

Without going into if I agree with you or not, I don't see how the ic method of handling it I suggested then is any different than the ooc methods of handling it.  Either way you need staff member support to have it done, either via them agreeing to create and instatute new code, or them agreeing to make the practice weapons with the desired numbers. 

Nah, it isn't different at all, you're right there. You just mentioned that you didn't understand why people weren't trying to handle it IC, and I pointed out my opinion on why I think that is: there's just as many OOC hurdles to jump over. If there's going to be a lot of OOC barriers to getting it done whether you handle the issue ICly or OOCly, I think a lot of people would prefer to just handle it OOCly because it is, in their eyes, an OOC problem.

[SMuz]

I've always assumed that Zalanthans never figured out the proper technique to pull back weapons in combat so they just slam it in all the way for the sake of practice

But so far, most sparring accidents I've ever seen was due to clubs. Rarely seen one from other weapons. That makes perfect sense though, a sparring club is a big, heavy stick that would have to function much like a real club. Like real clubs, it's also made of bone. Bone swords and spears are also not too far away from real ones, though I think a blunted spear IC is a bit more powerful than it should be. I think wrapping a bit of soft leather around the edge of a weapon is all you need for a softer weapon, though.

[Riev]

I've come awfully close before, without clubs. But in fairness, its because I was already at about 65% health, and some Sergeant or above had ridiculous strength, and got a lucky shot to the head or the neck, dealing a wounding damage to bring me at like 30hp.


That stuff, is fun to RP. When an HG or a Mul double-tap you (meaning one hit knockout, next hit death) the RP experience is....waning.


The secret? Do. Not. Spar. HGs. And. Muls. If you feel like you must, tell them they are not allowed to use a weapon. Muls are slaves, and have to listen, and HGs are kids, and probably will do it anyways

[alicedavignon]

I agree that having mercy a prompt option would be nice, but frankly I will continue to stand firm, the code is not broken here.  If anything this is ic.  Are the weapons too hard?

Once again, I would have to disagree. Whether the weapons hit too hard, the armour deflects too little damage or you disagree with the current combat system is the a completely different story. This isn't what this is about. What I'm saying is that characters should have basic common sense and not literary cut their opponents throat when they fall unconscious. If you disagree with this idea, would you also support the removal of the Shield Wall "n now" command? Essentially, this is the same sort of thing. Getting finished off in a spar is not realistic.

[UnderSeven]

Alicedragon,

I would ask what you think the difference is between having it display in prompt is different.  When it's in your face like that it would take a collosal level of carelessness to forget about mercy when it is staring you in the face.  I think if that code option was given to people and they still failed to have mercy set then I would equate that to someone who wasn't pulling their shots or not aiming for eyes.. ect.

But I think we might just might have to agree to disagree.

[Ampere]

Alicedragon,

I would ask what you think the difference is between having it display in prompt is different.  When it's in your face like that it would take a collosal level of carelessness to forget about mercy when it is staring you in the face.  I think if that code option was given to people and they still failed to have mercy set then I would equate that to someone who wasn't pulling their shots or not aiming for eyes.. ect.

But I think we might just might have to agree to disagree.

I think you'll have to make that agreement with alot of people. I don't see another seven characters (spaces not included) added onto my prompt as an actual solution, sparring accidents are unrealistic.  That is the problem.  Mercy has it's place, when I want to torture someone. Something entirely different than the current system would be ideal.  Like a 'nil' for smackdown. I'm not a coder, and I don't even see this as a priority, but what we have here is an OOC problem, not an IC oversight.

Oh, and D'avignon is a frog surname.

[alicedavignon]

Alicedragon,

I would ask what you think the difference is between having it display in prompt is different.  When it's in your face like that it would take a collosal level of carelessness to forget about mercy when it is staring you in the face.  I think if that code option was given to people and they still failed to have mercy set then I would equate that to someone who wasn't pulling their shots or not aiming for eyes.. ect.

But I think we might just might have to agree to disagree.

There are a couple of problems with the prompt idea:

• As M. Ampere already stated, it takes away precious space when you only really need it within the training rooms
• It doesn't solve the problem for the people who have it off or, to a lesser degree, newer characters
• I, for one, overlook the infos on my prompt all the time

It's not a priority, but, as I've said before, I would be in favour of a "kill X now"/auto-mercy command for training rooms.

[Agent_137]

i hate to repost my idea, but what's so bad about "automatically alerting the player who doesn't have mercy on when they enter a training room"?

[SMuz]

i hate to repost my idea, but what's so bad about "automatically alerting the player who doesn't have mercy on when they enter a training room"?

Hate to repost my answer, but it's OOC jarring. Not a bad idea if it's a setting, though, i.e. you can turn off the notification.

[Agent_137]

i hate to repost my idea, but what's so bad about "automatically alerting the player who doesn't have mercy on when they enter a training room"?

Hate to repost my answer, but it's OOC jarring. Not a bad idea if it's a setting, though, i.e. you can turn off the notification.

as jarring as silently enabling your Mercy On and somehow telling you that you have to type Kill again to really kill? Or asking you to put it in your prompt where you have to look at it all the time or remember to turn it on? (if you can remember that, you can remember to just enable mercy.)

How is it any more jarring that typing STAT? Do you ever type STAT while playing? How is it more jarring than the notification when you leave the gates that your char is being saved?

[SMuz]

Good point. I was imagining something among the lines of
*BEEP* Your mercy is not on. Please turn mercy on unless you are planning a sparring accident.

[LoD]

Good point. I was imagining something among the lines of
*BEEP* Your mercy is not on. Please turn mercy on unless you are planning a sparring accident.

Code Select Expand

Outer Yard [EW]

>west

You walk west.

Mercy On.
Training Yard [EW]
The tall, muscular man is here, stretching out.

It's treating a symptom more than the disease, but I wouldn't find it jarring.

-LoD

[alicedavignon]

i hate to repost my idea, but what's so bad about "automatically alerting the player who doesn't have mercy on when they enter a training room"?

Hate to repost my answer, but it's OOC jarring. Not a bad idea if it's a setting, though, i.e. you can turn off the notification.

as jarring as silently enabling your Mercy On and somehow telling you that you have to type Kill again to really kill?...

I'd prefer your idea to nothing it all, but I think it's a little more jaring than the "kill X now" command. Honest question: How often did you need to kill someone within the training ring? If it was for me I'd make it an automatic, silent "mercy on" on entry and restore to previous status on exit.

Don't get me wrong, it's much MUCH better than what we have now.