Cooking, the rocket science of Zalanthas

[BadSkeelz]

"hold" the grills

wut

I thought you just needed one in the room?

[RogueGunslinger]

Me too, lol.

[Delirium]

"hold" the grills

wut

I thought you just needed one in the room?

You would think. But do the math. It's a "tool" object. Tools have to be held. Unless you're crafting *with* the tool, then it doesn't have to be held.

So....

Yeah. You gotta hold 'em.

[wizturbo]

Yeah. You gotta hold 'em.

I don't think that's true anymore.  I think you just need to have the item in the room now, and that goes with all tools.  http://gdb.armageddon.org/index.php/topic,48231.0.html

It searches your inventory, and then the room, for an appropriate tool...so i interpret that as if there's a tool lying around in the room you'll end up using it.

[Talia]

I don't think that's true anymore.  I think you just need to have the item in the room now, and that goes with all tools.  Trying to look up the announcement on this...was within the last 6 months I think.

I am not a code expert, but I think Delirium is correct for getting the skill bonuses that tools give. Tools can be in your inventory or in the room if they are required for the craft, though. But then you don't get the bonus (I think). Holding the tool would both give you the bonus AND fulfill any tool requirements for the recipe.

Some rooms also give bonuses, as noted. Again...if there's a room that has a grill or other cooking feature but it doesn't seem to give a bonus, that's probably a good thing to discuss with relevant clan staff.

[wizturbo]

Oh, bummer!  And here I thought we could have a workshop of tools, and we wouldn't have to figure out whether an auger or a hammer was the tool that'd give a coded benefit or not.

[Talia]

Oh, bummer!  And here I thought we could have a workshop of tools, and we wouldn't have to figure out whether an auger or a hammer was the tool that'd give a coded benefit or not.

Tools should tell you what type they are when you assess them. You probably knew that already, though, and were just kidding around. Most of the time, tools are fairly intuitive and logical, though sometimes...anyway, for cooking they should be pretty obvious!

[Jihelu]

Oh, bummer!  And here I thought we could have a workshop of tools, and we wouldn't have to figure out whether an auger or a hammer was the tool that'd give a coded benefit or not.

Tools should tell you what type they are when you assess them. You probably knew that already, though, and were just kidding around. Most of the time, tools are fairly intuitive and logical, though sometimes...anyway, for cooking they should be pretty obvious!

So my two handed sword helps with cooking right?

[RogueGunslinger]

My experience with tools is like this: assess sandpaper > This sandpaper might be used for sanding things. assess auger > This auger might be used for drilling holes.

Huh, I don't have the sanding and drilling holes skills, bummer.... 


But then I'm like, SO MANY crafts need sanded and holes, so whatever, I'll just pretend it's useful.

[wizturbo]

Tools should tell you what type they are when you assess them. You probably knew that already, though, and were just kidding around. Most of the time, tools are fairly intuitive and logical, though sometimes...anyway, for cooking they should be pretty obvious!

Yeah, I was mostly just being lazy and wanting to walk into my "craft room" with all my tools laid out so I wouldn't have to pick up a bunch of things and assess them to remember what does what.  Cooking is pretty straightforward though

[valeria]

Tools in the room add bonuses these days.

[Talia]

Tools in the room add bonuses these days.

many pairs of etched bone scissors are here, piled up in the biggest kankfucking pile ever, despite the fact that no one actually needs this many scissors

Do you know if they add bonuses when they are just in inventory but not being held? I would assume so since it's the same code. Good to know!

[Synthesis]

Tools in the room add bonuses these days.

Either that's not true, or someone needs to update the help files:

Notes:
   In most cases, in order to take advantage of any coded benefit, you
must be either holding or wielding that tool.  The exceptions to this
are looms and spindles, which must be used in the crafting recipe itself.

[The Silence of the Erdlus]

Going from an advanced/master cook to a novice cook on a brand new character is a bitch. Good thing I enjoy the grind.

[valeria]

Tools in the room add bonuses these days.

Either that's not true, or someone needs to update the help files:

Notes:
   In most cases, in order to take advantage of any coded benefit, you
must be either holding or wielding that tool.  The exceptions to this
are looms and spindles, which must be used in the crafting recipe itself.

It's entirely possible that I'm confused.  Maybe it's just that certain rooms just by their nature give bonuses to crafting.  There was a bow-crafting thing in a certain room when I was playing a merchant that definitely pumped my skills up, though.  I thought it was because of that specific tool, but maybe it was a room-related thing.

[The Silence of the Erdlus]

All but 5% of you pick the meat up off the grill and drop it in the dust like retards

[aeglaeca]

Recipes requiring a skill level above yours may be accessible if you're holding the correct tools for the job. They aren't if said tools are in your inventory and not held. I guess that'd be one way to check easily?

[hyzhenhok]

The argument I would make is cooking is so easy to fail at that it makes skilling it up trivial. Anyone with access to a stockpile of meat (so basically anyone in a hunting clan, or anyone with income to afford buying 'groceries') can easily max it out with a bit of patience.

[Synthesis]

The argument I would make is cooking is so easy to fail at that it makes skilling it up trivial. Anyone with access to a stockpile of meat (so basically anyone in a hunting clan, or anyone with income to afford buying 'groceries') can easily max it out with a bit of patience.

The guild skillcaps on the cooking skill are so low that you will continue to fail even when you're maxed out.

[RogueGunslinger]

And "max" it, and for those who get to to journeyman levels, it's pretty annoying to still be burning scrab steaks. The argument also doesn't account for the unrealistic failure rates and messages in general.


Damn, I dropped another fruit in the dirt trying to slice it. Silly me. Guess I wont just pick it up and wipe the dirt off when I'm surrounded by starving, dehydrated people.

[hyzhenhok]

You continue burning scrab steaks and other chunks of meat right up until you are able to mastercraft edibles.

[Synthesis]

You continue burning scrab steaks and other chunks of meat right up until you are able to mastercraft edibles.

Yes, we know what the deal is.

We're saying that shouldn't be the deal.

[hyzhenhok]

You continue burning scrab steaks and other chunks of meat right up until you are able to mastercraft edibles.

Yes, we know what the deal is.

We're saying that shouldn't be the deal.

I thought that's what I said, too. I'm confused why we're arguing.

[RogueGunslinger]

You seemed to be arguing that it's okay for it to be that way, because it's so easy to skill up.

[Nyr]

From what I have looked over, tools usually have to be held/worn/used, though there are exceptions.  You may be thinking of the fact that you can craft with things in the room with you (FYI, half-giants with abysmal agility).  That doesn't mean you get the bonuses of all of the tools in the room.  Some rooms provide bonuses because they have tools in them virtually (or non-virtually).

We do not have a skill system such that once you are a master at crafting things, you stop failing at crafting simpler things.  What's happening when your master chef burns a scrab steak?  Think of it like D&D.  You roll for skill usage.  Even minimum level difficulty stuff HAS a difficulty, and if you roll below that, you failed.  Now, you might say to yourself, "so I screwed this up just as badly as some bloke with that minimum level of skill that failed?"  Yes, that is what is being piped back to you from the game.  Note that failure is absolute.  We can either "give nothing" on failure (this makes sense on many crafts) or "give something" on failure (this makes sense on other crafts).  There is not a gradient of possible outcomes.  Providing a gradient likely would mean a complete reworking of all crafting code (unlikely in the extreme--you saw what we were expecting to do with that for Reborn, and that was based in a wholly different engine). 

The other possibility would be allowing a gradient if desired (meaning it is an optional change that can be made for individual crafting recipes), but that still requires code change and testing.  Assuming the code changes (however difficult they might be) would get done, it then requires more building work on the back-end to give more of a gradient for certain crafts.  This isn't something that is on the agenda at this time, and I wouldn't hold your breath for that one. 

We also do not have a project for providing better failures for cooked stuff, but that could probably be reviewed as something to do after the taste message stuff is finished.