A Critique

[helix]

Stuff

LoD - I wanted to respond to you last night, but I was too tired.

I do think steps are being taken. I do believe that the staff are aware of the problem and are working to sort it out. I do believe that the recent change to staffing, in reference to how clans are handled, will alleviate many of my concerns. Even more - I do believe that Arm2 will drastically change things.

My purpose for posting was not to complain, but only to add my voice to the concensus - these were my issues. I think that this topic can be talked about in a lot more civil and thought-provoking tone than some other people have done, and maybe that's a discussion that we need to have as a group. I wish I had been able to make the P/S meeting to bring this up there, but unfortunately, I could not. There's been a lot of talk about player retention lately, apparently - these are only my reasons for not being retained, nothing more.

[FantasyWriter]

Point is, they do it for the sake of everyone. Not for you alone. And if you're the one who's been tantruming around the house yelling at how unfair they've been to you, you should just take a step back and remember that they have other people to take care of. You are just one of hundreds of other players and the staff would be spending an unrealistic amount of time trying to cater to the whims of one or two powergamers.

Good point, I withdraw my previous statement.

[Pale Horse]

I normally try to stay out of threads where heated and strong opinions are expressed (confrontation is learned behavior for me, and it takes a conscious effort to put myself into what might even seem like the line of fire), but I would like to voice my own thanks and appreciation for Vanth's post.  It's a breath of fresh air to see someone on staff defending their position and decisions, as well as taking the time to explain their thought processes and actions.

Diplomacy and tact are wonderful things, they allow many of different biases, opinions and backgrounds to work together with a minimum of bickering, but as I've had to learn myself, confrontation isn't necessarily a bad thing and is actually needed when things just become too much, wherever that point may be.

If anything, this thread and it's responses help highlight just how stressed things are becoming, both for players and for Staff.  Bad?  Maybe.  Good?  Maybe.  I'm of the opinion that, good or bad, stress is like excitement and fear:  same physical phenomenon, and the difference is how one takes and views it.

[staggerlee]

I'd really like to see a coherent mission statement from the staff.  I think it'd clear up a lot of misunderstandings and help ensure that staff and players were working toward a common goal.

I think that a lot of the conflict regarding Arm revolves around misunderstandings and poor communication.

Ask, and ye shall receive:

Mission Statement:
***********************

    Preliminaries:

    Armageddon is not a company or corporation; Armageddon is a hobby. It's the equivalent of having a huge train set in our collective basement, and obsessively going down to tinker with it. We want everyone to enjoy being on staff, to feel that they're doing things purely because they want to, and in fact the primary reward anyone should expect for donating their time to a hobby is the enjoyment of the time spent.

    The one responsibility that everyone on staff has, and the thing you implicitly agree to when becoming a staff member, is to be an active member of the staff community. This means you should keep up to date on what is happening, in the form of reading the IDB and GDB on a regular basis, and provide information to others in the form of feedback on what they're doing, as well as sharing what you're up to. People who are not a part of the community are not contributing. If you don't enjoy being a part of the staff community on Armageddon, then you probably aren't going to be in charge of much.

    That said, we'd like to outline what we feel is most important to the game, because as Overlords, we think it's vital that our vision for the mud be clearly communicated. Armageddon has evolved and changed over the ten some years that it's been in existence, and it will continue to evolve, change and (hopefully) grow.

***********************

    Accountability:

    Accountability comes in three flavors: accountability to the game, to the players and to the other members of the staff. Here's how we see each:

    Accountability to the game: To keep working towards the goals of game stability, playability and consistency.

        * Building: Making items and NPCs that are consistent with the current guidelines.
        * Building: Keeping abreast of changes and events on the game.
        * Building: Taking charge of typos and ideas, fixing and verifying them and then making sure they get cleared out of the file once they've been verified/approved.
        * Coding: Not leaving code half-baked or unfinished.
        * Coding: Making sure code is balanced and consistent with the current documentation.
        * Coding: Spending time on code that will maximize people's enjoyment of the game, rather than focusing on code that is so specialized or complicated that it may never get used.
        * Coding: Taking charge of bugs and making sure that they are fixed, tested, and removed from the bugs file when resolved.
        * Staff: When posting on the Net, in the form of IDB postings, GDB, or the Armageddon webpage, or emailing players, to refrain from flamebait, statements which cast a bad light on the game, or insulting other MUDs.
        * Plots: Running plots that are consistent with current guidelines, which incorporate existing events, and which don't collide with things already existing on the game.

    Accountability to the players: Treating players fairly and consistently.

        * Building: Keeping your clans informed as to IC/OOC events, and making sure you check bugs/ideas/typos on a regular basis to fix things that affect them. If you have to take RL leave, make sure your areas are covered so the players aren't left in the lurch.
        * Coding: Testing changes thoroughly to make sure they don't crash us, and posting what's been done in case not everything was tested sufficiently so the crash bug can be fixed
        * Coding: Making sure command syntax is (fairly) intuitive and more importantly, that command syntax is consistent
        * Coding: Making sure new features are sufficiently documented in the form of helpfiles, as well as included in news, the MOTD and/or the GDB.
        * Documentation: Answering questions on the GDB, wishes, account mails, mails to clan immortals both informatively, politely, and in a timely way.
        * Plots: Running plots which are consistent with current documentation. Finishing plots completely, and not scheduling events for players and then failing to show.
        * Plots: Treating players fairly. This is not to say do away with the karma system, but hand out karma or perks to players who have earned them. Not because they're a pal in real life, or bought you beer.
        * Plots: If a player dies or is harmed as a result of your actions, emailing the account with a report on what happened, so if the player emails the account about it, their letter can be answered.
        * Staff: To be consistent in how things are done. For example: Setting out guidelines for approving/rejecting apps, and letting the players know what those guidelines are.

    Accountability to Staff: Respecting the efforts and time of the other staff members.

        * Building: Not interfering in another person's area of responsibility or doing something that will have a major impact on them without checking/letting them know ahead of time.
        * Coding: Airing major changes on the IDB ahead of time, and asking for input. Not making a major change without some consensus on the part of the upper staff.
        * Coding: Documenting changes thoroughly and letting people know what's new so they can incorporate it in their plots and building. Coding things that are useful to other staff members, and making sure there are no bugs in the code which create problems for people running plots or building.
        * Plots: Keeping each other informed of plots, events and other information they might need.
        * Staff: Treating each other fairly and consistently, trying to work out problems directly, or, in the case of Storytellers and Highlords, through someone higher up, should the problem not be directly resolvable. Not engaging in backbiting, or discussing other staff members with players.
        * Staff: Letting the rest of the team know when you will be absent, particularly when there are plotlines or projects that are dependent on you.
        * Staff: Adhering to the guidelines sent out in the Storyteller and Highlord documentation, including the staff contract.

***********************

    Priorities:

    The priority list for working in any area of the game, whether it's coding, plots or building, are:

       1. Stability: Increasingly, we're working towards less lag and longer uptimes. Being able to use the testport to test possible crash bugs will move us even further in this direction.
       2. Balance: Making sure code and building do not unbalance the game. Documentation and building like Halaster's template weapons or Krrx's template NPCs assists in this as well.
       3. Consistency: Adhering to the existing documentation. while continuing to expand it. Making code and syntax consistent overall.
       4. Accountability: As listed in exhaustive detail above.
       5. G-Factor: Things that make players go 'Gee-whiz, that's cool!' Anything from a small building detail to a slick piece of code or an inventive, atmospheric plot.

    Not on the list, but valid as long as they adhere to the above.

       1. I read this in a book...
       2. A few years ago...
       3. When I was mortal, we always played it that...

***********************

    Focusing on using/extending what we have:

    Code: The code shouldn't be so specialized. Any spell should be usable as a spice, as a poison, as a psi power, as a skill. And the other way around. We add new skills, and people want more spells, we add more spells, and people want more psi powers. And all of them have bugs and issues of game balance. Focus on using and extending the functionality of what's there.

        * Example: People make requests to see DMPL/Javascript extended here or there, or see fixes in DMPL/Javascript. This is a prime example since they're not asking for a whole new language, just a more stable and usable feature in DMPL/Javascript.
        * Example: Checking the bugs file to look for flaws in your own code, and making sure they get fixed, so the code is fully functional.
        * Example: Expanding the light code and adding color values while fixing it so the room echoes when someone moves in with a light.
        * Example: The gith_gear dmpl, which works with existing merchant code, rather than against it.
        * Example: Having the crafting code often work with forageable objects.
        * Example: All the additions Morgenes has made to the emote code, such as being able to use emotes with objects.

    Plots: Plots need to be followed through on. Starting a new plot is not a solution to leaving another unfinished. Plots, like code, should interact more. Plotts should also try to use what's there, to expand and amplify the existing world and documentation.

        * Example: Daigon doing Byn travel plots, and Keraptis coordinating with BlackMoon raiding plots.
        * Example: Plotts which use past events as a basis, such as Radoon's going to Mal Krian to find *** CENSORED *** there. Plots that ask players to find an item or NPC that is already in the game, rather than specifically built for the occasion.
        * Example: Bhagharva and Talley adding to the arena area, as well as the existing code there, to create the Gladiator RPTs.
        * Example: The plot where the elves & humans fight for territory in the 'rinth. This doesn't involve demons, ancient assassin cults, or anything, and the players are free to explore it and find out what is going on, they can take part, or flee it.
        * Example: Kadius sending people on weekly 'plots' to find items for the stock and warehouses. This makes them interact with the existing world and existing code to get what they need. They feel that there's a benefit to exploring and learning the various markets.

    Building: There's not as large a need for 500 new items, as there is for having the existing database used more.

        * Example: Rotating shop merchandise to get old items out into the game.
        * Example: Going through the existing database to fix old items or make sure they're flagged correctly.
        * Example: Revamping existing areas, such as Krrx did with the Red Desert and the Salt Flats.
        * Example: Making the crafting code work with as many existing objects as possible, rather than building entire new sets.
        * Example: Camps and villages. The wagon code wasn't intended to be used this way, but it is an excellent extension of existing code.
        * Example: Tents. Again, an imaginative, interesting extension of the wagon code which fulfills a player need.
        * Example: Lizards/Birds that are 'alive' that people use as pets. Rather than coding it to allow NPCs to exist within characters.

***********************

Summary: We've always been about quality over quantity; this is only backing up that ideal.

That has been the staff mission statement since long before I came on board in 2005.

Thanks a lot for posting that. It's always good to understand how the staff work and why.

[Semper]

I know everyone is going to hate this analogy, and it's honestly not meant to be condescending, but: as long as you live in your parents' house, you have to live by their rules.  You may not get to pick what's in the fridge or what cable package they have either.  It's their house and their money.

This is almost enough to stop me playing before I get too attached. Even as an vague analogy, I find it incredibly off-putting. I'm not your child; I'm your guest. You invited me here. I need to act appropriately, given it's your house. And you need to act appropriately, given I'm your guest.

If that analogy reflects the attitude of the staff at large regarding the power dynamic between staff and players, I would appreciate being told sooner, rather than later.

I like the guest analogy better than the 'kids at parent's house' analogy. Which is more accurate?

[Doppelganger]

They are staff and we are players, that's the best analogy you can ever get.

/capped accuracy

[deviant storm]

Gah, this whole thread. My tongue is sore, as I've been biting it.

Why? Because a little restraint is needed. Especially over the internet, where politeness seems to be a dirty word and simple manners is a thing forgotten. To me, much of this thread is a tempest in a teapot. I don't see there being so many problems as some people are making out.

Yes, there are issues that need to be addressed. Calmly, with much communication between players and staff. Perhaps threads about 'I left, and here's why' aren't really the best way to go about that.

Once upon a time, I left the game too. For four years. I didn't even read the GDB. One day perhaps I'll go into the reasoning behind it, but not here, not now. The main thing is, I came back. And found the game had changed.

I can understand a little of Bebop's points, but again, I don't think they are such serious issues right now. I am not a person who likes change, yet after keeping an open mind and trying things out, I found much of the changes to be good. I am actually finding myself looking forward to Arm2, this after a time of mourning when I'd heard that one day Arm1 would be no more.

There has been changes, even in my time. I remember being so upset when they lowered the stamina for desert elves nearly in half from what it was. Oh, I was mad about that for a while. There will be changes to come, and not all of them will be agreed with. I don't think we have to worry about player retention so much that we're willing to bend the game's general framework all screwy, or throw too many obstacles in the imms' ways simply because our vision of the game isn't being followed. Arm is fluid, and I have yet to see any change really stop the game cold.

So the imms have their ideas, and we have ours. Sometimes we lose out, sometimes the imms do on seeing plans come to fruition (people die or store their characters sometimes mid-plot). I think middle ground can and has often been achieved in creating these stories we're so fond of.

Bebop, I really do think you may want to consider getting off the GDB as well as the game. Give it a week or so, and do something else. It is only a game, after all. If it's gotten to this point then it's time to go take up basketball or something else. Or cross-stitch. Or something.

And about the cliques? I don't see them. I remember IRC back in the day. I have been to IRC of late. And other places where Arm players gather oocly. Perhaps it's a matter of toning things down a little, to get along. I find that I can only take small doses of any ooc chat/whatever gathering. I do better without getting all worked up about so-and-so not liking me. It's the internet, some people think it's their god-given right to act like an asshole there, so why get worked up if you don't get along with Player X, who's always on IRC/whathaveyou?

[Olgaris]

I know everyone is going to hate this analogy, and it's honestly not meant to be condescending, but: as long as you live in your parents' house, you have to live by their rules.  You may not get to pick what's in the fridge or what cable package they have either.  It's their house and their money.

This is almost enough to stop me playing before I get too attached. Even as an vague analogy, I find it incredibly off-putting. I'm not your child; I'm your guest. You invited me here. I need to act appropriately, given it's your house. And you need to act appropriately, given I'm your guest.

If that analogy reflects the attitude of the staff at large regarding the power dynamic between staff and players, I would appreciate being told sooner, rather than later.

I like the guest analogy better than the 'kids at parent's house' analogy. Which is more accurate?

Use whichever analogy you'd like. The basic idea is that you're more than welcome in our house, we want you in our house. We'll throw a few things you like on the grocery list, but we're not going to change the entire diet we feed our family because a few of our guests only want to eat Ramen noodles.

I'd like to take a moment to share my feelings here, much like Vanth, this is not reflective of any sort of staff consensus, and is more personal observation. As background, I started playing in 2001 (or 2000, I can't remember) and first came on staff in 2005. After about a year, I took about a year and a half hiatus from the game entirely. I came back, played a couple PCs, and then decided I wanted to come back on staff because I really enjoy bringing the world to life on a larger scale. I basically reapplied, before the decided to do another staffing round, and without any fanfare or announcement to the general public at large, started staffing a few clans.

What I'd like to stress to you is that I am first and foremost, a player of this game at heart. Yes, I have the perspective of having worked as an immortal, but I have never felt removed from the plights of players.

I'd like to address is OOC communication, and expectations. Some players expect things out of immortals that are unrealistic. Some players expect that because their characters are movers and shakers, they should always succeed. Some players seem to take it very personally when their plans are met with failure, and immediately start suspecting that the immortals dislike them. As I player, I personally never held this attitude. I've always kept myself fairly removed from the GDB, as I found I started enjoying the game a little less once I started reading it. I've never taken part in the Armageddon chat rooms.

Something I have noticed, and this is not a hard and fast rule, and likely will receive a lot of negative feedback, is that very often the players who whine the most (for lack of better terminology) are the ones who are most involved in OOC communication about the game. It seems from to me that these OOC cliques some players have complained about, are even worse for the immortals. It appears that there are certain groups of players who get together and gripe about the game, and the immortals on an OOC level, and that they feed off one another's negativity, and then direct it at the staff either via e-mail or GDB posts. This is not necessarily a staff observation, it is a personal one. This will also not affect the outcomes of events for these players, although certainly players that are difficult to deal with in e-mail communication are less likely to be given sponsored roles - almost regardless of their roleplay ability.

The reason for this is that sponsored roles require a lot of communication. I'm not going to accept a concept from someone who has repeatedly complained and argued and griped at me because they think their character isn't being treated fairly, or deserves some sort of special treatment.

3. Sometimes people are nasty. There are no rules against being extremely
    mean to others that your character may meet, be it cheating, stealing,
    killing, swindling, or otherwise making a fool out of.  The sole
    exception to this is termed 'the rule of consent', and is outlined
    both in "help consent" and in point 5, below.
4. Complaints of unfairness will not be given an audience. If you think
    your character's situation was unfair, too bad. Live with it or don't.
    See point 2 above.

There aren't a lot of rules in Armageddon. It's worth reading them. They certainly put things back into perspective if you haven't read them for a long time and find yourself in a hissy fit about people being mean to you. The abuse is why I stopped looking for another mud when I found Armageddon. The abuse is what keeps me coming back. The abuse is what makes us so fucking awesome, and other muds suck. We're not a fluffy happy lovely land where people are enchanted and they get along. Zalanthas is a shitty place to live. Zalanthas is kind of like hell. Nobody wants to be there, it's a terrible place full of torture and misery, and the only way you're going to succeed is if you can screw everyone else better than they can screw you. This can help answer many questions as to why certain things happen, and other things don't. Why won't your clan go along with your idea? Because they hate you, and your success will make someone else jealous. Is your superior giving you a rough ride? Yeah, of course they are. Kill them. Do it wisely, and you'll get away with it. Screw up, and you'll get busted. No immortal is going to bust you because they're pissed off you killed a (N)PC that was part of a plot they were running, or they enjoyed watching. The immortal is going to bust you because you screwed up, and someone found out. Or maybe your PC is getting scapegoated by other PCs, and it just so happens that you actually did it.

It really kills me when a character does something in such a way that they're busted for it, and they assume the immortals don't like them, or didn't want them to do such and such, and they are therefore getting busted because of some unfair treatment from the staff. To be blunt: grow up. Immortals are held to high standards. I personally fear Nessalin. Really. I fear him. I am constantly looking over my shoulder, hoping I don't do anything to displease the Overlords. They're nice, but man if you do something stupid and unfair to the players you're going to hear about it. We aren't allowed to design plots to kill players. Generally, we aren't allowed to kill players. If a player does die as a result of our actions, we need to send in a full report immediately. It's like a cop drawing a gun. Cops are reluctant to draw their guns because they know they'll have to fill out a bunch of paper work. Well, I'm not keen on paperwork either, so I don't like to pull my gun out and shoot PCs.

I'd like to make something very clear. Not everyone will believe me, but it really is the truth.

We want to make the game fun for you.

I consider my task, and I am far from alone in this, as making the game as enjoyable as it can be. First and foremost, I bring the world to life. Many times, this results in bad things for PCs, because players tend to have their characters do things that are... well, silly. Do I take pleasure in making the game world spank players? Of course I do! Otherwise I wouldn't be on staff. The thing is, that I as a player, also enjoyed the spankings that I received. I can't remember a single time when due to staff animation my PC came out for the better.

In the past, communications have been lax. As Vanth mentioned, we now get hassled by mudmail if we haven't responded to things within a few days. Every piece of correspondence to or from an immortal needs to be CC'd to the mud. Our clan email addresses are automatically forwarded to the mud. There really isn't any room for an immortal to mess around and screw you for personal spite.

On account notes and karma.

I've heard the line about how you should play for the enjoyment of your character and not for karma. It's true, but meh, sucks. Negative account notes are not a big deal. I'm of the mind we shouldn't give players their account notes, because of how often people complain about negative account notes being unfair, or only half the story. OF COURSE THEY ARE ONLY HALF THE STORY. It's our side of the story. We recognize that, and if players seem to be doing well, negative notes will be ignored when considering karma or sponsored roles. The problem is, it's obvious when to add a negative account note. Someone does something stupid and twinky, we make an account note. What about a good account note? Most players play very well almost all of the time. We can't comment people every day for their awesomeness. Good account notes generally happen in the form of awarded karma, when a PC dies and their clan staffer says "Shit, that person was great" and tosses them a point or two.

Does that mean people are overlooked? Yes, all the time. Should we make some sort of cumbersome karma review process? Some people say yes, but I say HELL NO. Do you want a vivid game world, or karma, or both? I'd say both, so we use the system we do currently. I thought I was being overlooked for karma, I emailed the mud account, and I got karma. I don't think I ever once got karma without emailing. Nobody is going to come down on you for asking for karma. We know we overlook it a lot. So please, ask for karma. Just don't take it too hard if you don't get it. Sometimes we honestly haven't watched you enough to know you deserve it, and it will take watching you a little while to feel comfortable in giving it to you.

In the player staff meeting I shared an account note with you. I'd like to show you some more right now.

Comments:
Added wind_elem for special app. -nessalin 7/22/01
Questionable activity with ****, ignoring NPC's and taking advantage of freedom of the code. 8/1/01 -Savak
Some of teh worst thief abuse I've ever seen, reccomend taking pickpocket away from him. -Bhag
Some pretty good RP as ***** mourning his brother's death.  Commented him on a good job. - Halaster 091101
Letting him try half-giant. -Sanvean
I added stone elementalist to let him try that. -Sanvean
Great RPer when others are around. Very, very poor when alone. -Cerebus  2/03/03
Requested *****'s retirement. -Sanvean  2/16/03
*****l stored at player's request. -Naephet  4/25/03
Set with void_elem for special app. -Naephet  4/27/03
Set with guild: psionicist, for special app. -Naephet  6/25/03
Used all the npcs in the Rinthi bar to attack and kill my npc. Very Lame.  Commented. -Nechomacus 12/16/03
Added Nilazi option for special app approved by Brixius. -Nessalin  7/04/04
Stored *****, do not unstore before 1/1/2005 as per Naiona -Raesanos 11/12/04
Removed templar guild since he's done with it (he emailed in pointing this out) -Raesanos  5/03/05
Added sorcerer option, he looks trustworthy enough. -Tiernan  6/29/05
Set with sorcerer option for special application.  Please remove when character dies. -Naiona  6/29/05
Set for sorcerer one more time after 4 hour long attempt.  Please remove when this character dies. -Naiona  7/03/05
Removed sorcerer option on ******'s death. -Naiona  7/15/05
As is obvious from the scroll you're about to see:  doesn't much mind seeing his characters die.  A lot.  Fast. -Xygax  7/15/05

[CENSORED BECAUSE IT'S TOO RECENT]

Kudos:
kudos received about his rp from account *****. -Sanvean 12/13/02
kudos from account ***** about his rp -Sanvean  2/04/03

Flags : wants_rp_feedback |
Karma : 7

Races : desert_elf | dwarf | elf | half_elf | half_giant | human | mul |
Guilds: assassin | burglar | merchant | pick_pocket | ranger | templar | warrior | fire_elem | water_elem | stone_elem | wind_elem | shadow_elem | lightning_elem | void_elem |
Karma Log:
(null)Sanvean set account ***'s karma to 4.
Cerebus removed 1 karma, making 3 total, for repeated casting with no RP over several days despite comment.
Sanvean set account ****'s karma to 5, Doing fine. -  1/07/04.
Sanvean set account ****'s karma to 6, I trust him to play well. -  8/24/04.
Xygax added 1 karma, making 7 total, for very honest and trustworthy player, from what I've seen, in spite of a latent tendency to skillmax a bit - 11/14/04.

Wow... Look at all those shitty account notes. Having never requested my account notes, I was shocked when I got on staff and saw them. I was amazed they let me on staff, and amazed I had any karma at all. The note about killing the a PC with NPCs in a bar I actually explained in an e-mail, and there wasn't even a note saying anything about it! Did it matter? No! I hope it helps show you that bad account notes aren't the end of the world. My saving grace is that I didn't involve myself in inappropriate OOC communication, and I was always polite in e-mails, and provided full and accurate updates when required. Someone previously in this thread said that were purposely withholding information from their staff because they didn't want it leaked through an NPC. That's not going to go over well. It will only be leaked through a NPC if it should have been leaked through a NPC. Withholding info from your staff because you don't want to have the game world react appropriately to your character's actions is not a valid excuse, and not going to win you friends. You have to always remember that the staff are not out to get you. Sometimes the staff will make mean things happen to your character, but that's because it is our job, and it should happen. If it didn't happen, the game would suck. Seriously.

I don't have a real culmination to this post. There's no main focus or point. I joined in the griping for once, I suppose. When I read some of the criticisms against the staff I agree, but for the most part I am amazed by people's expectations, and how worked up they get about things. I guess a final thought that I'd like to leave you with is that you shouldn't rely on staff for your enjoyment of the game. I never did, and I've always continued to enjoy the game. There is so much awesome stuff you can do without the staff it's ridiculous. The staff aren't sponsoring new clans, but there's no reason you need staff to start a clan. Your PC can start a clan. Sure it won't have a history woven into the game from the get-go, but that just means you get to create that history, and that's way cooler, and way more satisfying in the end.

[Agent_137]

• Players are not entitled to anything. this is a free service provided by the Imms.


• Therefore, Players can truly do only three things: express their opinions (thank you bebop), keep playing (thank you current players), stop playing (thank you bebop.)


• Therefore, if the Imms consistently ignore player wishes and opinions, the population of the game will drop. A small community like this is even more susceptible to this effect.


• Therefore, everything has appropriate checks and balances by its very nature.


• Therefore, I rarely read threads of this nature or have any real concern about the contents. it will all work itself out regardless of my thoughts on the subject. My opinion outside this logic can only based purely on hearsay from other players in the thread and is thus completely irrelevant.

So i will hopefully see you ON THE FIELD OF BATTLE, FOR LOVE OF THE GAME.

[Olgaris]

• Players are not entitled to anything. this is a free service provided by the Imms.


• Therefore, Players can truly do three things: express their opinions (thank you bebop), keep playing (thank you current players), stop playing (thank you bebop.)


• Therefore, if the Imms consistently ignore player wishes and opinions, the population of the game will drop. A small community like this is even more susceptible to this effect.


• Therefore, everything has appropriate checks and balances by its very nature.


• Therefore, I rarely read threads of this nature or have any real concern about the contents. it will all work itself out regardless of my thoughts on the subject. My opinion outside this logic can only based purely on hearsay from other players in the thread and is thus completely irrelevant.

So i will hopefully see you ON THE FIELD OF BATTLE, FOR LOVE OF THE GAME.

Wow. You could have saved me a lot of thought and typing if you had posted this a little earlier and I could have just quoted it.

[Agent_137]

hahah, For what it's worth, i did start before yours was posted. But your account notes are sure worth a LOL.

[Xygax]

As is obvious from the scroll you're about to see:  doesn't much mind seeing his characters die.  A lot.  Fast. -Xygax  7/15/05

Sometimes, I give myself a little giggle when I read old account-notes I've made.

This was one of those times.

-- X

[brytta.leofa]

Negative account notes are not a big deal. I'm of the mind we shouldn't give players their account notes, because of how often people complain about negative account notes being unfair, or only half the story. OF COURSE THEY ARE ONLY HALF THE STORY. It's our side of the story. We recognize that, and if players seem to be doing well, negative notes will be ignored when considering karma or sponsored roles. The problem is, it's obvious when to add a negative account note. Someone does something stupid and twinky, we make an account note. What about a good account note? Most players play very well almost all of the time. We can't comment people every day for their awesomeness. Good account notes generally happen in the form of awarded karma, when a PC dies and their clan staffer says "Shit, that person was great" and tosses them a point or two.

As an occasionally hypersensitive player, this was very very helpful to read.  Thanks.

Xygax added 1 karma, making 7 total, for very honest and trustworthy player, from what I've seen, in spite of a latent tendency to skillmax a bit - 11/14/04.

And, because it has to be said:

[Cavaticus]

I'm going to post my account notes as well, as a means of addressing concerns about OOC cliques and their supposed "necessity" if you want to get anywhere.

Adhira set account ******* karma to 1, consistent effort and reporting with ****** pc - 11/02/05.

Halaster set account *******  karma to 2, A good job, overall, with ****** Sticks to the role consistently, even under duress. -  5/08/06.

Sanvean set account ******* karma to 3, Seems about due to me. -  4/04/07.


Stored at player's request, do not unstore. -Morgenes  1/24/05
Using sap to begin normal sparring, no emotes as to say how he's doing it when his opponent knows he's about to attack AND can see him clearly. -Dynas 2/11/05
Owes Migra (templarate spy) in the barrel a favor for losing at darts -Dakurus 3/20/05
Received acct notes -Raesanos  5/10/05
Stored *******  player wanted less restrictive role. -Nessalin  5/14/05
Approached vennant about *******, got told no. He proceeded to insult vennant then. -Ashyom 6/19/05
Doing well with the ******* side of things, not so active in the ******* department -Adhira 11/02/05
sTored *******  at player's request. -Nessalin 11/03/05
Requested and received account notes. -Sanvean 11/09/05
Helped a new player, which I appreciated. -Sanvean 2/16/06
Requested and received account notes -Halaster  5/17/06
Received very nice kudos from Barzalene on menacing play with *******  -Naiona  9/13/06
rec'd kudos from acct *******  for play as *******  -Vanth 11/09/06
received kudos for *******  from *******  -Djarjak  1/29/07
Requested and received account notes. -Sanvean  4/04/07
Rec'd kudos for play as *******  -Vanth  8/09/07

I had a few other notes afterwards, but that's because I briefly continued playing my mortal character after coming on as staff. Those are the complete sum of my account notes before coming on staff. All three of my karma bumps only came after requesting my account notes (you can cross-reference the dates). I never communicated OOCly with any staff before coming on myself and I think that I had three players on my AIM list.

Now, I'm not saying it's bad to talk to folks outside the game, but there is zero need to inundate yourself in any kind of ooc Armageddon culture to "get ahead."

[Jingo]

In all this time I think I've had only four account notes and four karma. And heaps of dead characters.

Hmmm. Maybe I should turn the review flag on.

I want to say that it's responses by the staff like these that puts a player like me at ease.

[Shalooonsh]

In all this time I think I've had only four account notes and four karma. And heaps of dead characters.

Hmmm. Maybe I should turn the review flag on.

I want to say that it's responses by the staff like these that puts a player like me at ease.

Not saying that you have not, Jingo, but what really helps generate notes (both positive and negative) are your direct interactions with staff.  Emails, reports, complaints, anything of that nature.  The more visible you are to us, the more we know about you, and the more we'll put you on the radar for other staff members via your account notes.

Some absolutely awesome players are out there who completely fly under the radar because they never bump elbows or share thoughts with staff.

I'd post my account notes, but apparently (with two exceptions) they only saw the good stuff, so it doesn't make much of a point to do so.

[Olgaris]

To support Cavaticus' last point:

OOC cliques are more likely to hinder your trust level with immortals than help you get things. Sharing of IC information is the absolute worst thing you can do in the minds of the staff (I'm fairly sure I speak for all of us on this one). If we know you're part of a 'clique' then we're that much more wary that you might be sharing info that shouldn't be shared.

As a rule of thumb, when communicating with your fellow players off of the GDB, don't talk about Armageddon. If it wouldn't fly on the GDB, it shouldn't be said. Everyone would have a lot more fun if people would self-censor themselves to GDB appropriate discussion material.

[manonfire]

• Players are not entitled to anything. this is a free service provided by the Imms.


• Therefore, Players can truly do only three things: express their opinions (thank you bebop), keep playing (thank you current players), stop playing (thank you bebop.)


• Therefore, if the Imms consistently ignore player wishes and opinions, the population of the game will drop. A small community like this is even more susceptible to this effect.


• Therefore, everything has appropriate checks and balances by its very nature.


• Therefore, I rarely read threads of this nature or have any real concern about the contents. it will all work itself out regardless of my thoughts on the subject. My opinion outside this logic can only based purely on hearsay from other players in the thread and is thus completely irrelevant.

So i will hopefully see you ON THE FIELD OF BATTLE, FOR LOVE OF THE GAME.

FOR GREAT JUSTICE IN THIS, THE AGE OF THE INTERNET.

[X-D]

I have been staying away from this thread, But Olgaris posted and I would like to back up one point.

We aren't allowed to design plots to kill players. Generally, we aren't allowed to kill players. If a player does die as a result of our actions, we need to send in a full report immediately. It's like a cop drawing a gun

In the past I have had a player here and there do the "OMG, IMMS ARE TRYING TO KILL ME!" Or "Fucking IMMS killed my PC, I'm gonna complain!'

I tell them that half the time it is not even staff, it is some nifty script, and the rest of the time...Well...In every single staff event I have seen or heard of, (cept for one in which the staffer later admitted to a mistake) that ended in PC death or deaths, there was a way out that the player neglected to take.

In other words, In all my years of play, I have only witnessed 1 single case where the PC was not given the option to survive. In all other cases the option was there and the player neglected to take it. Which means, that it is the players fault not the staff.

[Jdr]

Karma doesn't worry me overmuch. If I want to do a role I just send in a special app. I don't even ever take into consideration what karma level I have. Either they like the concept and think I can pull off the concept in an interesting way for myself and others around me, or I can't.

[Fathi]

Some players seem to take it very personally when their plans are met with failure, and immediately start suspecting that the immortals dislike them. As I player, I personally never held this attitude.

Olgaris, this is one point that I wanted to bring up simply because I wonder if it might not be a misconception.

I think you're misinterpreting the reasons why a lot of players assume certain staff members don't like them, and that the cause, rather than a player's plans being met with failure, is more in the tone staff members use.

I've received emails from staff members that have been very professional, encouraging, helpful, lighthearted, amusing, rapid, and emails that have done a good job of explaining why staffers do the things they do or why they view certain things (documentation, rules, etc.) differently than I do.

... Unfortunately, on the flip side, I've also received emails from staffers that have been sarcastic, rude, chiding, accusatory, and others that merely had a negative tone that made me wonder why I bothered writing reports or asking questions of said staffer in the first place.

I freely admit that any negative responses to my emails could very well have been a result of the staff member in question perceiving a negative tone in the email I originally sent, but there were definitely a few instances where it felt like I just ended up on somebody's "bad side" and their email interactions with me were truncated and snarky.

Of course, the negative tone in emails is far, far, FAR outweighed by my communications with the immortals that have been helpful and professional, but I was just pointing out that it's easy to develop an attitude that Staff Member X doesn't like you or doesn't like the clan they're staffing when your interactions with them are consistently snippy and negative.

It's a given that, as a staff member on Arm, sometimes you will have to write emails about touchy, "bad" subject matter. A lot of the emails I've gotten about such subjects have been completely deserved on my part, especially back when I was a whippersnapper. However, a "bad" email ("say, we noticed you made a character that immediately ended up working for your old boss, boning your old girlfriend, and renting your old apartment...") doesn't have to be overwhelmingly negative or accusatory in tone.

Not that most staff members don't already do this quite well, but I think it explains a lot more about why some players insist that some staff members don't like them rather than merely "i tried to tame that mek and Olgaris wouldn't let me and it bit me instead! he must be out to get me!"

[Clearsighted]

For some reason, reading Olgaris' post and account notes makes me feel much better about the game. Hard to explain.

[Olgaris]

Fathi:

A little known fact, that we're discussing right now as immortals, is that you can go to a Highlord or Overlord with a complaint about a staff member, and they'll actually resolve it neutrally. If a storyteller is a jerk, go to a Highlord, if a Highlord is a jerk, go to one of the Overlords. If one of the Overlords is a jerk... Maybe you need to be told what you're hearing, or maybe you need to look at whether or not you actually need whatever it is dealt with to continue enjoying the game. The point is, there are ways to resolve problems that you perceive, and we're working out a way to make that more obvious.

[Winterless]

Okay, I've kept really quiet, mainly because this whole thread just makes me want to roll my eyes.

I understand that some of you may not be happy with what you are seeing. I, myself, have had those times where the game, ooc, imms, and whatnot have gotten very frustrating to me and made me step back from the game. But after a lot of thought the last couple months about everything the game entails, RL, and putting everything in perspective, I am now at a happier place. A happier place, that is, until things like this thread pop up.

Threads like this, for me at least, give an overall feeling of "blah" and affects not only my feelings about the GDB, but the game as well. For the most part I've stayed away from this thread because I feel it will only help to bring my thoughts and feelings about the game down. Already, since the several backlashes from the community on the GDB, I have taken a step back from this channel to prevent unnecessary bad feelings towards anyone or anything involved with the game. And then when I think about what this thread could do to the mindset of new players that kind of upsets me. Yes, you disagree with some things or don't like the way things are going, but also think about those new players who are still forming their opinion about the game before you post a thread like this or respond "loudly" to a thread like this.

In my job we are taught that, for the average person, it takes twelve positive interactions to correct one bad one. A thread like this puts those bad thoughts into another players mind, even a player who has never had any problems before. Just like if you were to have issues with your cable company or cell phone company, you go and you tell everyone you know about your bad experience. That, in-turn, affects those current or future customers of those companies. It sticks that little piece in their mind about your bad experience, and the first time anything even miniscule that comes up that isn't right, they connect to your experience and it expands... "Well this happened to so-and-so and now look what's happening to me, I'm going to cancel."

So, in closing and my point, just be careful what you post. This is a large community, and what you say -does- impact others.

[RogueGunslinger]

For some reason, reading Olgaris' post and account notes makes me feel much better about the game. Hard to explain.